Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?

Good points Gerard,
I'd prefer 13 to join in ( but politely) as I suspect he has worthwhile things to say if he'd allow himself to say them.

Personal attacks have no place here, it's easy enough to get steamed up when discussing the subject matter, this isn't a 'pop' at Gerard for suggesting 13 leave by the way - I'm referring to the way personalities have been used to cloud the purpose of this thread - if 13 cannot accept that we've seen this information (some of us before this latest posting) and will now form our own opinions without futher haranguing then I'd second the motion. (I hope very much that would not be necessary).

Judge on the content of the posts, if a reader posesses reaonable mental faculties and doesn't become unduly swayed by personalities they should be capable of forming their own judgements. As for the PDF I read it some time ago, that is not about the Soc I hav encountered therefore I will deal with the Soc I am acquainted with... and will continue to do so unless the one in the PDF surfaces!

Dave
 
Post 307 & 308 echo my earlier post when I made a suggestion regarding 13 to create another post. This was not meant to annoy as he may well have something worthwhile to say and at least this would have provided the appropriate opportunity to show this.

I made the suggestion because where we are now is exactly what I was trying to avoid, I have seen it develop all before. I do not mean in this case, Socrates or 13 but in other threads on this and other sites where I have found some thing which I feel maybe of worth and at the very least interesting. What results is a barrage of posts that gradually deteriorate to slanging, rudeness down right foul language and a complete waste of time with useful posters moving on rather than waste there time going through useless posts.

While I appreciate 13 may have a valid point to make and wish to inform members of ther alleged character of Socrates this could IMHO have been presented in a more respectful manner clearly labelled for the attention of newbies or members as a means of information rather than a cynical post.

I agree with DaveJB, the issue has now been raised and any new members can be referred to it or the reply that Socrates presents us with if he decides to, which of course he does not have to. The thread can continue as we are free to make our own choices and as I tried to show I have only found Socrates to be genuine.

Chumpy

I probably do not follow you as well as I should but your post referring to how we treat people here and the market are completely different. This is an area of research, if something catches my eye then I do not treat it as proved I research further to see if it is correct and then if it can be of any use in my trading. It has to relate to me and how comfortable I am with it. In the market you are alert, a live wire to opportunities that meet your criteria and I believe my mindset at that time is completely different from when I read these posts. I am not a psychologist and have never studied it, it was not available when I was at school, LOL so if I have got the wrong end of the stick then you are free to put me right..

Regards

Kevin
 
kevin546 said:
I made the suggestion because where we are now is exactly what I was trying to avoid, I have seen it develop all before. I do not mean in this case, Socrates or 13 but in other threads on this and other sites where I have found some thing which I feel maybe of worth and at the very least interesting. What results is a barrage of posts that gradually deteriorate to slanging, rudeness down right foul language and a complete waste of time with useful posters moving on rather than waste there time going through useless posts.
Click to expand...

I suspect much or all of this could be avoided if more people understood that methods, strategies, tactics, systems are based on belief systems, and that when one criticizes or questions or in any way "shakes" someone's belief system, the result should come as no surprise (witness the religious war that's going on in the U.S., not all that dissimilar from what goes on between fundamentalists and technicians)

All of this stems from a tenuous and often non-existent connection to reality that seems virtually pandemic. Anyone who can provide a practical remedy deserves a Nobel Prize.
 
I am very busy with a project here that I need to complete, with no one to help me and it must be ready for the opening tomorrow a.m., but I am watching this monitor from time to time. I cannot reply yet because all this needs to be ventilated properly to my satisfaction, in the minutest detail, so that nobody can be left in doubt as to what is the real story behind all this dirt being bandied about by individuals who either know nothing or have a hidden reason for stirring what they know nothing about either. You just have to wait, and I promise you you are going to hear the lot. And when I start it will go on for some time, so be prepared to hear all the facts, blunt and to the point.
 
Kevin,
In relation to my post and your question ? ..our behaviour here has everything to do with how we will perform in the marketplace....if we do not understand our behaviour ,how our perceptions introduce bias , how this bias forms groundless beliefs which lead to uncontrolled action against fellow posters then please explain to me how such a person hopes to mediate their interaction with the marketplace into a positive outcome ? It's clarity of thought..DBP gave it on a plate earlier . ... it does not matter what so called third hand info is being splattered over this BB about a person ... it is irrelevant to the evalution process....but if the ability to reason that objectively is absent and emotions/perceptions are in play..then they will still be in play when you try to trade...you're not in one mode here and another when you trade are you ? or are you saying it's ok not to think here, just reserve it for when trading ?

I am not having a go at you by the way..I am just pointing out what seems crystal clear to me.
 
