well yes there is a certain amount of wishfull thinking here i'm sure chump, mind you if you have made a lot of money from trading and are happy to live abroad tax isn't such a big problem as arn't most trading profits capitol gains and this is the easiest one to get round / reduce, but i don't pretend to know much about it , unfortunatly making my fortune is still first worry!!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
chump said:"that you wouldn't stay in any one country long enough to be resident for tax purposes, you were always classed as just visiting (ie a tourist)"...let's be very clear this has never had a basis in law....it does however exist in wishful thinking....if you earn then you are liable to pay tax somewhere..the rules are just to determine where that somewhere is...not if there is a liability..
So logic would suggest that you could make a "base" in a no/low tax jurisdiction and then hop from one country to another always staying under the "taxation days" threshold? Your earnings would then be subject to tax in the no/low tax area only.
not sure eminem , the other guys seem to know what they are talking about , i suspect once you've convinced uk taxman your not resident, other countries won't take too much notice about how long you hang around , but maybe the uk taxman won't be convinced these days unless you state another country for residency , feel a headache coming on , still i suspect most billionaires find some lucky reason they don't have to pay as much tax as most of us, who knows maybe they even pay accountants etc !!
Well, yes; here you have a point. That's generally true. There are also many countries with no CGT and many more with CGT at around 15%. There is, however, another issue involved: in many countries (including this one, under some circumstances) if income _otherwise_ taxable only for CGT is your _sole_ income, it can become eligible for income tax instead of CGT. There are, of course, other countries (for example Malta and Latvia) in which the current CGT and income tax rates are the same anyway.henry766 said:.arn't most trading profits capitol gains and this is the easiest one to get round / reduce
Em,
There is nothing to stop an individual establishing residency in a country (low tax or otherwise) and then generating revenue in other countries as long as this is done within the time and residency rules..but, if you think about it you will soon realise that such activity is not that simple to organise on a practical day by day basis at least for most people..perhaps certain consultants can take relatively short contracts and work along these lines ,but a lot depends on the activity and the demand for it...
There is nothing to stop an individual establishing residency in a country (low tax or otherwise) and then generating revenue in other countries as long as this is done within the time and residency rules..but, if you think about it you will soon realise that such activity is not that simple to organise on a practical day by day basis at least for most people..perhaps certain consultants can take relatively short contracts and work along these lines ,but a lot depends on the activity and the demand for it...
chump said:Em,
There is nothing to stop an individual establishing residency in a country (low tax or otherwise) and then generating revenue in other countries as long as this is done within the time and residency rules..but, if you think about it you will soon realise that such activity is not that simple to organise on a practical day by day basis at least for most people..perhaps certain consultants can take relatively short contracts and work along these lines ,but a lot depends on the activity and the demand for it...
Yes it would be possible to arrange your affairs as I described above BUT like you say the mechanics of achieving it and the practicalities involved make the blueprint a bit of an academic exercise for all but the very wealthy, there are afterall high costs involved in the maintenance of such schemes.
Chump, what would be considered a country that you are generating income in if you are infact making your money via internet activities such as we do in trading. Would it be the country that the broker is based in or the country that you do the trading in?chump said:Em,
There is nothing to stop an individual establishing residency in a country (low tax or otherwise) and then generating revenue in other countries as long as this is done within the time and residency rules..but, if you think about it you will soon realise that such activity is not that simple to organise on a practical day by day basis at least for most people..perhaps certain consultants can take relatively short contracts and work along these lines ,but a lot depends on the activity and the demand for it...
Rogue Trader, when you say you were in tax exile, what does that mean? I thought being in tax exile is when you owe tax in a particular country and can't go back for fear of being stung for the bill or arested for tax evation. If you live for over 190 days in a particular country would you not be subject to there tax and therefore not be in exile at all?
Also, the 90 day rule for the UK, is the consecutive days or days per year?
Tax law is confusing! Good job that a lot of the countries that have more lenient capital gains have good climates :O) What is the income tax/capital gains level in malta (still top of my list being English speaking and with pretty low tax levels)
roguetrader
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,062
- Likes
- 49
pkfryer said:Rogue Trader, when you say you were in tax exile, what does that mean? I thought being in tax exile is when you owe tax in a particular country and can't go back for fear of being stung for the bill or arested for tax evation. If you live for over 190 days in a particular country would you not be subject to there tax and therefore not be in exile at all?
