Advertising or trading threads?

hmmm,Dangerfield but some of the suggestions may well lead to improvements for the site, whereby constant gaining new members will have greater clarity , no ambiguity heading into a commercial threads section hosted by members who wish to trawl commercial hooks for their efforts, and as you say" Nobody is clear as to what is allowed by who or where any longer" Let us have the freedom for members to push views out there in order to possibly facilitate the transition from darkness to light in such matters.

I do not read this thread as moaning just debate or discussion , perception as always ...

cheers

fx.
 
Danger Field said:
Trade2win is moving from the nice little British free site you once knew into the 21st century and getting real. Do yourself a favour and get real along with them.Leave the site to the owners to market any way they want. That is what they do for a living - not trading.
I think most of them are traders?

Danger Field said:
If it all gets too much for you - jump ship. There are enough sites out there that will be happy to take the disheartened, the disgruntled and the plain unhappy with trade2win.

I joined the site to learn, and discuss trading. How to trade, what to look for, whats important and relevant, listen to others ideas, take on knowledge from the more experienced, allow relief from the stress and boredom and for general banter with other traders as I trade from home, and do not mix with other traders during working hours.

I still have a way to go and there are threads here that are very useful and members definately worth listening too. Looking back a year or two ago this was a 'trading community', now it is a commercial business, I for one see very little I can gain from the members left who are only after paying punters. Most of the older members who kindly contributed their knowledge have left and gaining helpful knowledge is now few and far between.

The threads in question which are totally obvious plugs for their own business or employers business, whilst are all fine and good, impart no knowledge to anyone unwilling to pay for their services. Whilst there is nothing wrong with these threads they should be placed in the correct section, ie 'vendors', as that is what they are. I don't begrudge Sharky from earning a living but it should be made clear from as early as possible, why people are really posting.
 
Danger Field said:
Trade2win is moving from the nice little British free site you once knew into the 21st century and getting real.
Shame. Look at what has happened to the ones that got real.
 
Okay the way I see it, what's permitted in the forums should be down to what *you*, the members, want. It's a question of whether we should permit threads that provide some genuine value or educational merit, but in which the poster has an underlying commercial interest. And whether if we do permit them then they simply need to be clearly marked as such. Basically whatever the consensus wants I'm happy to enforce.

FYI. No deals have been struck with anyone, no back-handers or anything like that. T2W has never profited either directly or implicitly from threads posted on the forum (except the existing T2W Sponsor Announcements which has hardly ever been used). If someone is advertising on the site, that doesn't give them any additional leverage as to what can be posted in the forums.

I'm aware that there are at least a couple of threads that have been permitted which have triggered this debate . There wasn't a conscious decision by myself or anyone else to relax or even change the site guidelines, more simply a perception that people had a genuine interest in the threads and without concerns being expressed to the contrary then no harm appeared to be done. Obviously this thread throws up those concerns and consequently it's time to deal with them and ask the members what they want - and that's what we'll do. Simple as that.
 
It would be good if the advertising threads were moved to an advertising forum ;)
 
Sharky said:
There wasn't a conscious decision by myself or anyone else to relax or even change the site guidelines
OK then Paul, must have been a miscommunication...

i've been held back from posting what i actualy do day in day out. I just got the green light to run a thread telling people just exactly what i do. Some of that involves a commercial web site
...or two...

Just so that everyone who is reading this thread is aware, Alan et al have our permission to post here.
[...]
We (T2W) have asked Alan (and others who post on the boards regarding US stocks or similar) to keep the mentions of their respective businesses to a minimum

...as these statements do not reflect current site guidelines which are quite explicit in relation to advertising.
 
Not a problem, if that's what members want. We're taking about threads where there is a percieved commercial interest whether explicitly or implicitly given but where there is also percieved educational value to members. Blatant advertising or spam threads are already removed immediately. Unfortunately it's not always black and white, and we're talking about the grey area.

For the purposes of this debate I shall refer to the grey area outlined about as threads with a commercial interest (when there is some perceived educational value).

We could either:

a) Simply allow all threads with a commercial interest
b) Move such threads to a forum labelled appropriately
c) Label posters with a commercial interest as such (for example, with the title 'Vendor') - could be combined with a) or b)
d) Remove any thread with a commercial interest.
 
Tony, basically what I'm saying is we didn't sit around and come to a decision to change the site guidelines. Sure, any changes, however they came about, should have probably been discussed first and approved by a consensus of the members and then the site guidelines updated accordingly. In this regard I failed to do that and will take the flack for it. But it's heartening to see people feel sufficiently passionate about this issue to debate it in this thread, and that gives me a renewed impetus to do things by the book in the future.
 
I've moved this back to the General Trading Chat as it's been suggested more people are likely to contribute to this thread if it appears on the front page - I'm fine with that. I'll move it back to Feedback once people have had sufficient time to air their views.
 
trappertom said:
B and C with a permanent ban for vendors who don't declare themselves as such.

