What personality should a winning trader have? Does it even matter?

[Exscudo]

I would like to add one more personality trait to the good ones that the others have written.

Humility.

Never think that you are bigger than the market. Never think that you are a better than other people. In most trading situations you won't have to worry about having an ego for too long because the market will be happy to cut you down to size by handing you some major losses.

Be aware that improving your trading is a life long adventure and is not something that will happen in the short run. It takes time and a dedicated effort on your part.

This makes a lot of sense. Ego can take anybody down in any field.

 

[cantagril]

So, basically what you are saying is - no matter what inherent personality traits you have, your determination, wits and will power will decide whether you can be successful or not.

Um, actually, no.....

I do believe that "determination" and "will power" (which are close relatives) are essential factors and that one's "wits" play a part; however, there are other aspects which are equally or yet more important. You can be as determined as is humanly possible but that doesn't make you profitable and the same goes for will-power.....and as for wits (by which I assume you mean "intelligence" rather than knowledge) there, I don't agree at all. I have known some consistently very profitable traders who could barely tie their own shoe-laces and in my experience one can be too clever and over-think and over-perceive what one is trying to do and what is happening in the markets. Being smart can be a handicap....but of course, so can being stoopid.

In my profile details I have a short list of quotations which I primarily use to remind myself of my own failings. I think that when it comes to personality, the one that keeps coming back to bite me is the one about doing what is necessary to achieve a particular goal, whatever that goal may be: "In order to do what is necessary, it is first necessary to understand what is necessary". This may sound self-evident but it's directly connected to critical thinking and the more philosophical foundations of what we do and why we do it. Check out "Necessary and Sufficient Conditions" in phil and the concepts of "Necessity and Sufficiency" in statistics.

 

[Exscudo]

Um, actually, no.....

I do believe that "determination" and "will power" (which are close relatives) are essential factors and that one's "wits" play a part; however, there are other aspects which are equally or yet more important. You can be as determined as is humanly possible but that doesn't make you profitable and the same goes for will-power.....and as for wits (by which I assume you mean "intelligence" rather than knowledge) there, I don't agree at all. I have known some consistently very profitable traders who could barely tie their own shoe-laces and in my experience one can be too clever and over-think and over-perceive what one is trying to do and what is happening in the markets. Being smart can be a handicap....but of course, so can being stoopid.

In my profile details I have a short list of quotations which I primarily use to remind myself of my own failings. I think that when it comes to personality, the one that keeps coming back to bite me is the one about doing what is necessary to achieve a particular goal, whatever that goal may be: "In order to do what is necessary, it is first necessary to understand what is necessary". This may sound self-evident but it's directly connected to critical thinking and the more philosophical foundations of what we do and why we do it. Check out "Necessary and Sufficient Conditions" in phil and the concepts of "Necessity and Sufficiency" in statistics.

I feel like we are talking about the same things but in different words.
Thanks, I will check out the resources that you suggested!

 

[Nowler]

There's one sure fire way of seeing whether you have the ability to be a profitable trader... and that's to trade.

Losing money in the beginning doesnt mean you dont have what it takes, but you will have a good idea whether you can do it. Or perhaps more accurately, whether you are willing to change enough in order to be profitable.

There are so many ways to make money in the market that asking whether its nature or nurture that makes the trader makes no sense. It just depends. Nothing is certain. And even things that are highly probably, change.

One thing that I can say which I am certain of is, I am not the same person that I was before I started trading. The traits and thought processes I have for trading have spread through my entire life. It's more of a perspective than a skill. Just like I found my psychology degree to be.

Embrace the uncertainty!
It's an amazing journey though mate

 

[Exscudo]

d

There's one sure fire way of seeing whether you have the ability to be a profitable trader... and that's to trade.

Losing money in the beginning doesnt mean you dont have what it takes, but you will have a good idea whether you can do it. Or perhaps more accurately, whether you are willing to change enough in order to be profitable.

There are so many ways to make money in the market that asking whether its nature or nurture that makes the trader makes no sense. It just depends. Nothing is certain. And even things that are highly probably, change.

One thing that I can say which I am certain of is, I am not the same person that I was before I started trading. The traits and thought processes I have for trading have spread through my entire life. It's more of a perspective than a skill. Just like I found my psychology degree to be.

Embrace the uncertainty!
It's an amazing journey though mate

Amen

 

[cantagril]

...............
While there will certainly be some new factors when I move to an account in the thousands, but for now I can learn quite a lot for essentially peanuts.
I am not focused on monetary value. It's % growth and % drawdown that I am focused on.
Once I have that fine tuned, it's just a matter of scaling up (apart from the psychology difference trading pennies per pip, to trading pounds per pip).

IMO Nowler's honest resumé of his own progress is one of the most valuable contributions to this thread ( I don't mean to denigrate anybody else's though) as experiences that are recent and therefore fresh, and his perspective is directly related to the steeper part of the learning curve.
His observations about being "a different person" now and the part that psychology plays are very accurate. Most people judge themselves very poorly, which absolutely fine if you get a kick out of, say, cheating at solitaire.... but is a quick way to ruin yourself in the markets. If you haven't already worked out who you really are then trading can be an efficient way of finding out - the only question is how much this will cost.