Also, the 90 day rule for the UK, is the consecutive days or days per year?
pkfryer, a tax exile is someone who lives outside his or her own countery in order to minimize tax, there is nothing illegal involved.
The 90 day rule does not have to be consecutive it is simply 90 days in any one year.. In other words if you had established a tax exemption from the UK by living abroad you would have to limit your visits to the UK to total no more than 89 days in any one year. Of course under the dual tax agreements set up by countries if you were paying tax in the country you were living in then this would not apply provided the UK had such an agreement with that country.
Interestingly I was told something by an accountant aquaintence the other day, but it should be taken under advisement as he pointed out he had no experience with this particular circumstance, and I have not had time to inveatigate further as yet. But, he said as he understood the tax law, if your account was based in the US trading, US securities, but you were resident in the UK. The US IRS would take no interest in you with regards to trading profits as you were not resident in that country,and the UK IR would only take an interest in money as and when it was brought into the UK from such activities.
As I say I have not checked this out with the IR yet but an interesting thought none the less.
I just read an interesting thing about Malta. To be eligible for their local tax laws you have to apply for permanent residency, but after you are considered a permanent resident you actually dont have to stay a minimum period in the country to benefit from their low tax!!
Have a read of this just in case I've got the wrong end of the stick.
http://www.henleyglobal.com/pdfs/Malta2001.pdf
The 190 day rule for residency is not fixed accross the board for all EU countries.
Have a read of this just in case I've got the wrong end of the stick.
http://www.henleyglobal.com/pdfs/Malta2001.pdf
The 190 day rule for residency is not fixed accross the board for all EU countries.
roguetrader
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,062
- Likes
- 49
That would not surprise me as once you have residency in a country I am not aware of having to spend any particular amount of time in the country. The trick is all in getting the residency in the first place
That's my understanding also. I believe that such activities can lawfully be pursued using a Channel Islands account without paying UK tax, but that in such cases one probably isn't really supposed to use a credit-card attached to the account inside the UK (how enforceable this would be is unclear).roguetrader said:he said as he understood the tax law, if your account was based in the US trading, US securities, but you were resident in the UK. The US IRS would take no interest in you with regards to trading profits as you were not resident in that country,and the UK IR would only take an interest in money as and when it was brought into the UK from such activities.
Without wanting to sound authoritative about it, since I'm not an accountant myself, I'm investigating the whole thing with a view to becoming both domiciled and resident in Malta in a couple of years' time, and that's very much my understanding too.pkfryer said:I just read an interesting thing about Malta. To be eligible for their local tax laws you have to apply for permanent residency, but after you are considered a permanent resident you actually dont have to stay a minimum period in the country to benefit from their low tax
It's just "additional income" and taxed as income. Lots of things off-settable ... including "previous business losses".henry766 said:what is the cap gains rate in malta?
henry, i think the flat rate is 15% with a minimum payable of 2500 but that is off the top of my head. Check out these sites which have some interesting details on malt, property and tax:
http://www.franksalt.com.mt
http://www.henleyglobal.com/malta1.htm
This also has some details: http://www.euromalta.org/
http://www.franksalt.com.mt
http://www.henleyglobal.com/malta1.htm
This also has some details: http://www.euromalta.org/
Last edited:
This is what I've found at the henlyglobal site about malta and the conditions to apply for permanent residency. Apparently it was a lot harder to become a resident in malta until they joined the EU which permits anyone in the EU to buy as much property and in what ever country they choose.
"Conditions for obtaining a residence permit
While there is no minimum stay or residence required, when the permit is first issued the Permanent Resident must come to Malta at least once within the first twelve months to have the passport stamped and to register with the Inland Revenue Department. The permanent residence status is open to those foreigners who can provide evidence:
1. that they have an annual income equivalent to 10,000 Maltese lira (MTL, 1 MTL = approx. US$ 2.50), or that they own capital equivalent to MTL 150,000; and
2. that they are able to import into Malta from overseas a minimum annual income of MTL 6,000, plus MTL 1,000 for each of their dependents. For the purposes of this scheme "dependents" mean: the spouse, children under 21 years of age and a parent or grand parent who is wholly dependent on the applicant.
