Depth Trade
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I felt strange after eating a clam one time.
What do you wish you had been told?
- Thread starter MarketMoverTrader
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kimo'sabby
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Nothing. All the mistakes i made were down to my personality...i had to make them, it was written in the stars.
TheBramble
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Contempt your capacity to think,
Which is Man’s greatest power;
Welcome Misty things and sorcery
And the spirit of Illusion,
Then I shall get you surely enough.
Which is Man’s greatest power;
Welcome Misty things and sorcery
And the spirit of Illusion,
Then I shall get you surely enough.
HowardCohodas
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Darkness Over Tibet by Theodore Illion? Faust?
Naz
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If the company who teaches you to trade benefits from your commissions or any other form of your trading, go and find the best trader in that company befriend him and find out how he has adapted to the game.
Then play the things the way he does. When the company call you in and tell you that you are doing things the wrong way, smile and carry on doing them. You've found the way of trading that benefit's you and not them.
Then play the things the way he does. When the company call you in and tell you that you are doing things the wrong way, smile and carry on doing them. You've found the way of trading that benefit's you and not them.
TheBramble
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That Arabian really is a monkey and he like playing with his ring.
TheBramble
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Enter on the Right. Exit on the Left.
Gambling is not "Speculating". Speculating requires research. (In my opinion).
Speculating is not investing - Don't try and guess the way of the market - if long term its going up go up with it. If its going down go down with it. You only get paid for being right - Not for your opinion of a bull or bear market.
Never try to trend a trendless chart.
Bear and Bull markets last years in general. Never try get the top and the bottom - let everyone do that, its cheaper for you - let them take the risk.
If long - Buy on a rising scale at only a part of what you are willing to bet at pre-determined points e.g 1/5th per 5 points each (an point example). Then if it goes down you only lose 1/5th of what you would have bet and vice versa for shorting.
If it goes up then goes down your loss would offset your balance breaking even, but if the 2/5th went up you would get 2x what you would have done from that point - soon as it hits your highest stop loss from the last point get out the bet. Push the stop up to break even and then behind each last of 1/5th - 2/5th etc.
Never aveage a losing position.
Roll charges are a REAL expense. Spreads are a REAL expense.
I also prefer to use guarenteed stops. Its protection against bankrupty (of the share/down) and of mergers (of the share/up).
Most of all be patient. Let the market come to you at your own terms - and if you agree with it make an bid/offer. If your wrong don't take it personal and get out.
Plan your trades before you trade. Where to get in/where to get you.
Don't take "wise sayings" as gospel. For instance: "You can never go broke taking a small profit" - You can if you take a larger loss. (On average).
Remain Humble.
You DON'T have to trade.
Don't try to control things you can't. You have no influence over the market prices apart from the price you buy and sell. Everything else is outside your control in the market.
Its not who gets there fastest that matters its who gets there at the end.
Supply and Demand - why things move and basic underlying conditons.
However these are just my opinions. I am not an expert and i am always learning.
Oh yeah and write things down. You can tell there when you went wrong - you may be able to see bad habbits as they are/have formed.
Speculating is not investing - Don't try and guess the way of the market - if long term its going up go up with it. If its going down go down with it. You only get paid for being right - Not for your opinion of a bull or bear market.
Never try to trend a trendless chart.
Bear and Bull markets last years in general. Never try get the top and the bottom - let everyone do that, its cheaper for you - let them take the risk.
If long - Buy on a rising scale at only a part of what you are willing to bet at pre-determined points e.g 1/5th per 5 points each (an point example). Then if it goes down you only lose 1/5th of what you would have bet and vice versa for shorting.
If it goes up then goes down your loss would offset your balance breaking even, but if the 2/5th went up you would get 2x what you would have done from that point - soon as it hits your highest stop loss from the last point get out the bet. Push the stop up to break even and then behind each last of 1/5th - 2/5th etc.
Never aveage a losing position.
Roll charges are a REAL expense. Spreads are a REAL expense.
I also prefer to use guarenteed stops. Its protection against bankrupty (of the share/down) and of mergers (of the share/up).
