Who trades for a living? It is possible?

[hewhodareswins]

I'm afraid I still don't get it. If some of you resolutely believe that you cannot make money/a living from trading then why the hell are you frequenting trading forums like this?
You absoulutely CAN make money from the markets, billions of pounds change hands every day in the financial markets and if no one makes any money why the hell would they do it?
Come on guys, stop making excuses for your poor performances, go away and observe the markets and read everything you can and you will learn how to do it, one day, the penny will drop and you will see clearly what to do and how to do it, but knowledge alone is not enough, certain personality traits are crucial and all professional traders have them, I'm talking about patience and self control. I know this for a fact because when the markets go quiet, I tend to get a bit bored and start looking around for more trades to place, this is a mistake for me so I have learnt to wait for my setups to appear, but as mentioned ealier, I make a good living from trading and would not want to do anything else!

 

[petetrades]

Gaining an edge from backtesting over a statistically significant sample size and then trading that edge to become consistently profitable is absolutely possible.

100%.

I have seen it done.

Yeah, to pay for a little Mickey D's while the retirement dole gravy train arrives.

 

[petetrades]

I'm afraid I still don't get it. If some of you resolutely believe that you cannot make money/a living from trading then why the hell are you frequenting trading forums like this?
You absoulutely CAN make money from the markets, billions of pounds change hands every day in the financial markets and if no one makes any money why the hell would they do it?
Come on guys, stop making excuses for your poor performances, go away and observe the markets and read everything you can and you will learn how to do it, one day, the penny will drop and you will see clearly what to do and how to do it, but knowledge alone is not enough, certain personality traits are crucial and all professional traders have them, I'm talking about patience and self control. I know this for a fact because when the markets go quiet, I tend to get a bit bored and start looking around for more trades to place, this is a mistake for me so I have learnt to wait for my setups to appear, but as mentioned ealier, I make a good living from trading and would not want to do anything else!

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded

 

[timm]

I agreed with you up until you called for government intervention...The industry doesn’t need any more Government intervention. There is a reason why someone very wise came up with the phrase “A fool and their money are soon parted”. You can’t expect the Government to outlaw fools...there won’t be many people left!

True. You can't outlaw selling useless sh1t that nobody needs. The economy would collapse.

 

[petetrades]

True. You can't outlaw selling useless sh1t that nobody needs. The economy would collapse.

This isn't the point. There's no transparency with brokers or vendors. It's not a situation where all trading should be illegal, but like gun control, there needs to be strong trading control to protect individuals and families and to deincentivise the profit-hungry sociopathic vendors, the Wild Wild West type trading vendor culture currently in vogue must be flushed down the toilet.

 

[tar]

Brokerages self-report for marketing purposes that 10% or less of accounts are profitable, the actual figures must be much lower than that due to brokerage's conflict of interest and lack of transparency. Think about how much you'd have to pay for data, fees, commissions, taxes, etc even in the rare event that you did have a profitable year from day trading. Someone's making a lot of risk-free money but it's not you, the retail trader...unless you lack ethics and become a vendor.

So become a vendor then , its not rocket science , but try to be an ethical one .

 

[new_trader]

This isn't the point. There's no transparency with brokers or vendors. It's not a situation where all trading should be illegal, but like gun control, there needs to be strong trading control to protect individuals and families and to deincentivise the profit-hungry sociopathic vendors, the Wild Wild West type trading vendor culture currently in vogue must be flushed down the toilet.

Do you actually believe that "A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play"?

Do you actually believe that "Gillette is the best a man can get"?

People have a right to believe what they want, right or wrong. Gun control laws are intended to protect the 'public' from gun owners, they are not intended to protect gun owners from themselves or from unethical gun sellers.

What you want is almost as idiotic as the sugar tax which hurts everyone simply because stupid fat people can't control themselves.

 

[donaldduke]

, but like gun control, there needs to be strong trading control to protect individuals and families and to deincentivise the profit-hungry sociopathic vendors

The FCA is currently looking into things like aggressive marketing and opening bonuses, leverage, binary options, will be interesting to see what they decide.

 

[Signalcalc]

They could go down the route for vendors similar to the route of standards and regulations that they apply to other businesses such as advertising standards, ethical standards, criminal record checks, tax avoidance checks etc etc, then you would have to apply to get a license to operate and so on.