 

[Nowler]

... Most people judge themselves very poorly, which absolutely fine if you get a kick out of, say, cheating at solitaire.... but is a quick way to ruin yourself in the markets. If you haven't already worked out who you really are then trading can be an efficient way of finding out - the only question is how much this will cost.

This is very true!
We are full of inconsistencies and contradictions.
We largely live our lives an auto, massively relying on stereotypes/schemata formed in earlier stages of development.

It is one problem when we all do this, and as a result we dont get called out on it. But another problem is that even if these biases and inconsistencies do come to our attention, a lot of the time we justify it or move past it some other way without really addressing it.

As amazing as we are, we are very vulnerable. Just look at things like Stockholm syndrome, or how little things as a child manifest in massive things later in life. Fascinating creatures.

The reluctance of so many to fine tune themselves psychologically is a massive advantage for those who are willing to.

 

[J Livermore]

On the matter of trading to find out whether you're a trader - I would add to the above by saying that you don't need to jump into the deep-end from a demo account into a serious money one. You can quite easily start trading for real on a nano-account at 10 pence a pip and that will tell you a lot. If you become a good manager and are consistently profitable over time then you can gradually scale up until you're ready for a more grown up account.

I can't remember who said/wrote this but it's quite useful: "Learn for free. Practice cheap. Trade for profit."

This post is in response to either cantagril or Nowler:

Are nano accounts a different type of account that a brokerage house can open for you, if you want to trade small, or is it just depositing a small amount of money with your broker in your regular account?

I’m in the U.S., so I don’t know if these type of accounts are available in the UK only or if they can be done with U.S. brokerages. I’ve never heard the term nano accounts before.

When I’m ready to plunk my money down I will most likely be going with TD Ameritrade if that helps.

Thanks.

 

[Nowler]

This post is in response to either cantagril or Nowler:

Are nano accounts a different type of account that a brokerage house can open for you, if you want to trade small, or is it just depositing a small amount of money with your broker in your regular account?

I’m in the U.S., so I don’t know if these type of accounts are available in the UK only or if they can be done with U.S. brokerages. I’ve never heard the term nano accounts before.

When I’m ready to plunk my money down I will most likely be going with TD Ameritrade if that helps.

Thanks.

Good morning mate.

For me, it's just a small deposit with a broker.
Oanda is who I trade with. They are a market maker (no Direct Market Access with them).

I've had no problems with them in over 2 years.
You can trade less than a cent per pip if you wish. I think I initially deposited 5 pounds...

 

[Daniel Jones]

For me a winning trader has to have the following traits:-

- he should be disciplined, that’s most important
- not get affected by what others do
- should be able to make right decisions at the right time
- can deal strongly with losses

 

[scarlet jones]

Definitely there are certain personality features which will help you to close out profitable deals and get along with trading successfully . A successful trader is patient and disciplined . He knows when to react and when not to . Apart from this he knows the importance of avoid emotions while trading. I also think that there can not be a specified defined list of features that a successful trader must possess. It will just vary from person to person and how calm he keeps himself when he trades. So, whatever helps you to make a better decision is required for a successful trader.

 

[James turtle]

Process Oriented
All the winning traders i know of never start their trading with the expectation to start their trading to make a certain amount of money but losing traders do, in the hopes of getting money for the time they put into it. Trading is not a profession where you get hourly income/pay. Successful traders focus on the process, not about the money they will win or lose.
There might be days when you earn good sum in minutes or end up losing after trading for hours. A successful trader is aware of this thing and focus on developing a sound trading strategy and stick to it.

 

[J Livermore]

Guys, I'm wondering, do you think there are any specific personality characteristics that can make you a more successful trader?
Or on the other side of the equation - are there any personality characteristics that should keep you from trading? What do you think?

I just thought of another bad trait which usually is thought of as a good trait outside of trading.

The “never give up” trait.

Investors are taught to hold onto their positions and ride out the wild volatility as long as the fundamentals are improving. This can be deadly to a trader especially if he/she is using leverage.

If you are experiencing a series of losses you need to stop what you are doing and take a good amount of time off to study not only the markets but your own trading techniques and methods. Trading is not an athletic event where you push even harder in the hopes for a come from behind victory. The harder you try to come back from a series of losing trades the bigger the possibility that you may be just as bad or even worse.

The same goes for holding onto winning positions too long. This is sometimes a problem for me. Sooner or later all stocks stop rising, whether it be months or years. Eventually the top will come. By not throwing in the towel when the time to get out of a successful trade comes, you may give up a large piece of your winnings as it starts to come back down. The only way to successfully sell market tops is by pure luck alone.

Never give up on yourself, but there are many and frequent times when you need to give up on a stock position or the market as a whole.

 

[Exscudo]

I just thought of another bad trait which usually is thought of as a good trait outside of trading.

The “never give up” trait.

