Best Thread £10k wipeout

[Lee Shepherd]

hi all,

thanks for all your comments. not logged in for a while.

I took 6 months off trading to clear my head and get over the loss, - the money is gone. the wife forgave me luckily.

then I did a few weeks demo trading and recently setup another live account with a small amount. I traded for 5 weeks but eventually was wiped out once again. my account was too small for the trade size and I have realised I was risking upto 10% per trade - too much !

still, I feel I am paying attention to indicators, stops, risk/reward now so I feel to be on my way in the journey to become profitable

Dude,

I'm gonna be sounding a bit harsh here but...take it as you wish.


If you read through all the posts in this thread here you started you wouldn't have done another account.

Have a re-read through and pay attention, it goes on about risk/reward, paper trading and everything else to make sure that the people following in your footsteps wouldn't make the same mistake.

This is why this thread was made a sticky so that it would stay at the top of the board for new guys and girls to read.

The most dissapointing thing about it is, it is you yourself that has made mistake's again that have been mentioned here for you and your own good.

Classic tale of not reading or paying attention.

 

[advfntrader]

I will re-read and take notes Lee !

I thought I had a system and rushed into trading again but in reality my system was not 100% ready.

time to go back to te drawing board.

 

[vincentlynch]

Can i just say that i've really enjoyed this thread. I think what i've enjoyed most is knowing that often new traders lose 90% of the time.

I've been trading with real money ( i was paper trading before) very small for a few weeks, and its going ok, my worst day i increased my stop loss below where i felt comfortable convinced it was going to bounce back.... silly silly silly.

Thats my main regret so far, until then i was in profit. but i only lost 14pounds but that 14 pounds i decided to treat it seriously in my mind as if it could have been 10k.

Can i just say, even though i do alot of reading, i take some of the indicators seriously, i take some of the chart movements fairly seriously and i use tight stops because i've been trading on a few hour basis (with a 5min chart movement and a tick by tick open on the FTSE 100 mainly) i do find some of the advice conflicting.

I've been using a spreadbetting account, some people are against them some are for them. i dont neccessarily understand the emotion behind that argument, i use a spread betting account to protect my larger cash that i have stashed i way that i would have to use if i had to pay large commision fees to trade the usually way. I only use a small pot of money on my spread account and i dont set my prepared losses very high per transaction, i think i worked out that its like 0.5%-1%

The biggest advice i've found is about going with the general trend, the times i've lost money i've been too obbsessed with the tick by tick and forgot the general trend and also as a result misplaced my stops.

I've been using the MA indicator, i think i like it. although obviously i know its just guesswork.
I've found the news services to be confusing and not really a good indicator of market trend on the FTSE 100

The advice i was going to say is conflicting on the forums is particular and in books is about where to place your stop losses, but i guess it depends on what timescale you intend to run the position for.
Alot of people say 'your stop losses are too tight'
Others say 'place your stop losses tight that way you lose some and sometimes make profits'

I dont really know which one i'm sure on, but i've been acting mainly on the latter. theres been a few occassions where the general trend is up, the candlesticks resistences&supports are getting higher on price and the volume looks good that i've bought a long position with a tight trailing stop loss and its ran very very well. i would love it if i could find those moments consistently. but maybe i'm a little keen.

i think the main reason i'm posting is.. i would like to talk to some people who are new/experienced traders who are willing to have a few conversations on MSN messenger or whatnot. i'm not looking for advice or teaching, just general chit chat in the evening i guess.

Anyway that was a long post,

have a good day

 

[Stern-Capital]

I can only recommend OANDA - Forex Trading | Currency Trading - OANDA FXTrade - the largest forex retail in the U.S.A!

 

[lote_tree]

what demo accounts do you guys recommend ? I like using the real time java charts that IG offer but no demo account offers these

Interactive Brokers have a great paper trading account. I can only stress what others have said, stop gambling, this is the worst place you can do it. If you want to gamble then I suggest you at least blow your money while having fun, horses, football or even Las Vegas.

Trading is a serious business, it's not a place for you to have fun and be reckless, it's a place to make real money. If you are serious then I suggest you spend at least a year paper trading and developing an edge. That means, everyday you must keep an eye on the markets and learn how things work, get chart time. What will tell you whether you're cut out for this business is whether you start give up all of your social time to learn the business and feel good about it.

You have to prove to yourself that you can make money consistently for a year before you can even begin to think about going live. Being a glass half full kinda guy I feel very uncomfortable saying this but if you can't make money after a year then I suggest you stop and try something else.

