Advertising or trading threads?

[ammo]

commercial considerations

(edited by JumpOff)

i have no problem with the commercial leans on th e site it might be a dvantageous but the butting of heads for the sake of flapping an ego that doesnt get out enough other than this forum is a selfish and tiresome practice for all who visit here please keep it positive life always throws you a slant from the unkown this should be home because we chose to come here please clean it up check your egos at the door lifes short dont make it unpleasant too . sorry but this pisses me off

 

[JumpOff]

Hi folks,
As some of you know, much of our best content comes from those who don't dabble in this as a hobby.

The new vendor's mark is not intended to be a badge of shame.

On the contrary! If you have managed to get other folks to pay you for your ideas or your time, you have most likely separated yourself from the chaff in a way that is obvious to those who are willing to part with their cash.

Our goal is to have quality content, and to present it in a manner that is transparent. The new vendor choices are in a drop list at the bottom of your user profile page. 2 clicks and you are done. Doesn't have to be a big deal.

JO

P.S. Woe onto the very few of you who are selling worthless systems to fools who don't know better.

 

[TheBramble]

On the contrary! If you have managed to get other folks to pay you for your ideas or your time, you have most likely separated yourself from the chaff in a way that is obvious to those who are willing to part with their cash.

JO - that was an uncharacteristically foolish statement for you to make.

Being a vendor in no way automatically elevates any member to the status you describe.

Managing to 'get folk to pay you for your ideas or time' means you've been able to get folk to pay you for your ideas or time. Nothing more and nothing less and not necessarily a function of either trading ability or service/product quality.

Their being 'willing to part with their cash' - it quite a different story to them having been happy to have done so in retrospect. Which is why a reviews forum is such a necessary and useful opportunity to get that vital feedback.

For all of us 'chaff' who don't treat trading as a hobby, but by some miracle, manage, somehow, to make enough not to need to sell anything to anyone else, the quality content is evident in the posts made.

 

[barjon]

i have no problem with the commercial leans on th e site it might be a dvantageous but the butting of heads for the sake of flapping an ego that doesnt get out enough other than this forum is a selfish and tiresome practice for all who visit here please keep it positive life always throws you a slant from the unkown this should be home because we chose to come here please clean it up check your egos at the door lifes short dont make it unpleasant too . sorry but this pisses me off

ammo

I do hope this was just a general comment you were making and not aimed at racer (it was her post you quoted) since that would be completely unwarranted and unjust.

good trading

jon

 

[LevII]

Hi folks,
The new vendor's mark is not intended to be a badge of shame.

P.S. Woe onto the very few of you who are selling worthless systems to fools who don't know better.

My suggestions, for what they may be worth, to those considering being separated from their cash.

1. Do not take at face value anything the vendor tells you either by posting material on this or any other forum or in emails etc. If you saw an advertisement selling a product guaranteed to extend your life by 200 years coupled with youthfulness throughout would you part with the £1,000 asked for it without making a few sensible enquiries? JO appears of the view that only the very few sell worthless material - don't take that at face value either - assume it is rather more than that and hope for a pleasant surprise.

2. Where a vendor says he will teach you to trade as he trades ask to see a copy of his trading accounts for the last 12 months. If he will not show them to you, look elsewhere. You are, after all, entitled to check his claims and credentials in an objective way.

3. If you are considering a seminar or 1-2-1 session of coaching or the like ask the vendor (assuming he has by now shown you his trading account) whether or not he will be demonstrating in live trading with real money (his real money) what he has taught. If not, walk away.

4. If the vendor is selling books, CDs, systems etc etc just ask yourself the question "if it really is that good why is he selling it?" Again, ask for brokerage accounts.

5. In all cases, If the vendor publishes 'unsolicited testimonials from delighted users' ask to be put in contact with the authors. Similarly, if posters on web fora sing the praises of a vendor - get in touch with them. If they are sincere they will assist you.

Best of luck to you all.