Most of all be patient. Let the market come to you at your own terms - and if you agree with it make an bid/offer. If your wrong don't take it personal and get out.
Plan your trades before you trade. Where to get in/where to get you.
Don't take "wise sayings" as gospel. For instance: "You can never go broke taking a small profit" - You can if you take a larger loss. (On average).
Remain Humble.
You DON'T have to trade.
Don't try to control things you can't. You have no influence over the market prices apart from the price you buy and sell. Everything else is outside your control in the market.
Its not who gets there fastest that matters its who gets there at the end.
Supply and Demand - why things move and basic underlying conditons.
However these are just my opinions. I am not an expert and i am always learning.
Oh yeah and write things down. You can tell there when you went wrong - you may be able to see bad habbits as they are/have formed.
I agree with this.
A chef doesn't go into the kitchen and guess at his favourite recipe. He wrote it down. If he wants to improve the recipe, he knows what ingredients/temperatures etc were used last time as a reference. If his new recipe is worse than the original, he's only has one step backward instead of starting again from scratch.
Took me a while to learn this one. Journal writing sounded boring.
TheBramble
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Take a test drive. A long one.
TheBramble
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And finally on this topic (from me at any rate)…
Losers react, winners anticipate and wait for early confirmation.
Forget the news, remember the chart. You're not smart enough to know how news will affect price. The chart already knows the news is coming.
When the market opens above where the bulk of yesterday's trading took place - then, when it trades down to the high of that area, if it does not bounce, but instead starts trading through that level, it is likely to go all the way down and test the lows of that area. When the market opens below where the bulk of yesterday's trading took place - then, when it trades up to the low of that area, if it does not bounce, but instead starts trading through that level, it is likely to go all the way up and test the highs of that area.
Buy the first pullback from a new high. Sell the first pullback from a new low.
Traders who make money do so because they have identified an edge, and then trade only when that edge occurs, using good risk management to control losses. If you are a loser, it is most likely that you either do not have an edge, or trade without an edge, or use poor risk management. This is usually due to lack of market experience/knowledge, failure to apply and learn from that experience, or poor emotional control.
{This is a transcription from a genuine conversation. I was the one asking the questions…it was a long time ago…}
If you have put on a position, and then start to feel a bit of pain, usually it is best to get out immediately. The best positions cause you no pain at all, but just go your way with hardly a blip. Does this mean getting out before it hits my initial stop? Yes. I don’t know too many successful traders that will typically allow their full stop to be taken…Then why don’t they place their stop where they’ll get out if they ‘feel a bit of pain’? Because they all have different levels of appetite for risk and levels of caution and the degree of pain they feel is dynamic and as a result of price action, not price levels so will be totally dependent upon ‘how’ the price moves after they enter rather than where. Doesn’t this mean they’re typically trading smaller size than theoretically they could? Yes. Does this make them schmucks? Probably. But they’re wealthy schmucks and they don’t care. Their risk isn’t fixed. They know when to go large and when to keep small. Their winning trades tend to outnumber their losing trades and they tend to win more on a winning trade than they lose on a losing trade. It’s just numbers. They all add up. That’s all. Couldn’t I trade a system which had more losing trades than winning trades, but have the winners make much more than the losers in terms of P&L and therefore have a system with a positive expectancy? Yes, you could, theoretically, but why would you want to? The whole point is to get it right more often than not – not be righter than you are wronger when you occasionally get it right. Plus entering and exiting a trade takes energy. You’ll find your energy levels are increased by winning trades and diminished by losing trades regardless of your beliefs in your ability to handle emotions during trading and the apparent comfort of positive expectancy will not count for as much after a long losing streak as you might imagine.
Losers react, winners anticipate and wait for early confirmation.
Forget the news, remember the chart. You're not smart enough to know how news will affect price. The chart already knows the news is coming.
When the market opens above where the bulk of yesterday's trading took place - then, when it trades down to the high of that area, if it does not bounce, but instead starts trading through that level, it is likely to go all the way down and test the lows of that area. When the market opens below where the bulk of yesterday's trading took place - then, when it trades up to the low of that area, if it does not bounce, but instead starts trading through that level, it is likely to go all the way up and test the highs of that area.