Good Luck!

 

[advfntrader]

well I have read through this entire thread and I am motivated again. this CAN be done!

I have started demo trading pin bars and having great success so far! will continue for a few months until I feel I am ready to go live.

I was getting bogged down in the 1min -5min timeframe with too many indicatiors, couldn't see the wood from the trees !!

 

[johnlvs2run]

Learn from it, pick yourself up, and remember to always use stops...always.
The markets do what they want to do and, 'the markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

Every newbie should read this thread before gently tip toeing into the market.

The most important lesson I've learned is sticking with no more than 1% of equity risk, and taking my time.

Most traders don't know that if their broker has a live trading desk, they are trading against you. You need to trade with a broker that trades with an ecn. ... If you wander why you do well on demo account and not live, desk traders not trading demo accounts.

Could someone elaborate on how to find which brokers have one or the other.

Thanks.

Interesting article on market makers vs ecn brokers
Trading Through A Market Maker Vs. An ECN

 

[Pippy5000]

Ouch 10k GBP is pretty rough.. This is a sad story this guy told, but it is a very common one..

I started my first Forex account with $4,000 and dropped it down to $1,152 within one week.. I didn't have the slightest clue what I was doing and didn't even know how to use the software properly.

I had a few drinks that night and slipped into a very deep depression. I decided I would never trade again and would work overtime to make up the losses at my 9 to 5. When I woke up in the morning I decided that I wouldn't quit but would demo trade until I turned my 50,000 monopoly dollars into 100,000 monopoly dollars. Although I did succeed at doing just that I found the experience to be of little value because demo trading is nothing like live trading. So I started live trading again, but with minimum lot sizes.

I made all my money back and a lot more. Actually I make my living off of Forex trading now and it is a good one.


The moral of this guy's story is that you MUST use stop losses, you should NEVER double down on a bad trade and trading against the trend is for experts only! Not using a stop loss in particular is a horribly foolish technique not only because you can lose everything but it takes an emotional toll on you that isn't worth it. I remember in my early days riding bad trades for 3 or 4 days and being a nervous wreck of a person. Also, all your leverage is tied up so you can't make positive trades while you are riding your bad trade. Let the bad trade die and make a new one to make up your losses when the price gets to wherever it's going. Trading is a process of taking two steps forward and one step backward. You are going to have bad trades no matter who you are so just accept the small loss and step away from the computer until tomorrow.

No matter how much success you have making trades without a stop loss you will eventually lose everything. The day will come when the twin towers fall or Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt and all your charts and experience will add up to nothing.. All of your money will be gone!

Also, learn to walk before you run.. Don't think you'll start an account and be God's gift to trading. You need to learn the hard way what to do and what not to do and it will cost you money to learn. make sure that the cost is not so high that you don't get another chance! Remember that if you are successful at a low level then you will be successful at any level. Lose, learn and keep trying.

I'm glad I initially lost money because I never would have put in the work to become a good trader had I made money. I would have kept using larger and larger lot sizes until one day my bad techniques would have wiped me out.

Yes, losing 10,000 Pounds is very rough for a young couple to handle but it could have been so much worse. You could have been 65 and lost 500,000 Pounds, your life's savings! Imagine having that conversation with your wife.

The bottom line is that if you don't know what you're doing then you are just gambling and you'll lose like every other gambler eventually loses. Ask yourself a question before you make a trade. Why am I making this trade?? A gut feeling?? NOOOO.. Your gut feelings are gambling my friend. There are many mathematical indicators which will tell you why you should enter or exit a trade. Sometimes the math will fail you, but the math will lead you to success more often than it will lead you to failure and that's what makes a successful trader.

advtrader,

I don't want to hear about you blowing another live account man. You're starting to sound like a gambler and that is a very sad thing. It's a mental sickness actually and requires treatment. No one on this site wants you to try trading again for 6 more months because you're clearly "trying to get it all back". Keep learning and good luck to you in the future.

 

[Mr.J-Arthur]

Stop your cryin. 10k? Pshhhh! It's tuition, right? Or are you done for good? If you can't use stops to cut a loss, get lost. Don't even consider yourself a trader if you don't use stops!

10k is really not bad at all. Go work full time, save up another 25-100k and then hit the books and go back into trading.

Over-trading is the biggest mistake of new traders. I have a friend who took a measily 4.5k and ran it up to 40k...Yes, that's right. Good luck, good mentor (me and good skills...and he gambled his whole account on many trades, but he used STOPS.