 

[TheBramble]

LevII - you know I know you know I know where you're coming from, but I to be fair, books don't cost that much compared with trainings. They have already (for the most part) undergone a trial by fire before a publisher decides to commit their resource to publish it and even in the worst trading book I've ever read - I've still got something useful out of it. And you can always put a book down. You can't do that with a trainer. Unfortunately. 😆 😆 😆

I also suspect asking authors for copies of their trading accounts before agreeing to purchase their book would slow Amazon down to some extent.... 😎

To expect a coach/trainer/mentor to use real money while tutoring is a little extreme. Maybe there are some that can teach AND trade effectively at the same time. I couldn't. And I'm totally amazingly brilliant. While demonstrating what is being taught using live data would be ideal confirmation of technique - the market ain't always going to oblige with whatever setup, methods etc they're teaching. It would be unfair to judge a good trainer on a bad market day. Few would appreciate that NOT taking trades that day was as important (more important!) as taking them on a good day.

Apart from that, I figure your other points are spot on.

 

[LevII]

LevII - you know I know you know I know where you're coming from, but I to be fair, books don't cost that much compared with trainings. They have already (for the most part) undergone a trial by fire before a publisher decides to commit their resource to publish it and even in the worst trading book I've ever read - I've still got something useful out of it. And you can always put a book down. You can't do that with a trainer. Unfortunately. 😆 😆 😆

I also suspect asking authors for copies of their trading accounts before agreeing to purchase their book would slow Amazon down to some extent.... 😎

To expect a coach/trainer/mentor to use real money while tutoring is a little extreme. Maybe there are some that can teach AND trade effectively at the same time. I couldn't. And I'm totally amazingly brilliant. While demonstrating what is being taught using live data would be ideal confirmation of technique - the market ain't always going to oblige with whatever setup, methods etc they're teaching. It would be unfair to judge a good trainer on a bad market day. Few would appreciate that NOT taking trades that day was as important (more important!) as taking them on a good day.

Apart from that, I figure your other points are spot on.

I've not made myself clear as usual!

Proper books - good value for money, just buy selectively. I would not part with any of mine.

Live trading - I have recently sat and watched a real trader trade. He is not and does not pretend to be a coach. His fee for the day (10.00 am to about 8.00 pm) was £250 paid to Christian Aid. So relaxed is he in the effectiveness of his methods he would place a trade when the time was right then turn away from his screens to explain what was happening. He expected me, following earlier discussion about how it was done, to watch out for when exit time approached and tell him. Even doing it like that he made money ($800 from memory) which he doubled or trebled in the hour following my leaving.

If he can do it then I'm sure our real HOT professional trader / coaches can do the same - or can they? That is why a punter ought to expect a real demonstration and sight of the trading account.

If people do not want to look after their own interests then, as always, that is a matter for them.

LII

 

[Aegist]

Hi guys,
As a very very junior member here and someone who actually came to this website in all honesty as a way of finding more people who might be interested in Sports Betting Arbitrage, I have a question concerning these changes.

I have a website, and as I hope to oneday make money from it through advertising, I would call it 'commercial'. However my website is not a sales site for my trading course, or my strategy. there is nothing that I am selling and there is nothing to register for, it is just information about Sports Betting Arbitrage: What it is, ho it works, hints tips, alert services available for it etc.

Till now I think I have had a link to my website in my signature. Is this the sort of thing which is no longer allowed? It is my website, I have an interest in it, but usually if I ever refer to it, it is because it is poignent to the conversation and I will point to directly relevent information.

So in short: SIgnature links: Yes no?
On topic references to your own non-product information website: Yes no?

Thanks

Shane

 

[Aegist]

And for that matter: My avatar: yes no? 😀

 

[frugi]

Aegist first of all thank you for your honesty and obvious wish to do the right thing. If only all vendors were like you. 🙂 Your questions are also very pertinent given the changes recently made. I would be the first to admit that despite the revised guidelines the new stance on advertising has not been forward tested and as such not every issue is going to be covered in a black-and-white manner. Your questions raise a couple of such grey areas.

We appreciate that there is a difference between a full-on commercial site that directly sells trading-related products or services (e.g. a system vendor) and one that does not sell anything of the sort, yet may still (in the future) benefit from traffic, e.g by way of adverts.

However for the moment at least, both these types do unfortunately fall under "commercial web site" and as such even the most modest hobbyist or blogger who stands to make £0.84 from Google ads per year is still considered as a vendor. The administrators are currently discussing ways of making this situation a little fairer and clear up any confusion, perhaps by way of a new vendor category or different icon.

To answer your questions. I'm afraid links in signatures are not allowed. Actually they never were. The guidelines are fairly strict on this matter:

"It is not permitted to use the signatures to advertise. Signatures may not include any link, identifiable URL or Email address."

(Although very occasionally links to worthy nonprofit organisations are allowed to stay, at the moderators' discretion).