Buy the first pullback from a new high. Sell the first pullback from a new low.
Traders who make money do so because they have identified an edge, and then trade only when that edge occurs, using good risk management to control losses. If you are a loser, it is most likely that you either do not have an edge, or trade without an edge, or use poor risk management. This is usually due to lack of market experience/knowledge, failure to apply and learn from that experience, or poor emotional control.
{This is a transcription from a genuine conversation. I was the one asking the questions…it was a long time ago…}
If you have put on a position, and then start to feel a bit of pain, usually it is best to get out immediately. The best positions cause you no pain at all, but just go your way with hardly a blip. Does this mean getting out before it hits my initial stop? Yes. I don’t know too many successful traders that will typically allow their full stop to be taken…Then why don’t they place their stop where they’ll get out if they ‘feel a bit of pain’? Because they all have different levels of appetite for risk and levels of caution and the degree of pain they feel is dynamic and as a result of price action, not price levels so will be totally dependent upon ‘how’ the price moves after they enter rather than where. Doesn’t this mean they’re typically trading smaller size than theoretically they could? Yes. Does this make them schmucks? Probably. But they’re wealthy schmucks and they don’t care. Their risk isn’t fixed. They know when to go large and when to keep small. Their winning trades tend to outnumber their losing trades and they tend to win more on a winning trade than they lose on a losing trade. It’s just numbers. They all add up. That’s all. Couldn’t I trade a system which had more losing trades than winning trades, but have the winners make much more than the losers in terms of P&L and therefore have a system with a positive expectancy? Yes, you could, theoretically, but why would you want to? The whole point is to get it right more often than not – not be righter than you are wronger when you occasionally get it right. Plus entering and exiting a trade takes energy. You’ll find your energy levels are increased by winning trades and diminished by losing trades regardless of your beliefs in your ability to handle emotions during trading and the apparent comfort of positive expectancy will not count for as much after a long losing streak as you might imagine.
TheBramble
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Oh, and finally finally....
Don't visit on-line trading bulletin boards or chat rooms....
edit: just in case this post gets hijacked be ne'er-do-wells (sneer do wells?): it was delivered with a large dose of, I would have thought fairly obvious, humour.
Don't visit on-line trading bulletin boards or chat rooms....
edit: just in case this post gets hijacked be ne'er-do-wells (sneer do wells?): it was delivered with a large dose of, I would have thought fairly obvious, humour.
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the hare
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timsk
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Bit of a catch-22 here chaps!
Given the above, dare I suggest a revision along the lines of: 'treat all comments on trading bulletin boards with a pinch of salt and don't act on anything you read until you're as certain as you can be of it's validity and applicability to your trading beliefs and objectives'.
Tim.
Doomberg
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I think this is not completely correct, i have had some good advice from people on here, and studying ones that are doing well always helps in any business sector, just got to sift through the bullsh!t... someone started a convo with me on Skype the other week, had an hours convo about trading and a certain EA and about how good it was, and then i find out that they are an affiliate
the hare
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Not really. Once you know the score forums are highly reccommended, but until that point they are a cancer.
Forums are the biggest obstacle standing in the way of anyone success, for reasons that I've covered previously, but mainly due to the role they play in setting unrealistic expectations.
Its actually a lot more sinister than just that, but discussing the hiden adgenda tends to upset certain people so I wont.
TheBramble
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...unless you are intelligent enough to be able to recognise, over time, what makes sense, who makes sense and take what works for you and make it your own and unless you have a sense of humour and can take a joke as easily as make one...
TheBramble
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Bunny, why don't you give it a break?
The only cancer on here are those that eat away at everything - good and bad - without distinction or discrimination.
the hare
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Because unlike most, I'm a kind and generous creature who likes to help others.
I've been in the Forex for over a year now and I hope beginners read my post before they get scammed.
Automated signal services:
Do not ever use any automated signal service. All of those sites you see are traded on demo accounts and you will never see the same results on a live account, especially for scalping systems.
EA's:
If you are not willing to learn how to trade then your only hope would be to use an EA and again the only way to find a profitable EA is to back test it using tick level data and then forward test it on a LIVE account, avoid nano accounts as brokers are already aware that people use these for forward testing.