Good luck to you.

 

[4X-Trader]

I agree with Mr.J-Arthur. Many people have lost a lot more than 10k. Just dust yourself off, live on less for a bit, and get back to trading. This is the number one reason people fail to become good traders. You have to just take a loss, and go on. Analyze what you did wrong, and add it to the list of things not to do. Good luck with your wife too.

 

[wouste]

Stop your cryin. 10k? Pshhhh! It's tuition, right? Or are you done for good? If you can't use stops to cut a loss, get lost. Don't even consider yourself a trader if you don't use stops!

10k is really not bad at all. Go work full time, save up another 25-100k and then hit the books and go back into trading.

Over-trading is the biggest mistake of new traders. I have a friend who took a measily 4.5k and ran it up to 40k...Yes, that's right. Good luck, good mentor (me and good skills...and he gambled his whole account on many trades, but he used STOPS.

Good luck to you.

Still starting out immediatlly with 10k$ is not smart.
If you have never had anny trading experience you'll be likely to lose everything so why don't you just start out small.
I think you'll learn lots more if you blow up 5 times 2.000$ then 10k once..
But that's my opinion.

 

[Black Swan]

Having finally read this thread in full I have to say I don't think the O.P. has the necessary maturity, or intellectual curiosity to make it work.

Firstly I'd half expected to see him 'come back' listing his new trading plan; including where stops are placed, how much capital he's re-commited and a thorough detailed analysis of were he went wrong and how he planned to ammend his future trades by applying strict discipline and concentrating on perhaps only the DOW, S&P or the FTSE 100. Similarly it would have been refreshing if he'd listed the books or sites he'd spent hours visiting after all this advice in order to correct his ways.

To come back, having had so much advice and ignored 99% of it, making the same mistake/s is very disappointing and TBH most of the posters who have commited their valuable time to help have been wasting their time.

Sorry to say this but anyone who loses that kind of capital, on effectively their first/only trade, has very little respect for markets, or just how difficult it is to genuinely make capital appreciate. I'd like to ask where the initial 10K came from if it can be treated so disrespectfully? Property profit or re-borrowing would be my guess.

If you can't turn a profit on SB with perhaps an initial deposit of £500, or (in simple terms) 'make it last' a minimum of 200 trades over a two month period - with all the learning this offers up (evaluating your wins, losses, the whys and wherefores) whilst moving up through the gears of ten pence, fifty pence, to one pound 'bets', then you really need to not give up your day job. A £500 loss actually doing the job, with all the experience of the highs, lows and a trading history to super analyse is the best course bar none you can pay for IMHO. Two months at 250 per month, underpinned by furiously searching for knowledge, would in the long run give an excellent ROI.

To finish I'm still staggered that anyone could lose 10K in such a straightforward manner quite frankly and anyone starting off commiting that kind of capital has issues IMHO that have nothing to do with trading or spread betting.

 

[donone]

Having finally read this thread in full I have to say I don't think the O.P. has the necessary maturity, or intellectual curiosity to make it work.

I wish I was so able to see with such clarity & perception.

Firstly I'd half expected to see him 'come back' listing his new trading plan; including where stops are placed, how much capital he's re-commited and a thorough detailed analysis of were he went wrong and how he planned to ammend his future trades by applying strict discipline and concentrating on perhaps only the DOW, S&P or the FTSE 100. Similarly it would have been refreshing if he'd listed the books or sites he'd spent hours visiting after all this advice in order to correct his ways.

To come back, having had so much advice and ignored 99% of it, making the same mistake/s is very disappointing and TBH most of the posters who have commited their valuable time to help have been wasting their time.

Sorry to say this but anyone who loses that kind of capital, on effectively their first/only trade, has very little respect for markets, or just how difficult it is to genuinely make capital appreciate. I'd like to ask where the initial 10K came from if it can be treated so disrespectfully? Property profit or re-borrowing would be my guess.

It sounds as though you don't regard "Property Profits" or "Borrowing" as Real Money" ? - Why not :?

If you can't turn a profit on SB with perhaps an initial deposit of £500, or (in simple terms) 'make it last' a minimum of 200 trades over a two month period - with all the learning this offers up (evaluating your wins, losses, the whys and wherefores) whilst moving up through the gears of ten pence, fifty pence, to one pound 'bets', then you really need to not give up your day job. A £500 loss actually doing the job, with all the experience of the highs, lows and a trading history to super analyse is the best course bar none you can pay for IMHO. Two months at 250 per month, underpinned by furiously searching for knowledge, would in the long run give an excellent ROI.

