Who else attended the City Index seminar on 18 Aug 04?

[CityTrader]

Well, all I know is that I had been using City Index off and on for about 6 years, until a couple of months ago, when I asked for 2 prices ( CAC daily and CAC future,) they quoted me both, and I tried to deal in each of them, and the dealer ( American woman called Susan said " oh sorry, the trader wont deal on those prices" - they were roughly the same prices they had been displaying on their web page for previous 3 hours, so they were NOT wildly out of line, )

I haven't bothered dealing with them again, nor will I ever try to again. ( Missing that trade probably cost me about £ 1,250)

 

[Skimbleshanks]

Blairlogie and Trader_Dave: We've got a result!

From the CapitalSpreads thread:

now we know how to win these Shares / Investors Chronicle magazine popularity contests !!

Now I bet (hahaha) that SImon will be hot-footing it to his marketing department first thing tomorrow morning, suggesting they bring in a glittering award or two to adorn the CapitalSpreads boardroom, now that we've spilt the beans on how to do it.

So it's all hotting up, and even though City have a head start, with CapitalSpreads now under starter's orders it looks to me even Stevens on who's going to clinch the trophy! LOL

Good game, eh?

 

[SUNSEEKER]

Hi Trader-Dave,

This is Tom Hougaard.

For some reason I cant use my old Sunseeker address. Can Admin help?

Thats the best bloody review I have read of a seminar. No nonsense....thats what I like.

I know you have raised many questions and I would like to answer all of them here, so everyone who is interested can read them. Now I know the next may seem like a thin excuse, but it is true. I am getting married Saturday, and I have got a truck load of things to do, like writing out endless amounts of cheques , as well as to learn lines bla bla. If you can bear with me I can have my old Sunseeker "reset" and post there next week.

thank you

Tom

 

[Trader_Dave]

Thats the best bloody review I have read of a seminar. No nonsense....thats what I like.

Thank you.

I know you have raised many questions and I would like to answer all of them here, so everyone who is interested can read them. Now I know the next may seem like a thin excuse, but it is true. I am getting married Saturday,.....

That would be excellent....look forward to your responses. Hope the wedding goes well.

Trader_Dave

 

[awoodj]

For info CMC posted their customers copies of the Shares Mag with the competition in it last year asking for votes (can't remember the exact wording)

So i doubt there is anything that underhand CI are doing compared to the rest.

 

[TheBramble]

I am getting married Saturday,

Congrats and Good Luck.

A tip for Saturday Night:hedge your positions. It'll take the strain off your back.

 

[dc2000]

Hi Trader Dave
For charting both Money AM and ADVFN had a free basic service if you registered with them I think they still do.
For charting packages I would try http://www.quotetracker.com
For a data feed you can use the free one from interactive brokers.com if you use them this links up with quote tracker or you could register with scottrade and get 7 free data feeds you have to have a US address but many people just do an internet search for US real estate and key that in.

 

[Trader_Dave]

Thanks dc2000...I've registered with ADVFN and will do so now with Money AM.... I will also look at the data feed URL's you've provided...thanks again.

Trader_Dave

 

[SUNSEEKER]

just had an hour to kill..

everyone says marriage is like a trade with limited upside and no stop loss available

hmm

 

[Trader_Dave]

A little off topic but still in regards to City Index.

I'm using the CI simulator and this afternoon I sold a $5.00 bet in British Airways at $210.50. I'm tracking BA's progress on MoneyAM and with the Deal4Free platform (as the CI simulator has no charting feature). I "should" be making money by now and in a position to close in profit.

The price on MoneyAM is sitting at £199.50 whilst the price on Deal4Free is £207.00.

The price however on City Index has gone up!? It's currently at £211.7 - £213.7. How does that work? Even if I was using e-signal like Tom was (which I must admit is a pretty cool charting package), how could I use this to plot my profits/losses (even if in this case, they would be very small).

Am I lost or is this something that is experienced with all SB companies? I realise that there is the spread to contend with, but I should still be able to scrape out around £15.00. If I had placed the bet with D4F I would have made money. I dont want to compare the spreads of SB companies..I simply would like to know how City Index's price has gone up whilst the market states it has gone down.

Confused...
Trader_Dave

 

[TheBramble]

..I simply would like to know how City Index's price has gone up whilst the market states it has gone down.

