Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?

Soc,
good lord. I certainly admire your persistence then - I fear it may take you an awfully long while to achieve the rivetting, but I certainly wish you well in attempting it. Persistence - I've certainly not been at it as long in years as yourself, but I'm definitely putting in the hours <g>
I'm in agreement with #275, as I am with much of your comment on what I think of as what people want, and how little the majority are prepared to invest (no pun intended) to attain it. You are preaching to the largely converted, I only differ in one major point that I can discern - I don't think you will convert many more if the last 5 months or so hasn't already done the trick.... reading the prior threads is quite a task, those willing to put the effort in will have done it, they will then either be up to speed or not. You seem to believe otherwise, and as you are delivering this not I it would be somewhat rude of me to continue to argue the point, so I will stop.

You are (of course) perfectly entitled to set the pace to your own satisfaction, enjoy your evening!
Dave

Chump,
re biases - yes, I posted in a somewhat similar vein some days ago. Society and government are easier to control if the population is a simple mass, all living boringly predictable lives. It is common to ascribe evil intent when the powers that be force us into boxes we don't like, I tend to think it's just easier and in many cases the person/department in charge is barely competent and simply unable to cope with individuals.
By conforming we don't draw criticism or harsher treatment from society - it is safe and cosy in our boxes, if we get out of the box pressures seek to push us back, and we feel uncomfortable - it takes sustained effort to stay out.

Education - decidedly unlike my experiences as a lad, I went the Grammar school route then into the RAF - like Soc I hated Latin, not least because for the first 2 years the teacher tried to beat it into us. Swapping careers a couple of decades later my teacher training involved quite a lot of psychology, very little Physics - it was assumed (and on paper) that I knew my subject, but I needed to learn how to understand how my pupils were responding to my teaching. Loads since, there is a steady diet of training in this sort of thing, at least where I am, anyway. Quite an eye opener for me, to be truthful, I hadn't realised the effort being put into understanding and improving learning... I can't help but wonder (when I put my 'Mr Cynical' head on) how come all the kids don't leave as certified geniuses!

They even have vending machines and pool tables in the social area.... Crikey, we didn't even have a social area - never mind the drinks machines!
Dave

Dave,
Interesting, now why don't we take it a step further , how many people here when they consult a profession , teacher <g> , doctor , lawyer etc ..how many of them do so with an inbuilt belief that they are consulting an 'expert' (an authority figure) and as such how many people take what is 'given' to them without questioning analytically the information being imparted ... please note I am not suggesting all such members of these professions are not 'experts' rather I am drawing attention to the psychology involved and how this can often nullify the analytical process of thinking....I do not mean to 'harp' on ,but the process of unlearning has a breadth that is amazing .....

SOCRATES said:

Zig Zag :~

Knowldge first.
Observation second.
Trading Plan third.
Method fourth.

treat it like a cycle....

More knowledge gained.
More to observe.
Modification to trading plan if necessary.
Method applied.

and again another cycle...

Even more knowledge gained.
Much more to observe and understand.
Modification to trading plan if necessary.
Method applied.

and again another cycle....

Much more knowledge gained.
Much more to observe and understand and "clock".
Modification to trading plan if necessary.
Method applied.

and again another cycle....

Knowledge gained so far extended.
Observe and clock.
Modiofication to trading plan if necessary.
Method applied.

and again another cycle...

Knowledge gained so far distilled.
Clock immediately.
Trading plan perfected.
Method applied.

and again another cycle...

Knowledge second nature.
Clock as development occurs.
Trading plan perfect.
Method applied.

and again another cycle....

Knowledge intuitive.
Clock as development unfolds.
Trading plan perfect.
Method applied.

and again another cycle...

Infutition.....
Clock in advance of development.
Trading plan perfect
Method applied

and so on and so on and so on, this will take you a long time to master only if you do it properly.

Click to expand...

Socrates,
Thanks for that. Lets agree to disagree on your first para (cycle) I will remain with my original belief. (until Im proven wrong)
However I am in total agreement with your second cycle. It is imperative that continual feedback (information) is introduced otherwise the original trading plan would suffer the same fate as the "dodo".
Regards

Thirteen......