Ignore all demo and live accounts on the internet, 99% of them are fake:
Demo account testing is 100% meaningless and ALL live account stats are rigged, it is easy to rig up an MT4 server and feed the client false info which can then be directed to myfxbook. If you do not have the time to backtest and forward test an EA for yourself, then you should not be trading EA's, you will 100% blow up your account.
Free holy grail systems / community websites discussing free systems:
As with all commercial EA's all free EA's and free "honest communities" discussing free systems are 100% scams and only there to part you from your money. All free systems will be stealthed amoungst some upsell, for example someone may recommend an indicator that works better with the free system. Those who are honest will always be overshadowed by dishonest marketeers or people connected to the said marketeers.
I know this sounds dishearting but I've been following the forex for over a year and have seen the same old scams recycled over and over again. It's a never ending system because as old people leave they are replaced by newbies. The only way to survive in this market is to assume that 100% of the participants are scammers, that includes everyone on this forum, your broker, meta trader, and even your bank. Sure there might be a nice 5% but the probablility that you are going to learn from that 5% before blowing up your account on scams is so far against you that statistically roulette has better odds.
Forums / websites:
When ever money is discussed, as in how many pips can I make, what did you make, what will this EA make etc. The number 1 rule is this: IGNORE that person.
Forum rule 1: Never take advice from anybody. If they have over 500 posts you may "consider" their opinion but absolutely 100% not if it involves you buying a product, broker, system or service.
Forum rule 2: Never trust a "respected member", most respected members eventually turn out to be scammers with too much time on their hands. If a respected member ever "recommends" a system place them on permanent ignore.
Forum rule 3: Assume all admins and moderators are scammers or affiliate marketers. The main goal of all website owners is to make money through ad revenue and / or affiliate marketing.
Forum rule 4: Assume all rating sites such as forex peace army are rigged. These sites are financed by stealth affiliate marketing, stealth meaning the owners are paid behind our backs to promote certain products.
You can make a lot of money in this market, but it really is a lonesome journey, sure have fun with other traders never ever trust them, it's a jungle out there and if this world wasn't virtual you can gaurantee the majority of people here would have no quarms in physically stealing your wallet from you.
The only way to make money in forex is to completely ignore everybody else and systematically test theories until you find something that makes money.
Affiliates:
Do not sign up to any service promoted or sold by affiliates. I assume most people on the internet know this rule nowdays.
Brokers:
All non ECN + STP brokers are scams, period. In my time in forex I've found only 2 decent brokers, go markets and dukascopy however you should still ignore my advice as I could be scamming (employee's are paid by the brokers to post on these forums). The no 1 rule here is never join a broker because it has been recommended on forex peace army or a forum.
I know this post will attract a lot of negative replies from the scammers, I just hope that as a newbie and hopefully an intelligent person who's yet to be desensitized to logic by the community you can see the common sense in my post.
I know as a beginner you don't want to believe it, it's far nicer and less stresssfull to assume that everybody is really friendly and we all live in castles thanks to our scalping EA's but the truth is a very different picture. Most of the people who post on forex forums are desperate individuals living in 3rd world countries who would do anything just to have enough money to put food on the table. Desperate times mean desperate measures. If you don't believe me try fasting for a week and you'll soon see.
I saw a very similar post to mine when I first started and thought "sore looser" and thus I chose to ignore that person and ended up blowing up my account. After a whole year of constant headache and stress I'm just starting to head into profit, and no thanks to any forum, EA or system. Sure you can get a few pips from a couple of EA's but the risk has to be so low that it's hardly even worth bothering.
So I ask one final time, please please PLEASE take my advice and have a long hard think before you get involved with this industry, the journey is going to be long and hard and expect to devote your whole life to screen time. I mean you need a whole year in front of the screen, 7 days a week. Forex trading is a LOT harder than stock trading so if you suck at stocks don't think for a second you'll ever make anything here.
Automated signal services:
Do not ever use any automated signal service. All of those sites you see are traded on demo accounts and you will never see the same results on a live account, especially for scalping systems.