May I ask what Spread-bet company you use - to get wagers at this level over an extended period - I'd really like to know :?

To finish I'm still staggered that anyone could lose 10K in such a straightforward manner quite frankly and anyone starting off commiting that kind of capital has issues IMHO that have nothing to do with trading or spread betting.

It sounds as though your apparent awe at the prospect losing £10k - actually says quite a lot about your own risk tolerance levels - Plenty of us have lost painful amounts of money (£10k or more) on some gambles - & had More than compensating wins on others.

Historically, it is said, many of the "great traders" went bust several times before "making it".

Alexander Elder s wrote that "Learning to trade will cost you at least as much as a Good college Education" - He also wrote - to learn to trade put some money (Nowhere near your total net worth - but enough to hurt) into an account & trade until it's all gone - then stop and take a good look to see what you've done wrong - keep repeating this process as many times as it takes (Paraphrased)

No - OP (as you call him) has the right to make his own decisions & win or lose - his own way. Whatever way that may be. He now knows it's less easy than it looks - & what level of weighting he gives that knoweledge in future - again is his own decision - Isn't it ?

Confidence sapping & undermining or belittling posts do little to assist the learning process - do they

 

[Pippy5000]

We need to realize that some people, no matter how hard they try will NEVER become good traders. They will keep adding more and more money until their lives and the lives of their families are ruined by their "investing". We are successful traders and so our advice is to "stick with it" because that's what we did.

Very few of the people who lost everything will come on this site and tell you about it.. You'll only hear from people who at one time lost money and then made it back.. The vast majority of people will lose their money and never get it back so it might not be the best advice to encourage losing traders to continue..

It's kind of like telling a kid that if you try hard enough you'll become a pro football player.. Me, no matter how hard I tried I would never become a football player.. Why?? because I simply don't have the physical capabilities no matter how hard I try.. It just won't happen!

Some people just do not have what it takes to be successful traders plain and simple.. It might be an intelligence or emotional issue that is insurmountable. This guy's been wiped out twice.. He should study and practice and give it one more try and if it fails .. STOP!!!

 

[Black Swan]

I wish I was so able to see with such clarity & perception.


It sounds as though you don't regard "Property Profits" or "Borrowing" as Real Money" ? - Why not :?

Not the right interpration, in a deflationary environment many will find out just how hard it is to raise the seed capital to set up in any self employed capacity. Anyone disprespecting ten grand so easily was very likely to fail

May I ask what Spread-bet company you use - to get wagers at this level over an extended period - I'd really like to know :?

iirc IG Index still offer their trade sense programme that allows folk the opportunity to access a decent library of information and to start trading with ten pence bets, up to one pound, over a six week period.

It sounds as though your apparent awe at the prospect losing £10k - actually says quite a lot about your own risk tolerance levels - Plenty of us have lost painful amounts of money (£10k or more) on some gambles - & had More than compensating wins on others.

Yep, dead right I don't have the gambling gene, thankfully for me and my family. Having once made £225 in a day with twenty pence bets, spread over 20 trades I feel entitled to this view.

Historically, it is said, many of the "great traders" went bust several times before "making it".

Yep I'm aware of that silly urban myth passed around to re-encourage failure

Alexander Elder s wrote that "Learning to trade will cost you at least as much as a Good college Education" - He also wrote - to learn to trade put some money (Nowhere near your total net worth - but enough to hurt) into an account & trade until it's all gone - then stop and take a good look to see what you've done wrong - keep repeating this process as many times as it takes (Paraphrased)

Can't agree with this either, "lose ten grand then you'll know where you went wrong"? How about losing the max 500 pounds I mentioned, over a two month period, that IMO is enough 'serious money' to know if you can cut it and should give enough variety of experience.

No - OP (as you call him) has the right to make his own decisions & win or lose - his own way. Whatever way that may be. He now knows it's less easy than it looks - & what level of weighting he gives that knoweledge in future - again is his own decision - Isn't it ?

Confidence sapping & undermining or belittling posts do little to assist the learning process - do they

Heh tough love never hurts; in the long run.

 

[fantastic4]

Thanks for posting your loss and sorry to hear about that. Tell your wife it was tuition, same as if you went to school Paper trade and become succesful at that, then open a small account and trade only stocks, small share sizes. Get consistently profitable, then leverage yourself. Leverage success, not failure. A few years from now you could be a full time trader, and make all that money back and a lot more added to it, but you need to learn the trade and become disciplined.