"Page not found" following your link. Not sure what to make of your comments regarding Socrates. You obviously have your own agenda on that subject.

Back to your posts on LT and ST traders and points of price control. I would suggest that this is of far more interest to the board.
Which two timeframes would you generally compare ? Longer term trend would obviously be a daily or weekly chart. Short term ? You tell me. Could you name a chart or charts which demonstrate your theories regarding price point of control ? Once you do that I'll be happy to post them to the thread for all to see. The reason I show an interest is because I've read a number of books which have mentioned some similar theories to the basic theory that you have mentioned. I'm not someone who takes invesigations of theories lightly. I like to explore all avenues to detect genuine claims etc.

Hope you can further help. I'd be happy to start and maintain a further thread on this subject if it is of interest to folk.

Take care,
Steve.

13,
What you appear to be describing looks to me like Market Profile based ?

and the link is circular...is this an honest mistake or are you trying to infer that we are chasing our tails ?

Hi 13,
already read it, thanks. I'd echo (politely) requests to moderate the language whilst agreeing with the need to make your own observations, work hard at it, and learn. I think you've a deal to contribute to a sensible discussion here, if you choose to do so in a reasonably polite manner, after all this is an open thread on trading. If you find youreself unable to ignore Soc then, like Steve, I'd be more than happy to join in another thread where you felt able to post without distraction!

Regards,
Dave

13,
My apologies ,my technical expertise showing , I have the link now..thanks

Sorry Chump,
forgot to reply when I went past - too right, we automatically give authority to those in the position, rather than as a result of our interaction with them. Somewhat oddly there are people who don't agree with this, and instead of simply treating the 'professional' in a manner appropriate to how that professional behaved/acted they go totally the other way and become almost abusive on sight.

As in any walk of life, some are good at the job, some are less good, some are downright awful (and, frequently, their colleagues work around the problem). I generally treat 'professionals' as I try to treat everyone else I meet - politely, but not to the extent that I won't challenge what appears to be complete cobblers, whether talking to a Doctor or the checkout lady in the garage....

Dave

This is a shotened link to the PDF file:-

http://tinyurl.com/44lra

I do think it is worth reading all of it. From what I gather, Socrates posts as Chief Wizard on Elite and it would be interesting to know if this is the same person. If this is true, I think it is worth bringing to the attention of the newer Trade2win members.

I have attached one section of it, for those that don't use acrobat.

Socrates

It would seem that should you wish to continue this thread with an active audience you need to address the issues raised by Thirteen. You may not wish to if they are false and treat them with contempt, however through the medium of bb's there is little trust and suspicion can develop instantly as we are for the most part unknown to one another. By remaining silent does not mean the comments are correct but unless there is a way to account for these issues then the thread can continue but I doubt there will be much of a response from other members as there will be some doubt as to yourself.

Regards

Kevin

I can only add that like others I have followed this thread with great interest, I do not know Socrates personally but it is evident the posts he has published here must take a great deal of time and effort. He claims that he is not trying to sell something and has not as yet requested anyone to sign up for anything.

He has contacted me by phone in response to a PM where he thought I may have had a problem with my trading, which was not the case but none the less he took the trouble at his own expense and time to provide support he felt I might need. During the conversation he came across as a very nice individual and not as described in the posts today. At no time did he try to get me to sign up for anything and the discussion was purely concerning stops and general trading. No further contact has been made and no invitations to sign up for anything. I know this does not alter the issues raised by Thirteen today but felt compelled to record what I have experienced for myself.

Regards

Kevin

You do of course understand the irony here ..... if we cannot maintain our ability to be rational and control our impulses in the way we respond to each other here then what do you think is the probability of being able to do so in the marketplace..... think about it

kevin546 said:

Socrates

It would seem that should you wish to continue this thread with an active audience you need to address the issues raised by Thirteen. You may not wish to if they are false and treat them with contempt, however through the medium of bb's there is little trust and suspicion can develop instantly as we are for the most part unknown to one another. By remaining silent does not mean the comments are correct but unless there is a way to account for these issues then the thread can continue but I doubt there will be much of a response from other members as there will be some doubt as to yourself.