The problem is that all of that costs money and is globally unenforceable, each country would have to adopt it and pay for it. And we all know that the costs would be applied to the industry and thence onto.....retail traders.

So to save retail traders from themselves, retail traders would be paying for it whether they use the services of vendors or not, that doesn't seem fair.

Also at what point can a vendor be judged to be fleecing traders? I mean if a vendor was to pass all the regulations and get his ticket to operate then who is to say that the vendors advice is still good enough not to lose traders money.

We are dealing with speculative markets that no-one but the market makers have any idea of direction, everyone else is just guessing ( with some analysis applied).

No, regulation would cost too much for the consumer with no benefit other than to create jobs and paperwork.

 

[petetrades]

Do you actually believe that "A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play"?

Do you actually believe that "Gillette is the best a man can get"?

People have a right to believe what they want, right or wrong. Gun control laws are intended to protect the 'public' from gun owners, they are not intended to protect gun owners from themselves or from unethical gun sellers.

What you want is almost as idiotic as the sugar tax which hurts everyone simply because stupid fat people can't control themselves.

I said governments need more regulations and screenings to protect individuals and families, this isn't about stupid people making bad choices, this is about a systemic culture of deceit, a lack of transparency and overt manipulation of the truth to seduce people into a time and money-wasting hobby which appears to be a business pursuit, inorder to transduce their hard-earned money into institutional capital or capital for the state.

A case from the states comes to mind was in the 1990s, a mentally ill prop-firm day-trader who killed their family and went on a shooting rampage at the prop firm, clearly had more government regulations and screenings been in place the chances of this sort of incident occuring would be greatly reduced.

 

[petetrades]

Do you actually believe that "A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play"?

Do you actually believe that "Gillette is the best a man can get"?

People have a right to believe what they want, right or wrong. Gun control laws are intended to protect the 'public' from gun owners, they are not intended to protect gun owners from themselves or from unethical gun sellers.

What you want is almost as idiotic as the sugar tax which hurts everyone simply because stupid fat people can't control themselves.

Obviously there are industry standards and regulations in place to protect consumers from defects in guns and ammunition. Why should trading vendors be immune to regulations, which are a sign of an adanced society?

 

[new_trader]

A case from the states comes to mind was in the 1990s, a mentally ill prop-firm day-trader who killed their family and went on a shooting rampage at the prop firm, clearly had more government regulations and screenings been in place the chances of this sort of incident occuring would be greatly reduced.

Ummm and you fail to see the irony in this example...HOW DID GUN CONTROL LAWS PREVENT THIS TRAGEDY???

 

[petetrades]

Ummm and you fail to see the irony in this example...HOW DID GUN CONTROL LAWS PREVENT THIS TRAGEDY???

The laws were/are inadequate, as is the ovverall laissez faire / socially darwinistic culture of people in Western societies. The same pattern of societal and legalistic failures leading to these social maladies applies to trading culture.

 

[petetrades]

They could go down the route for vendors similar to the route of standards and regulations that they apply to other businesses such as advertising standards, ethical standards, criminal record checks, tax avoidance checks etc etc, then you would have to apply to get a license to operate and so on.

The problem is that all of that costs money and is globally unenforceable, each country would have to adopt it and pay for it. And we all know that the costs would be applied to the industry and thence onto.....retail traders.

So to save retail traders from themselves, retail traders would be paying for it whether they use the services of vendors or not, that doesn't seem fair.

Also at what point can a vendor be judged to be fleecing traders? I mean if a vendor was to pass all the regulations and get his ticket to operate then who is to say that the vendors advice is still good enough not to lose traders money.

We are dealing with speculative markets that no-one but the market makers have any idea of direction, everyone else is just guessing ( with some analysis applied).

No, regulation would cost too much for the consumer with no benefit other than to create jobs and paperwork.

The solution is a grass-root efforts from ethically enlightened individuals to start demanding proof of claims and a general culture of transparency from trading vendors. It's really disturbing to me that some of the big-name non-transparent vendors on Trade2win can be found in the off-topic threads talking liberal talk, talk about cognitive dissonance!

 

[Signalcalc]

The laws were/are inadequate, as is the ovverall laissez faire / socially darwinistic culture of people in Western societies. The same pattern of societal and legalistic failures leading to these social maladies applies to trading culture.