B and C and possibly in the name of decency

e) immediate ban of the number 69 - soixante-neuf
:cheesy:
 
B and C or something like this.... as a visual aid... er type thing :p
 

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Not worth doing

I started off thinking I would agree with the others (B and C), however on reflection I think this will prove impractical because:

(1) Although there will be clear exceptions e.g. Interactive Brokers thread, it will be difficult to police. Any one of us could mention our favourite broker, alert service, software etc and who's to say whether or not we are vendors/representatives of vendors/employees etc

How many times or under what conditions would the so-called advertising have to take place to warrant title of vendor. Having said that, if we could decide on clear criteria, this would be the only option I would favour i.e. label the poster as a vendor

I should add at this point, that I have no connection with any vendor of any trading product whatsoever.

(2) Moving vendors threads to another forum would require sub-forums otherwise it will be difficult to find the subject area you are interested in

(3) The problems do not come from respected members such as Naz who openly declare their vendor connections and who don't necessarily post with their vendor's hat on. The problems come from what I call "One-posters", who suddenly appear with the briefest of messages saying "look at this - it's the geatest thing since sliced bread". These are so easy to spot in any case

I just do not think it is worth the considerable extra trouble for the Mods to implement such a system. There are enough of us who can police the site and alert the mods in any case or post that we suspect this person is a vendor. I have done this myself from time-to-time and they tend to disappear rapidly once they have been "outed"

Charlton
 
I'm definitely in favour of labelling vendors with a highly visible icon or user title. A good idea to include type of commercial interest in their profile as well. I imagine this should be done automatically at registration for new members and retrofitted for current ones. Bring on the vendor amnesty. :)

Vendors should benefit from this too as there will no longer be any cause for snide remarks regarding their possible commercial interests (as any interests will be open and declared for all to see). Any vendor found to be hiding their interests ("Don't brand me with the red V" :) ) should receive short shrift.

This seems to me to be a no-brainer.

However, the designated forum idea is more difficult to implement and I am against it. Charlton has touched on some of the reasons why. It will introduce more levels of grey and confusion because then T2W has to decide which threads should be put in a special forum. What is the essential quality of a thread (one that can be encapsulated clearly in the site guidelines) that renders it suitable for inclusion? One post by a vendor? Two? Fifteen? Quite hard to pin down the distinction, I would think.

Perhaps there is some cause for a designated forum for threads that are started by a vendor(s) and in which the majority of the posts are by that vendor(s), with their ultimate intention obviously being the attraction of business, even though they are not overtly advertising anything specific. But again, even this 'extreme' category of thread would be quite hard to codify into concrete rules.

Either way, I certainly wouldn't put every single thread to which a vendor contributes into a special forum as the site would become absurdly fragmented. T2W would virtually need two of everything. e.g US Stocks - no vendors .... US Stocks - vendors

(If the vendor forum route is taken, imho a new one should be created as the existing Resources one is not very suitable, seeing as it is for members to talk about vendors / commercial resources.)

I also think that regardless of how popular or useful threads with underlying commercial intent may be, there is no reason to slacken policy on advertising within them. As we have seen, this can lead to confusion as to what is allowed and accusations of selective application of guidelines. Adverts of any kind should stay strictly off the boards (and not travel by PM either).

Thus imho commercial products and other services provided by vendors should never be mentioned unless a member asks a specific question about such a product or service. Thus, posting commercial chat room transcripts, for instance, would probably be a no-no (sorry I didn't mean to single that out, it was just a practical example of something "grey" current on the site) and [repeated] mentions of a product by name definitely a no-no.

---

OR - If vendors wish to run threads in a new vendor forum laced with advertisments then perhaps they should pay T2W to use the new forum and the guidelines could be changed to reflect this more obvious distinction? A bit like the sponsored one already in place. But I rather hope this route isn't taken as one of the joys of this site is not having to wade through adverts at every turn.

---

I'd also like to echo Charlton in saying that, though I may sound a little hard on them, vendors who are up front about their interests and also professional traders can and do add a lot of value to the site and I would hate to see them driven away purely because members do not like them selling as well as trading. If T2W can sort the transparency issue once and for all, we should all be able to coexist peacefully and continue to share information, which is what the site is all about.
 
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I think the current running threads in question or quite obvious.
 
hmmm, could be good for vendors too if they somehow ? could be Verified....... I would of thought it in their interest if vendoring is their thing to meet verification standards ,rookies then using the service or reading "Vendor thread adds" will at least know that T2w admin have been shown say a year or so Actual trading results Points ok....this can be easily backed by a professional ACCA signature or something if they wish....

Not mandatory but a choice for the vendor , would be good or better add for themselves or service offered etc and good form in openly promoting future selling services. this is of course only if the site owners like the idea of their site offering vendor verified standards to perhaps the newests of learners and the such who may well see the verification as a least a step in the right direction for promoting traders selling services etc.

voluntary verification.... good on ya..... maybe its one of those things makes great sense but...

fx.
 
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