Because they (and all SBs) make their own market.

 

[Trader_Dave]

Because they (and all SBs) make their own market.

If that is the case, then what's the point in using either City Index's "MoneyAM" spreadhseet or even e-signals package?

Lets say that was a £50 bet... I should have had an exit point that would have made me around £150-£200.

Trader_Dave

 

[TheBramble]

Don't know what you mean by 'what's the point' - there isn't any 'point'.

You're betting against people that would prefer you to give them your money than them give theirs to you. You're going to have to be very special if you want to consistently make money from them.

If and when you start to do that (consistently win money from them) and when you start to do it BIG - they'll make it more difficult/impossible for you to continue to do so.

As long as you understand the rules, what's the problem?

And CI are no better/worse than other SBs - that's what they do.

But we're getting off the theme of the thread which you started with very specific regard to CI - which was, if you are going to choose to SB - which SB company is best?

 

[Trader_Dave]

You're betting against people that would prefer you to give them your money than them give theirs to you. You're going to have to be very special if you want to consistently make money from them.

I should have mentioned that Tim stated in the seminar that City Index make money regardless of whether you make money or not - he stated that City Index would prefer you to make money so you trade more and therefore City Index make more also....I was very sceptical about this point also.

......which was, if you are going to choose to SB - which SB company is best?

At this point in time, I haven't chosen any...I'm still looking at all of the SB co's...I believe that I will start spread betting regardless of what my long term "trading-goals" are. I'm prepared to lose money but hopefully learn things that will benefit my trading future.

Trader_Dave

 

[Trader333]

Trader_Dave,

It is good policy to treat SB companies in the same way you would do a normal bookmaker when backing a horse. It is good for the bookmaker to have a few winning clients but at the end of the day they make most of their money from clients who lose.


Paul

 

[SUNSEEKER]

he he, bride asleep... just checking positions..

I should have mentioned that Tim stated in the seminar that City Index make money regardless of whether you make money or not - he stated that City Index would prefer you to make money so you trade more and therefore City Index make more also....I was very sceptical about this point also

There is nothing to be sceptical about David. City Index absolutely wants you to win, the more the better. Why shouldnt we? You think it is because we are a "betting" company? A traditional bookmaker wants you to lose because it is his opinion ( odds ) against yours. SB companies make their money from the spread. They dont have an interest in you losing and would rather see a winner repeatedly win than the other way around.

You write that you were sceptical about this point ALSO. What other points are you sceptical about?

City Index and the other UK spread betting firms makes it possible to trade the markets in a contract size which is not available through the exchanges. As an example, you wish to trade the DAX future or the FTSE future you will trade in a standard contract size of 25 Euro and £10 respectively. When you spread bet, you can chose your own size. Some of the SB companies have smaller stake requirements than others, but all of them use bet sizes which are much smaller than the exchange traded contracts. So if you are new to trading you are trading the real market, with a spread, using a size that suits you.

As for winning and losing in the market: It is understandable that when you are losing in the market you want to blame someone else but yourself. The spread betting companies have suffered from a poor reputation ever since the internet made boards like this possible. It is always focused around the same theme: the SB companies have a spread around the market price. The competition over the last couple of years have brought these spreads down significantly to what they used to be. Nevertheless there will always be a spread around the middle price when you are trading with an SB company. In return you dont pay commission, no stampt duty and NO TAX.

If you trade through a broker like spike trading or refco you will pay commission and tax as well. Furthermore you can only trade the contract sizes that the exchanges stipulate. That is the long and the short of it.

I could go on and on. I have seen threads like these before. I believe CMC was extremely helpful some time ago with a thread. For example, if you trade the FTSE 100 before the market opens in the morning, then we are in a situation where it is you against us. We are making a price in a market which is not yet open. You can then argue that we are a bookmaker in these situations. How can I disagree? The price at that time in the morning is based around where we think the market will open.

Although I cant talk for the business plan of other SB companies, it is in our interest at City Index that you trade as profitable as possible. I hold trading seminars to teach the basic stuff and will always try to help anyone who is interested in trading the markets.

As for the charting package: I used my e-signal package on the day purely out of habit. I should have used the Money AM package but I simply forgot.