On topic references to your own non-product information website? Yes, no worries there, as long as you are not doing so merely to promote it. Obviously this is a matter of discretion for the moderators too, as one man's cynical promotion may be another's useful information. If you were, say, a trading system vendor and you kept mentioning your site then that would be out of order. But if the site, as yours does, contains only free information, then I see no harm in mentioning it whenever it is pertinent to the discussion.

Avatars: Hmm. Glad you pointed this out. Having quick checked the guidelines I can see no reference to them, which will have to be updated. But I also know that when someone's avatar has proudly displayed "4000 pips per month www.leechfleecer.com" fights have broken out between the mods to see who can delete it first. So, for the moment it's gotta be no, not allowed, sorry. I have had a look at your web site and I understand that there is little commercial about it (yet), but at least you still have the www button for people to have a look at it.

Sorry to sound so harsh and thanks once again for raising some useful questions. As ever site policies are organic and can be changed as we gain practical experience of them. Feedback is very useful in this regard.

 

[Aegist]

No worries. Maybe I didn't have a linked signature before then. I haven't changed it since the changes and I don't have one now. I just usually do. I frequent a lot of different forums.

I'll change my avatar to a more boring one then 😀

Shane

 

[Sharky]

We've updated the vendor badge. There was a feeling that the old one was too elaborate and made the forums look like we were turning the community into a marketplace! When that was never our intention.

The point is simply to make member aware the poster has some sort of commercial interest - and this should be taken into account when reading their posts. Of course, many people using T2W are from the industry and we encourage their participation. Just because they have the badge, doesn't mean they can't participate in the forums like any other member and you can't assume that the commercial interest has any influence on what they post. It's just there for the benefit of members so they have all the facts to make up their own opinion on the views of a poster - we want to keep everything as transparent as possible. And as always advertising is strictly prohibited. We certainly are not a marketplace!

The new vendor tag is a fruit 'n veg stall, and appears as as smaller version of:

See Aegist's post above to see what it looks like in action - remember, if you mouse-over the image, then it tells you what their commercial interest is, ie. they might run a website, or signal service etc.

 

[dbphoenix]

And if the membership doesn't approve, there's always . . .

 

[Rhody Trader]

Well done Paul. I think that is a big improvement. The previous version definitely grabbed your attention.

 

[sandpiper]

Well done Paul. I think that is a big improvement. The previous version definitely grabbed your attention.

Rhody,

You are absolutely correct, the last thing we would want is an attention grabbing 'tag' for our vendor colleagues. Perhaps we could go a stage further and use an invisible ink version. 🙂

 

[sandpiper]

......yes and maybe we could buy the lemon juice for the ink from dbs from fruit and veg stall 😛

Yes, quite, and whilst you're at it can I have:

2 lbs bananas,
1 bag seedless grapes,
1 bag of spuds,
2 dozen oranges.

Plus a copy of your widely acclaimed 'Food from the Wild' please Mr. Burrows.

 

[sandpiper]

......then of course theres always the shot of you on the way to the bank.....with daily market takings in hand....meaning fruit and veg sales.... :cheesy:

And then on the way back.....

 

[sandpiper]

...or out on a friday night....as bent as a banana... :cheesy:

and on a saturday morning the worse for wear......

 

[dbphoenix]

Rhody,

You are absolutely correct, the last thing we would want is an attention grabbing 'tag' for our vendor colleagues. Perhaps we could go a stage further and use an invisible ink version. 🙂

......yes and maybe we could buy the lemon juice for the ink from dbs new fruit and veg stall 😛

Yes, quite, and whilst you're at it can I have:

2 lbs bananas,
1 bag seedless grapes,
1 bag of spuds,
2 dozen oranges.

Plus a copy of your widely acclaimed 'Food from the Wild' please Mr. Burrows.

......then of course theres always the shot of you on the way to the bank.....with daily market takings in hand....meaning fruit and veg sales.... :cheesy:

...whats the cheapest fruit on t2w....mongoes....cause there always in season... high in supply....low in demand....see must always think in terms of price and volume..:cheesy:

And don't forget the sour grapes (with seeds), a mainstay of your diets . . . 🙂

 

[sandpiper]

And don't forget the sour grapes (with seeds), a mainstay of your diets . . . 🙂

... they don't stock one of those costumes down my local fancy dress, but thanks for the suggestion 🙂