I'm just learning these things myself, but this is what I better the traders I learn from would say. I'm currently paper trading, and trading one small real money account. I'm finally doing well with the real money, simply because I take losers very quickly, that's the hardest part. Question wether you should let a winner stay on or not, but don't spend any time questioning losers, they're not doing the right thing, cut em off. Before, I too would get greedy, and then let one loser wipe out 10 winners. You'll never succeed with those odds.

I know sharing makes it feel better. I shared the first account I blew up. It was only 600 bucks, but hey, it still hurt. I went through a lot with that little bugger. I missed telling my sons some stories because of it, so when it just smacked me in the face, it hurt.

92% of those who open an online account will not make money, and most who stick with it, blow their first three accounts. I blew my first one, and I've already vowed not to blow my second. I have a drawdown limit, when it's reached, I start buying like 2 share sizes. The point of very small sizes is that you're gaining real experience, but don't have to pay so much for it.

 

[meanreversion]

I had a similar experience with oil a month or so ago, made 10k or so on the way down then decided to reverse, and got stopped 3 times (kept trying to get long) to lose 20k. it doesn't pay to have a macro view on oil, it is far too volatile. much better to trade from a technical perspective, but even then, watch out.

 

[banny66]

Newbie

Hi everyone

Started trading spread bets last week since my shares are down form my initial investment of £20K over the past couple of months to about £14K - ouch!

Figured a better way to make money at the moment is spread betting.

Rushed into it at first and lost £3,500 in a day! Didn't have stops, didn't work out that I was effectively betting on £50k of HSBC shares, got in on rising trends etc. The usual newbie mistakes.

Managed to claw back on Thur and Fri and now up £1K on the spread betting.

I seem to find it 'easier' to make money on shorts than longs - could be my pessimistic nature

Lessons learned -

Stop losses and limits always
Do your maths - £100/pt on BHP Billiton is big money!
Don't listen to bulletin boards
Don't follow tips blindly
Read the news constantly and check digitallook etc regularly
Don't be greedy
Get in on the turn either at bottoms or tops, not half way
Learn some technical analysis - candlesticks seem to work for me
Read some books - they are full of good advice
Don't panic when you make a loss - you can't win 'em all!

Cheers and good luck!

Banny

 

[fakhar]

I had a similar experience with oil a month or so ago, made 10k or so on the way down then decided to reverse, and got stopped 3 times (kept trying to get long) to lose 20k. it doesn't pay to have a macro view on oil, it is far too volatile. much better to trade from a technical perspective, but even then, watch out.

Why you guys always trade without stops? Develop a strategy with stop. This is only tip for success consistantly in the markets.

Thanks
Fakhar

 

[KOLKA]

its okay to lose, but never think you are a 'loser'

I'm down, rock bottom.

started trading Crude Oil futures, though it was easy money at first. made a bit. then I got greedy and didn't use stops. went short and I wasn't willing to take any loss so let the trade run for 7 days, the loss got bigger and bigger so then I entered another short hoping to raise my breakeven. then the biggest rise since the gulf war took me out of the game.

I own double what was in my account and my losses are shocking bad probably £10,000 in total. don't think I can come back to trading, I feel emotionally scarred.

my wife found out about my losses and has threatened to leave me. I hate myself

Hey buddy, don't despair - you are not alone!

Everyone goes through this (or almost everyone). 4 years ago I lost about £60,000 in a matter of a couple of months (everything I had saved up actually).

Its unbelievable what kind of a mess that causes to the body and the mind, I was shaking for weeks (if not for a couple of months), physically and emotionally, randomly cried out during the day (i guess it was an emotional kind of 'psyche out'), thought I was an idiot, total mess up, screw up, etc.

But hey, life goes on and we grow and learn every single day, whether we notice it or not. Now i'm making money quite happily. And believe me, when it starts to happen, it will all be worth it. You would have climbed ontop of the Mountain Everest (albeit lost your arms and legs on the way but in this kind of business, they always grow back, and this time around they are stronger than ever before!).

So don't despaire. You'r not alone. Key thing is Always Be Positive. However badly you mess-up, however much you lose, always say to yourself 'I am learning. Next time I will do this better', no matter what kind of crap thought your mind will throw to you! Always come back with a positive thought. When you start making money and try to grow your own fund (if thats what you choose) then you will have days when you will make mistakes, but if you fixate on that they will grow and you'l feel devastated, instead always remind yourself you are learning and next time you will do it better!

nick ([email protected])