As for the "buying votes" question: I had a phone call from a journalist from the Daily Telegraph asking me if it was true that City Index offered £500 for every person who filled out the Shares Magazine questionnaire and put City Index as the best spread better. My answer was: do you really think we will pay 300 people in a seminar room £500 each to vote for us? I mean in all seriousness, do you think that we would spend £150,000 on that? NO.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If I have omitted some, let me know.

Best wishes
Tom

 

[Trader333]

If you did not work for a SB company then why not consider a career in politics as this last "Spin Doctored" post would make even Peter Mandelson proud. The buying votes reply you have given is a diversion for what was actually said which was that by voting for your company there was the possibility of one person receiving a £500 reward and not that everyone would get it.

Do you really think that we cannot read or that we are all idiots ?

And whilst SB is free from tax or commissions, I would rather pay tax on a profit than no tax on a loss although I completely agree that for position trading SB is the only sensible option for anyone to consider.


Paul

 

[anley]

It would be interesting to see the figures of how much a SB firm makes via charging its spread versus taking on its clients positions. My bet is that the spread charged pays for 100% of the running cost of the operation but trading the client positions is the profit.

We're all here to make money so nobody can criticise that but spread bet companies saying they only make money via the spread is a little hard to swallow!

 

[Trader_Dave]

Tim,

I appreciate your reply - thank you for your answers.

You write that you were sceptical about this point ALSO. What other points are you sceptical about?

Maybe the words "sceptical" and "also" were an incorrect combination...the lack of demonstration on the MoneyAM charts included with a CI account made me "sceptical" that they were going to be of any benefit, and I was "sceptical" on the credibility of City Index's numerous awards after the way City Index (strongly IMO) blatantly bought votes.

Some of the SB companies have smaller stake requirements than others, but all of them use bet sizes which are much smaller than the exchange traded contracts. So if you are new to trading you are trading the real market, with a spread, using a size that suits you.

Exactly why I'm looking to "learn" using SB Co's over direct broker.

The competition over the last couple of years have brought these spreads down significantly to what they used to be. Nevertheless there will always be a spread around the middle price when you are trading with an SB company. In return you dont pay commission, no stampt duty and NO TAX.

Did you see my posts regarding my British Airways bet? I'd really appreciate your opinion on this matter on how that occurs. I should have been in a position to make money (even round the spread) but instead I was losing money??

We are making a price in a market which is not yet open. You can then argue that we are a bookmaker in these situations. How can I disagree? The price at that time in the morning is based around where we think the market will open.

I agree, however I dont think anyone was arguing this point?

As for the charting package: I used my e-signal package on the day purely out of habit. I should have used the Money AM package but I simply forgot.

If you are holding the next seminar I will attend and if so, would you be able to demonstrate it then perhaps?

As for the "buying votes" question: I had a phone call from a journalist from the Daily Telegraph asking me if it was true that City Index offered £500 for every person who filled out the Shares Magazine questionnaire and put City Index as the best spread better. My answer was: do you really think we will pay 300 people in a seminar room £500 each to vote for us? I mean in all seriousness, do you think that we would spend £150,000 on that? NO.

Tim, no one (and definately not I) suggested that you were giving every person who filled in the questionnaire £500. You provided a small prize draw that would provide one person in that room with £500 credited to their account. HOWEVER, to be considered in that prize draw you HAD to fill out the questionnaire AND fill in City Index as your favourite SB company. THAT IS BUYING VOTES. I'm not saying this doesn't happen elsewhere, but please do not try to deny it....and for the record, I could not have been bothered to pass a remark like that on to any media company...or for anybody outside of this forum to be honest.


Thanks Tim - I look forward to your next reply. Hope the honeymoon is going well.

Regards,
Trader_Dave

 

[SUNSEEKER]

Paul and Trader Dave,

You know I agree with you it would have been pretty outrageous if I had said that IF you put City Index in as the best spread better, you could win £500.

The fact is however that I said if you fill in the questionnaire, we would draw out one winner. And then I added, much to the amusement of those present, in hopefully a tone which was slightly more cheeky than usual, “ and if you put City Index as the best SB company I will certainly not complain”.

That was what was said. Nothing more and nothing less.

Now Dave, you are always welcome to come to a seminar and I will show the charting platform…you know the email address…..

Now, I am off to the pool, contemplating a career in politics ….he he