Regards

Kevin

Click to expand...

Dear Kevin, I have just seen this. I am going to deal with this in detail as soon as I have time available to give it the complete attention it merits. For this reason I cannot attend to it now.
But you will all have the facts.

That sounds very fair Soc, after all there is no onus on you to answer as you've yet to be shown to be misbehaving on T2W. It's a bit like that old chestnut 'have you stopped beating your wife?'

I'm in two minds about this - one, Soc has never touted for business on T2W to the best of my knowledge, and he's had plenty of opportunity to do so... plenty of posters/lurkers from the previous Soc thread would, I am sure, have happily signed up to any course he had offered. Until he shows some sign of doing so, and I would have expected it long before this, I can't help feeling that he ought to be treated as innocent until proven otherwise.

On the other hand items like this pdf should, I think, be addressed - that is not to imply that I think there is a case to answer, I have no more reason to believe the contents of that pdf than I have to believe Soc, less so in fact, as from all I've seen to date Soc has behaved like a genuine poster and contributed rather a lot of posts to this BBS. I simply think that if Soc can lay this to rest it would be a good idea to do so, as otherwise I expect it will resurface regularly to the detriment of the thread. Users would then be free to make their own judgement of whether to accept what Soc says or not - which I've been doing for myself all along anyway, as should everyone else here.

(Anybody tying me to a chair for a bit of abuse, or whatever the story was, had better make sure the knots are well tied because I won't be very reasonable when I get free.... <g>)

Dave

Dave JB I will , but not now ~ my main focus of attention is currently on market action currently unfolding.
Sorry, later.

Yes, that was understood from your earlier post.
Dave

Perhaps someone could explain what difference it makes. Perhaps Socrates -- whoever he is -- sells books, sells seminars, sells courses, sells systems. So what? Truth is truth, and truth does not suddenly become less true simply because the messenger turns out to be less than wholly altruistic, or even experienced (even a rank beginner is capable of stumbling upon a truth on his first day).

I suggest that those who pretend to trade and pretend to be profitable and pretend to have learned something about this business are far more deserving of this sort of suspicion and criticism than is someone who offers truth, even though understanding just what it is that Socrates is saying can sometimes be a trial.

At the end of the Journey thread, like DaveB I was disappointed by the way it finished. I did a lot of research –including reading the pdf file etc- and I thought I knew exactly what was what. It resulted in a post which I now wish I hadn’t made.

Afterwards and after some more research and receiving some confidential information from someone I trust, I altered my view. I do not know Socrates personally and have not spoken to him but I now believe Kevin456’s description in post 299 is accurate . For those who are new to Socrates, I would suggest that you go back and read Socrates’ and other posts in this and previous threads. Those wanting to disrupt this thread are not going to say anything new. If you want do some wider research do so but at all times remember that aliases and hidden agendas muddy the water severely. If you feel what Socrates is saying has merit join this thread. If not then all you have lost is a bit of time. No-one is forcing you to join this thread or asking you to part with any money – not even for a book or a cheap seminar.

13, until you arrived this thread was running smoothly. This thread has had some lively discussion and disagreement but all perfectly good natured. And then you came along and for reasons best known to yourself you have soured the whole thread. If your reasons are just to warn us off Socrates then consider us warned enough. We are all big boys now and can look after ourselves. If we’re wrong we can deal with that ourselves. But perhaps your tenacity and determination to flame is indicative of some hidden agendas. If that is the case then perhaps you can you take your battle elsewhere. Either way can I, with the greatest respect, just ask you now, please, to leave this thread alone. You may not like this thread, you may not agree with what’s in it but your participation in it as definitely detrimental to it.

Gerard

Sorry DBP you are using logical deduction ..that isn't allowed ye who hath reason should not enter here...it's the password to get in

That's a bit facetious of me so to those who would rather argue than analyse look again at the link and particularly at the reference to expectations..park them at the door and analyse what is posted on it's facts..after that there should be no problem