EA's:
If you are not willing to learn how to trade then your only hope would be to use an EA and again the only way to find a profitable EA is to back test it using tick level data and then forward test it on a LIVE account, avoid nano accounts as brokers are already aware that people use these for forward testing.
Ignore all demo and live accounts on the internet, 99% of them are fake:
Demo account testing is 100% meaningless and ALL live account stats are rigged, it is easy to rig up an MT4 server and feed the client false info which can then be directed to myfxbook. If you do not have the time to backtest and forward test an EA for yourself, then you should not be trading EA's, you will 100% blow up your account.
Free holy grail systems / community websites discussing free systems:
As with all commercial EA's all free EA's and free "honest communities" discussing free systems are 100% scams and only there to part you from your money. All free systems will be stealthed amoungst some upsell, for example someone may recommend an indicator that works better with the free system. Those who are honest will always be overshadowed by dishonest marketeers or people connected to the said marketeers.
I know this sounds dishearting but I've been following the forex for over a year and have seen the same old scams recycled over and over again. It's a never ending system because as old people leave they are replaced by newbies. The only way to survive in this market is to assume that 100% of the participants are scammers, that includes everyone on this forum, your broker, meta trader, and even your bank. Sure there might be a nice 5% but the probablility that you are going to learn from that 5% before blowing up your account on scams is so far against you that statistically roulette has better odds.
Forums / websites:
When ever money is discussed, as in how many pips can I make, what did you make, what will this EA make etc. The number 1 rule is this: IGNORE that person.
Forum rule 1: Never take advice from anybody. If they have over 500 posts you may "consider" their opinion but absolutely 100% not if it involves you buying a product, broker, system or service.
Forum rule 2: Never trust a "respected member", most respected members eventually turn out to be scammers with too much time on their hands. If a respected member ever "recommends" a system place them on permanent ignore.
Forum rule 3: Assume all admins and moderators are scammers or affiliate marketers. The main goal of all website owners is to make money through ad revenue and / or affiliate marketing.
Forum rule 4: Assume all rating sites such as forex peace army are rigged. These sites are financed by stealth affiliate marketing, stealth meaning the owners are paid behind our backs to promote certain products.
You can make a lot of money in this market, but it really is a lonesome journey, sure have fun with other traders never ever trust them, it's a jungle out there and if this world wasn't virtual you can gaurantee the majority of people here would have no quarms in physically stealing your wallet from you.
The only way to make money in forex is to completely ignore everybody else and systematically test theories until you find something that makes money.
Affiliates:
Do not sign up to any service promoted or sold by affiliates. I assume most people on the internet know this rule nowdays.
Brokers:
All non ECN + STP brokers are scams, period. In my time in forex I've found only 2 decent brokers, go markets and dukascopy however you should still ignore my advice as I could be scamming (employee's are paid by the brokers to post on these forums). The no 1 rule here is never join a broker because it has been recommended on forex peace army or a forum.
I know this post will attract a lot of negative replies from the scammers, I just hope that as a newbie and hopefully an intelligent person who's yet to be desensitized to logic by the community you can see the common sense in my post.
I know as a beginner you don't want to believe it, it's far nicer and less stresssfull to assume that everybody is really friendly and we all live in castles thanks to our scalping EA's but the truth is a very different picture. Most of the people who post on forex forums are desperate individuals living in 3rd world countries who would do anything just to have enough money to put food on the table. Desperate times mean desperate measures. If you don't believe me try fasting for a week and you'll soon see.
I saw a very similar post to mine when I first started and thought "sore looser" and thus I chose to ignore that person and ended up blowing up my account. After a whole year of constant headache and stress I'm just starting to head into profit, and no thanks to any forum, EA or system. Sure you can get a few pips from a couple of EA's but the risk has to be so low that it's hardly even worth bothering.
So I ask one final time, please please PLEASE take my advice and have a long hard think before you get involved with this industry, the journey is going to be long and hard and expect to devote your whole life to screen time. I mean you need a whole year in front of the screen, 7 days a week. Forex trading is a LOT harder than stock trading so if you suck at stocks don't think for a second you'll ever make anything here.
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