I think Chump has a good point here -
we all have the critical faculties to hand to decide, based on what we read in the posts, whether to absorb, consider, or discard what others have posted. Judge on what you can see, not on what others see and then report to you.
I'm not thick enough to be claiming that 'the pdf' is irrelevant to how you might view Soc, but I would argue it IS irrelevant to what Soc posts - his posts should be judged on their content. That holds true for all of us. There certainly isn't any need for excitement about it. As time passes your own opinion will be the one to listen to - it's certainly going to be more use to you than borrowing somebody else's.
Dave
 
Several people on this thread have mentioned the difficulty of letting go of dearly held beliefs,
even when they are shown to be patently false, to work against your objectives, to thwart your ability to reason objectively and to pursue a rational course of action.

I am curious to know something from only those of you who are a successful traders (ie., you trade real money and your balance goes up more often than down). Here is my question and it's a bit personal so I sure understand if you opt not to respond.

Are you the same religion as your parents? If so, have you as an adult, had any other systemic change in your world view? Some event or slow realization that the world is not as it once seemed?

Thanks,
JO
 
Might be an idea to put a minimum cash value on that qualifier - I meet your criteria, but I don't make a packet from the markets by a long way.
Just in case you ARE happy with that, my world view has changed over the years quite a lot, but not in large lumps at a time, more a gradual erosion process. Religion is the same - I tick the same 'Not Very' box as my parents did. I fully expect to get religion shortly before death, given sufficient warning <g>
 
DaveJB

DaveJB said:
I think Chump has a good point here -
we all have the critical faculties to hand to decide, based on what we read in the posts, whether to absorb, consider, or discard what others have posted. Judge on what you can see, not on what others see and then report to you.
I'm not thick enough to be claiming that 'the pdf' is irrelevant to how you might view Soc, but I would argue it IS irrelevant to what Soc posts - his posts should be judged on their content. That holds true for all of us. There certainly isn't any need for excitement about it. As time passes your own opinion will be the one to listen to - it's certainly going to be more use to you than borrowing somebody else's.
Dave
Click to expand...
Without being rude, I would beg to differ that "it is irrelevant to what Soc posts"
The same as it is important that readers/student should be confident in the credibility of the tutor. I am sure Socrates will address this issue and pdf on his return and assure us all of his credentials.
Whilst I agree I know nothing about trading, I do have views on credibility.
I think that members on this board should not have multiple names and anyone I believe has,I would find it difficult to believe what they say. Why would members need more than one name???? If you would explain this to me it would be much appreciated.

Credibility is not Irrelevant in my opinion.

Regards
 
Gardan,
My name is not JumpOff or JO, and I do not live in Dark County. I am not a Veteran Member - although I still get a chuckle everytime I see that under my name. The next thing you know, someone will give me 5 gold stars (what are those things anyway?) Zenda does not really look like Catherine Zeta Jones, and Trader333 is probably shorter, wider, and plumper than that photo he uses (no offense - I love that avatar!). Unless you were able to see me physically typing this message, and then watch it appear on the BB, you really have no way to ascertain who I am. The nature of an internet BB is that you have no way to know who is posting or what their motives are.

I still think this is a great place to spend time, and I hope you do too.

Breathe deeply, evaluate the content against that which you already know to be true, and keep your crap detector handy!
JO
 
Chump

No worries, happy for a chat and always willing to expand where I can see a benefit to trading. I like to keep an open mind to all new ideas on trading and happy to discuss even if it shows I am lacking.

I accept what you say. In terms of evaluation and objective thinking when using this site yes of course I apply that when reading posts and if the information merits further research which is then conducted in a thorough manner and then tested extensively.

I rely heavily on visual trading and in doing so this helps to block out emotions for me at least with a mechanical style approach with rules to follow for each action. This is what I meant because I do not need to apply my visual aid when visiting the site. To change something that already exists in my approach would need to be done from a visual viewpoint assessed from my charts rather than my thinking from here. Nothing here is permitted to enter my trading without applying it to the chart so that I can see it for myself and where necessary change my rules to apply it. This is the basis of my previous statement. If this is still wrong then I apologise but in terms of trading I block everything out but the trading method and try not to think, because as soon as I do that is when errors appear. I try to follow completely the rule of trade what you see not what you think.

Kevin
 
Then you take more on trust than you should.
If Soc posts that "it's a good idea to do X, Y or Z" then you should decide for yourself if it's worth checking out, if it sounds a likely idea you should then decide HOW to check for it being a good idea, and go check it.

Coming from a P&F direction, as is my wont, I found as I was starting to get into that method that the support for using P&F often fell back on studies that had been carried out to show that such and such a pattern was X% effective and so on - not being that well up in the field it took me a while to realise that most of the 'experts' were quoting this as a sort of bastion of faith, so I read a bit further and it transpired the stats being quoted came from 1962 or some similarly 'pre electric' era. Later stats existed, but I was unaware of them, and the 'experts' weren't publicising the newer figures anyway. (Possibly because they weren't as good - call me a cynic!)

I had been treated to lots of advice from very respectable sources in the field, which drew me in so far - had I stopped there and just done what the books said I would have had a totally inaccurate view of the tools I was learning to use, and I would have lost fairly quickly I suspect.