You've hit the nail on the head - nobody cares - problem solved [emoji38]

 

[petetrades]

You've hit the nail on the head - nobody cares - problem solved [emoji38]

A vast majority doesn't care, that doesn't mean ethics can't improve. A social conscience as a concept did not exist until the 19th century, before then it was either God's will or might makes right.

Perhaps with improved technology most internet interaction will be done with video or voice, where lying is less likely and easier to detect. maybe even algorithms will soon be available to detect dishonesty.

The inevitable evolution of digital ethics will sweep these vendors into the sewers where they belong, whether they have a suit and tie and advanced degrees or not.

 

[Signalcalc]

A vast majority doesn't care, that doesn't mean ethics can't improve. A social conscience as a concept did not exist until the 19th century, before then it was either God's will or might makes right.



Perhaps with improved technology most internet interaction will be done with video or voice, where lying is less likely and easier to detect. maybe even algorithms will soon be available to detect dishonesty.



The inevitable evolution of digital ethics will sweep these vendors into the sewers where they belong, whether they have a suit and tie and advanced degrees or not.

Maybe if someone said: "look, trading (forex especially) is mostly a zero sum game where the vast majority of people lose their money, the industry is rigged by the market makers (mostly government for currencies), the brokers know how the game works and have therefore setup betting shops, similar to fruit machines, provide plenty of flashing lights and whirring gizmos to tempt you to pull the lever in the full knowledge that the system is setup to have you losing your gambling money. The brokers will always encourage vendors to peddle bullsh1t that makes you believe there is a chance that you might become one of the 10% that find a way, but with a one in ten chance of that happening, then the probability is that you won't be. It might be better if you invest your money in a passive buy and hold fund of some sort and invest your time learning skills to earn money in a regular job as that would probably have made you far richer than trading would"

If someone or maybe a robot had said that to you when you started trading, would you have taken any notice?

 

[new_trader]

Just a dream

It might be better if you invest your money in a passive buy and hold fund of some sort and invest your time learning skills to earn money in a regular job as that would probably have made you far richer than trading would"

If someone or maybe a robot had said that to you when you started trading, would you have taken any notice?

A very good post and very true. I don’t personally know anyone who has become rich from trading. I don’t even personally know anyone who knows anyone who got rich from trading. I don’t even personally know anyone who makes a living from trading.

Come to think of it, I don’t personally know any rich rock stars or movie stars either.

I do however know people (a few in my extended family) who got very rich from being real estate agents. I know people who became very rich from being a dentist. I know people who are related to people who got rich being car mechanics & spare parts salesmen and opened their own workshops. I know rich electricians, builders and IT support engineers. My dad made an extremely good living being a simple painter/decorator.

 

[petetrades]

Maybe if someone said: "look, trading (forex especially) is mostly a zero sum game where the vast majority of people lose their money, the industry is rigged by the market makers (mostly government for currencies), the brokers know how the game works and have therefore setup betting shops, similar to fruit machines, provide plenty of flashing lights and whirring gizmos to tempt you to pull the lever in the full knowledge that the system is setup to have you losing your gambling money. The brokers will always encourage vendors to peddle bullsh1t that makes you believe there is a chance that you might become one of the 10% that find a way, but with a one in ten chance of that happening, then the probability is that you won't be. It might be better if you invest your money in a passive buy and hold fund of some sort and invest your time learning skills to earn money in a regular job as that would probably have made you far richer than trading would"

If someone or maybe a robot had said that to you when you started trading, would you have taken any notice?

The problem is trading vendors can lie and say they trade for a living and that they can coach you and they have wolfpacks of rabid followers who attack anyone who questions them, as can be seen in many threads on educational resources, there needs to be some accountability in addition to full and transparent disclosure of the risk and the statistics involved in timing the markets, rather than just an abstract disclaimer.

 

[barjon]

The problem is trading vendors can lie and say they trade for a living and that they can coach you and they have wolfpacks of rabid followers who attack anyone who questions them, as can be seen in many threads on educational resources, there needs to be some accountability in addition to full and transparent disclosure of the risk and the statistics involved in timing the markets, rather than just an abstract disclaimer.

I expect you see me as a rabid follower, but that would be to misunderstand my objections. You did not so much question as accuse without evidence and from the apparent proposition of "these crooks are vendors, therefore all vendors are crooks" which is a patently false argument. That was unacceptable.

Of course it is true that many vendors are dishonest and anyone would be wise to exercise strong due diligence before getting involved with any of them. It is not right, however, to tar everyone with the same brush without evidence.