Investors are taught to hold onto their positions and ride out the wild volatility as long as the fundamentals are improving. This can be deadly to a trader especially if he/she is using leverage.

If you are experiencing a series of losses you need to stop what you are doing and take a good amount of time off to study not only the markets but your own trading techniques and methods. Trading is not an athletic event where you push even harder in the hopes for a come from behind victory. The harder you try to come back from a series of losing trades the bigger the possibility that you may be just as bad or even worse.

The same goes for holding onto winning positions too long. This is sometimes a problem for me. Sooner or later all stocks stop rising, whether it be months or years. Eventually the top will come. By not throwing in the towel when the time to get out of a successful trade comes, you may give up a large piece of your winnings as it starts to come back down. The only way to successfully sell market tops is by pure luck alone.

Never give up on yourself, but there are many and frequent times when you need to give up on a stock position or the market as a whole.

Honestly, this is not even a good thing in real life. Or, at least is not understood correctly in my opinion.
Just as an example, I was riding a mountain bike the other day, just learning the very basics and I didn't feel very focused that day. I didn't give up and still went for a hard element. Ended up in a hospital with a broken arm.

After it healed I still went back for it but now I am much more careful to stop in time. Sometimes it is very important to take a break and reevaluate the situation, the important thing is to come back later and keep at it if its something that is really important for you.

 

[Exscudo]

Process Oriented
All the winning traders i know of never start their trading with the expectation to start their trading to make a certain amount of money but losing traders do, in the hopes of getting money for the time they put into it. Trading is not a profession where you get hourly income/pay. Successful traders focus on the process, not about the money they will win or lose.
There might be days when you earn good sum in minutes or end up losing after trading for hours. A successful trader is aware of this thing and focus on developing a sound trading strategy and stick to it.

Thank you, this is actually the most sound approach to trading in my mind as well.

 

[fibo_trader]

Guys, I'm wondering, do you think there are any specific personality characteristics that can make you a more successful trader?
Or on the other side of the equation - are there any personality characteristics that should keep you from trading? What do you think?

The dragonfly's personality characteristics will give you a 95% successful trades hit consistently - this is the domain of Fibo.

---------------------------------------------------------


Fibo's deadly record is down to an array of adaptations including complex eyes specialized to detect black spots against the sky. His wings are also powered by individual muscles that work together for amazing acceleration and agility.

However, it’s Fibo's brain that holds the secret to this remarkable success rate. “His brain uses a highly optimized hunting strategy that allows him to predict where the prey is going (1) and the appropriate muscle commands to intercept it (2)

(1) is taboo for Trend followers but a birthright of Fibo

(2) 4 sets of muscles that Fibo uses to intercept with precision. There is a 5th muscle - its called History. Fibo uses this a rudder.

Most importantly, he is exposed to very small risk of collision and therefore injury due to a categorically well designed and well thought out StopLoss that he launches 2 seconds before flight to the kill.


Therefore he bests the Peregrine Falcon with stunning ease and verve

 

[fibo_trader]

The dragonfly's personality characteristics will give you a 95% successful trades hit consistently - this is the domain of Fibo.

---------------------------------------------------------


Fibo's deadly record is down to an array of adaptations including complex eyes specialized to detect black spots against the sky. His wings are also powered by individual muscles that work together for amazing acceleration and agility.

However, it’s Fibo's brain that holds the secret to this remarkable success rate. “His brain uses a highly optimized hunting strategy that allows him to predict where the prey is going (1) and the appropriate muscle commands to intercept it (2)

(1) is taboo for Trend followers but a birthright of Fibo

(2) 4 sets of muscles that Fibo uses to intercept with precision. There is a 5th muscle - its called History. Fibo uses this a rudder.

Most importantly, he is exposed to very small risk of collision and therefore injury due to a categorically well designed and well thought out StopLoss that he launches 2 seconds before flight to the kill.


Therefore he bests the Peregrine Falcon with stunning ease and verve

My apologies for not including the title of the personality of a winning trader: It is actually an Axiom, a Fibo Axiom

Fibo's Law: applies to all Life but here especially to forums

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind

(last sentence should be read a few times as most might not get it the first time, esp. those whose native lingo is not Inglit)

 

[fibo_trader]

A winning trading personality suffers greatly in a group. Fibo dispensed with the liability of trading within the confines of a group of traders as for example in a Financial Outfit etc., or even a private group for this one reason

African wild dogs hunt as a pack and have a very high kill success ratio of 85% but most of it is given back to larger predators like lions, hyenas and leopards leaving a net success ratio of only 58%. Too low for Fibo and too much time involvement and way too much babysitting and handling personal psychological problems of members.

Lions, tigers, leopards and the like are very low success ratio as to not be considered to incorporate their techniques into an automatic karate style mode of attack in the markets.

 

[Exscudo]

too much time involvement and way too much babysitting and handling personal psychological problems of members.

I doubt that african wild dogs spend a lot of time handling personal psychological problems of members, but otherwise this is something new for me, thank you for giving so much information

 

[Daniel Jones]

Confidence, discipline, patience and that zeal to master trading. Must have to be a winner trader.