Soc's posts can only point you in a direction that may or may not be worth looking in - it is then up to you to investigate what you are presented with to determine if it is worth having and using. I apologise to Soc here, for continually using him as the example, but he IS somewhat at the focus here so I'd like to make it plain that I am neither supporting nor condemning him.

I will accept that somebody known to be an out and out villain is likely to put you off, but you'll go broke just as fast blindly following a nice guy if you do it uncritically.

Don't get me wrong - if somebody on here was clearly a sandwich short of the traditional picnic I'd waste little time on them, but I'd pop along and make sure I saw signs of lunacy for myself rather than relying on somebody else's opinion.

Thanks for the comment though - this was only my opinion, and I'm happy in myself that I'll spot anything too untoward, you may not be as happy doing that, and totally disregarding others' advice may not be your cup of tea. I would suggest then that you listen to those you find sensible, which counts me out... the problem is, what if THEY all have secrets hidden a mere pdf away? Much better to get some practise in here perhaps - provided it only costs a reasonable amount of time.

Dave
 
I don't have time or energy to devote to malicious chit chat. All of this can be explained very simply:~
When I was a little boy, I had an experience, that serves to illustrate the point.
My mother bought me a comic, and in this comic there was a story about some animals on a picnic.
Among these animals there was an alligator and a tortoise, having a conversation, sitting on a boulder.
The alligator confided in the tortoise and said "My mother says, if it is in a book, its true".
You may all go and discuss this, as I am advised to continue to put my attention on what merits it, and not to put it on what it does not merit.
 
Sorry, multiple nics - my opinion of anyone posting under multiple nics purposefully, especially if they fostered argument and discord inthe process, would not be very complimentary. Therefore with respect to:-
"Why would members need more than one name???? If you would explain this to me it would be much appreciated."

- I can't, as I don't agree with it either. (Either I'm missing something, you meant this for someone else and I've misunderstood, or somebody on T2W I'm unaware of is posting pretending to be me... if so I'd appreciate it if somebody would tell me!)

Cynicism is a useful trait, in my view, not just on BBS's but when reading the epics that the various gurus push out. It can be overdone however, use it like salt.... just enough, to taste.

I wish you well, incidentally, on your quest and sorry I took so much of your thread up arguing psychology and education.
Dave
 
DaveJB said:
Sorry, multiple nics - my opinion of anyone posting under multiple nics purposefully, especially if they fostered argument and discord inthe process, would not be very complimentary. Therefore with respect to:-
"Why would members need more than one name???? If you would explain this to me it would be much appreciated."

- I can't, as I don't agree with it either. (Either I'm missing something, you meant this for someone else and I've misunderstood, or somebody on T2W I'm unaware of is posting pretending to be me... if so I'd appreciate it if somebody would tell me!)

Cynicism is a useful trait, in my view, not just on BBS's but when reading the epics that the various gurus push out. It can be overdone however, use it like salt.... just enough, to taste.

I wish you well, incidentally, on your quest and sorry I took so much of your thread up arguing psychology and education.
Dave
Click to expand...

Dave, No i did not mean it for someone else and I very pleased to hear you disagree with multiple nik's. So if you could be so kind as to help a rather confused newbie it would really help me.
If you could please confirm that the JB that members are referring to on the thread below is not you.
Also the respected Moderator "Chartman" who's post on this thread number 32 which was directly posted below your post of 31,Inadvertently (to me anyhow) suggested some thought be paid to multiple nik's, was not directed at all, towards your post.
If it was not directed at your post, I might suggest that you ask Chartman to remove it to stop any further confusion and these silly rumours.

Thanks for well wishes and please post away.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12017
 
This thread certainly seems to have taken a rather bizarre turn.

I'll only point out that if one has no way of evaluating truth without character references, he's most likely going to wind up a very confused puppy.
 
JumpOff

and Trader333 is probably shorter, wider, and plumper than that photo he uses
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint you but I am 6' 3" tall and on the more muscular side of athletic build but I take your comments in good spirit.


Paul
 
I don't think this tread can reasonably continue, in the interesting manner in which it developed, until Socrates provides the board with some answers. As people have already stated, Soc is free to either respond or not respond to what has been written. I would consider that there is an element of hidden agenda or undertow on this thread. There are clearly conflicts among certain posters. It is a shame. I found that the thread was quiet interesting and was developing in a very productive manner. This is not the case now where people are forcing a point of judgement on a fellow poster. Socrates has indicated that he will respond when he has time. Prehaps we should wait to see what he writes. He obviously takes time and effort to construct posts. I feel that there is little point in discussing things until he has represented himself in a clear manner.

Good Morning,
Steve.

PS I would just add that Thirteen, true to his word has provided me with leads to relevant documents which form the basis of his previous comments regarding his trading methods.
 
Gardan,

The JB that members are referring to on the Zenda thread is not DaveJB. It is John S Bartlett. He used to post here under another name and then Zenda appeared. He has a website selling CD's and other material to traders but I don't want to post a link as I don't want to increase the traffic to his site.
 
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