Want to be a trader? Learn to be a loser...

It is no good just taking your losers..unless you improve your timing..which is crucial..you will just bleed more slowly..until your heart stops pumping!

start with the ADR..then you have a reference point..no good looking to make $2..if 50cent is the average

you have to do some work..for..if you sit on your ass..like everyone else..then you will get what everyone else gets

a good starting point is the 30 day ADR..which can be then fine tuned based on the last 5 days..but you must learn to crawl before you walk..let alone run!
 
I do agree that you need to be willing to tolerate and accept failure in order to be a great trader but learning to be a loser is just misleading advice. Your money is at stake so why should you not play to win?
 
Firstly the initial literature here being discussed is true .......it's a little generic as an analogy.....but what isn't ?.......it's,just a message to realise that you cannot be perfect in anything you do and to accept the challenges and setbacks as part of the journey

Oops another analogy creeping in........

The human race is actually geared to,tell,stories .......that's how we teach our young......so analogies,will,always be part of the story telling process .......full stop

The key messages here are that

Trading is an imperfect science and you will have losses,,,,,,get used to it
The losses will reduce over time with improved systems and experience and edge
If they are not then stop,trading and find something else to,do,re income generation
We are not all,born traders and only a small % make the cut long term......fact

N
 
What most wannabe novice traders do not realise is that the basic rules,systems and strategies needed to be successful are pretty straightforward......most novices will have been through the basics inside 6m to a year with some broad reading and research......

Or if you pay someone a few thousand bucks they will show you all the general,approaches as well......which is what all the vendors are really doing guys.....and it's all available for free !!

The real journey begins then

Find your edge/ improve your edge
Hone your execution skills to the max

Then just trade and trade and trade until your fingers bleed........screen time is what it's all,about.......thousands of hours and thousands of trades.....nothing beats it

N
 
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Trading is a risk. I'm also a beginner here and I think, no one could be perfect with it. I think, the best thing to do is just to be aware of all the important aspects of trading as well as the strategy that you must follow closely in order to have the big chances of winning instead of losing.
 
thanks for the comments guys. Glad to see the thread is still somewhat alive.

Unfortunately I think that most (not all) of the responses suggest that the message hasn't really got across. It's been a year so about time I wrote another post i think in an effort to try again to make my point.

Let me ask a question in preparation for that though...

You are offered an opportunity to have $1m invested for you in one of two funds. Which would you choose?
1.
Total return 15%/annum
Max drawdown 5%
Win Ratio 75%

2.
Total return 15%/annum
Max drawdown 5%
Win Ratio 30%

nb. Win ratio = number of winners/total trades taken

edit: can you justify your choice?


Looking forward to your answers!

CR
 
I'd fire the guy investing for me and keep the million. I will then use 100k of that million to trade for myself.

The thing is if you learn to be a loser, you will be a loser. Learn to be a winner instead. A winner will defeat those who try to take money from him.

The reason people accept being a loser is because they already are. I don't see why then they need to learn to be one.
 
EnlightenedJoe said:
I'd fire the guy investing for me and keep the million. I will then use 100k of that million to trade for myself.

The thing is if you learn to be a loser, you will be a loser. Learn to be a winner instead. A winner will defeat those who try to take money from him.

The reason people accept being a loser is because they already are. I don't see why then they need to learn to be one.
Click to expand...

That's for your reply Joe. Few things;
- I feel you may not have understood what I'm saying when I say learn to be a Loser. I'm not sure though. Just for my guide, what % of your trades are profitable? Do you think that is likely to remain constant, go up, or go down over time?
- how much would you expect to make per year with that 100k? Would you expect to make that every year? Every other year?
- why did you choose 100k?

Maybe learn to take losses is a better way of saying it. Learn to be a Loser is much better click bait tho eh. Let's be honest.

Don't be a Loser Joe. Be a winner. But learn to take losses.
 
My future win rate is unknown, but I like high rates. If aggression is modest 1000% a year is reasonable.

100k is adequate given the rate of return. It also gives room for a 100k reserve, or 200k reserve if aggression is in play. The rest of the money to live on while waiting for the trading profit to come on stream.

Learning to buy at 10 and sell at 5 (stop loss) makes a winner ? Would you like to buy from me and sell to me instead ? I will offer better commission rates than your existing broker.
 
EnlightenedJoe said:
My future win rate is unknown, but I like high rates. If aggression is modest 1000% a year is reasonable.

100k is adequate given the rate of return. It also gives room for a 100k reserve, or 200k reserve if aggression is in play. The rest of the money to live on while waiting for the trading profit to come on stream.

Learning to buy at 10 and sell at 5 (stop loss) makes a winner ? Would you like to buy from me and sell to me instead ? I will offer better commission rates than your existing broker.
Click to expand...

Nice chatting with you Joe. Best of luck with it all.
 
EnlightenedJoe said:
My future win rate is unknown, but I like high rates. If aggression is modest 1000% a year is reasonable.

100k is adequate given the rate of return. It also gives room for a 100k reserve, or 200k reserve if aggression is in play. The rest of the money to live on while waiting for the trading profit to come on stream.

Learning to buy at 10 and sell at 5 (stop loss) makes a winner ? Would you like to buy from me and sell to me instead ? I will offer better commission rates than your existing broker.
Click to expand...
.
 

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Come on guys - you all know there are no such things as losers on the internet. There are only loosers.
 
As I always say to myself, I like getting stopped. Tells me I'm placing not too few trades :D
 
Not sure if I have mentioned this before but here goes.

Learning to lose really falls into the category of psychology which is useless on its own. This is the same as trading technically without knowing what the market is doing. Knowing what the market is doing requires research and an ear on news. Without doing this you are trading blind. It's all about working out what others are thinking (by others I mean the big players). Those traders pay thousands of pounds for news services and analysts that disect sentiment and give them an idea what to do. Trading with a mindset of leaning how to lose is not going to get anyone anywhere.
 
forker said:
Not sure if I have mentioned this before but here goes.

Learning to lose really falls into the category of psychology which is useless on its own. This is the same as trading technically without knowing what the market is doing. Knowing what the market is doing requires research and an ear on news. Without doing this you are trading blind. It's all about working out what others are thinking (by others I mean the big players). Those traders pay thousands of pounds for news services and analysts that disect sentiment and give them an idea what to do. Trading with a mindset of leaning how to lose is not going to get anyone anywhere.
Click to expand...

Nope. You've missed the point. Again. Stop trying to "know what the market is doing" whatever that means. Of course trading is more than being able to take losing trades. You need a methodology, a framework, but there ain't no way to "know what the market is doing" every time you take a trade. So you had better get used to losing money.

Always interested to hear big players mentioned. Who and what do you mean by big players dissecting sentiment?

No disrespect but what you're saying is just wrong. The longer you go on trying to work out how to be right, the longer it will take for you to become profitable and the more likely you are to give up.

Give up on the big guys concept. Assuming we are talking liquid macro markets, it's a pretty even playing field. Sure there are some round table dinners with central bank members that average Joe won't be involved with but generally speaking everyone is in the same boat when it comes to manual discretionary risk taking. The best big guys are wrong most of the time so why waste your time trying to second guess them?
 
Good read ... basic stuff but apparently many traders dont know this .
 
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