Once in possession of the permit, the resident must within the first year from obtaining the permit:
3. either (aa) Purchase a flat valued at least MTL 30,000; or
(bb) Purchase a house valued at least MTL 50,000; or
(cc) Rent property for at least MTL 1,800 per annum.
4. annually remit to Malta from overseas a minimum income equivalent to MTL 6,000 plus MTL 1,000 for each dependent.
5. not engage in business or employment nor engage in any form of political activity in Malta. This general statement however is subject to the following clarification: the Permanent Resident cannot be employed by a Maltese person or Maltese registered company and cannot offer freelance services to Maltese persons or Maltese registered companies. However, Permanent Residents may use Malta as a base to work from, provided that they do not offer their services on the local market. Permanent residents may also be employed by or offer their freelance services to persons or companies outside Malta. Finally, Permanent Residents may be directors of International Trading or Holding Companies registered in Malta but may not be the beneficial shareholders.
Upon the death of the permanent resident, the residence permit is transmitted to the surviving spouse, but does not pass on to the descendants upon the death of the spouse."
"Conditions for obtaining a residence permit
While there is no minimum stay or residence required, when the permit is first issued the Permanent Resident must come to Malta at least once within the first twelve months to have the passport stamped and to register with the Inland Revenue Department. The permanent residence status is open to those foreigners who can provide evidence:
1. that they have an annual income equivalent to 10,000 Maltese lira (MTL, 1 MTL = approx. US$ 2.50), or that they own capital equivalent to MTL 150,000; and
2. that they are able to import into Malta from overseas a minimum annual income of MTL 6,000, plus MTL 1,000 for each of their dependents. For the purposes of this scheme "dependents" mean: the spouse, children under 21 years of age and a parent or grand parent who is wholly dependent on the applicant.
Once in possession of the permit, the resident must within the first year from obtaining the permit:
3. either (aa) Purchase a flat valued at least MTL 30,000; or
(bb) Purchase a house valued at least MTL 50,000; or
(cc) Rent property for at least MTL 1,800 per annum.
4. annually remit to Malta from overseas a minimum income equivalent to MTL 6,000 plus MTL 1,000 for each dependent.
5. not engage in business or employment nor engage in any form of political activity in Malta. This general statement however is subject to the following clarification: the Permanent Resident cannot be employed by a Maltese person or Maltese registered company and cannot offer freelance services to Maltese persons or Maltese registered companies. However, Permanent Residents may use Malta as a base to work from, provided that they do not offer their services on the local market. Permanent residents may also be employed by or offer their freelance services to persons or companies outside Malta. Finally, Permanent Residents may be directors of International Trading or Holding Companies registered in Malta but may not be the beneficial shareholders.
Upon the death of the permanent resident, the residence permit is transmitted to the surviving spouse, but does not pass on to the descendants upon the death of the spouse."
This site isn’t bad and it gives a good summary of the main regimes:
http://www.lowtax.net/
These people do the cheapest incorporations I’ve found so far:
https://www.e-offshore.net/Prices.asp
But, do beware:
http://investorsoffshore.com/offshorepress/story.asp
HTH
Cheers
Mayfly
http://www.lowtax.net/
These people do the cheapest incorporations I’ve found so far:
https://www.e-offshore.net/Prices.asp
But, do beware:
http://investorsoffshore.com/offshorepress/story.asp
HTH
Cheers
Mayfly
Anyone know of any arcades/prop shops operating in Malta or indeed any other interesting location to go and trade? (not necessarily low tax just good places to go and live/work)
eg
Mac - several (gibraltar, paris etc)
STA - Marbella (Monaco in the future i believe among others)
Optiver - Amsterdam
any others?
eg
Mac - several (gibraltar, paris etc)
STA - Marbella (Monaco in the future i believe among others)
Optiver - Amsterdam
any others?
alpha_monkey
Member
- Messages
- 97
- Likes
- 5
binsley said:Anyone know of any arcades/prop shops operating in Malta or indeed any other interesting location to go and trade? (not necessarily low tax just good places to go and live/work)
eg
Mac - several (gibraltar, paris etc)
STA - Marbella (Monaco in the future i believe among others)
Optiver - Amsterdam
any others?
An outfit in Malta with GHF connections.
http://www.seatra.net/dotcom_index.php
Similar threads
- Replies
- 17
- Views
- 14K
