Vto 5 day rsi system

[mr_cassandra]

Morning and thanks for your response

this vto stuff is just a trick. the results bear no relation to real trading.

I have found that in the past I have learned a great deal from the research of others, as well as my own.

Can you give me a thumbnail sketch of how you checked on their system and came to that conclusion?

If possible let me know the exact historical prices download you used as well as the RSI formula you applied. I've seen cases in my own diligence where the rsi formula varied widely when sourced from different sites.

That way I can match up to your findings. I look forward to reviewing your due diligence on this subject and going over all the research you did.

Tia mrc

 

[zab]

On the VTO website it says...

• Buy the Nasdaq 100 Trust (QQQ) when the 5-day Relative Strength Index (RSI) closes below 30.0.
• Sell the Nasdaq 100 Trust (QQQ) when the 5-day Relative Strength Index (RSI) closes above 50.0.

However, the results they give are for them buying and selling the actual index (which isn't possible). If you actually do the trading on the QQQQ all their profits are overstated and all their losses are understated.

The VTO system is loss making. The results they give are just a trick.

 

[mr_cassandra]

Where did you download the historical data

And can you detail which rsi formula you used? I want to exactly replicate the way you checked this.

Thanks! mrc

On the VTO website it says...

• Buy the Nasdaq 100 Trust (QQQ) when the 5-day Relative Strength Index (RSI) closes below 30.0.
• Sell the Nasdaq 100 Trust (QQQ) when the 5-day Relative Strength Index (RSI) closes above 50.0.

However, the results they give are for them buying and selling the actual index (which isn't possible). If you actually do the trading on the QQQQ all their profits are overstated and all their losses are understated.

The VTO system is loss making. The results they give are just a trick.

 

[the blades]

However, the results they give are for them buying and selling the actual index (which isn't possible). If you actually do the trading on the QQQQ all their profits are overstated and all their losses are understated.

The VTO system is loss making. The results they give are just a trick.

It's true that you can't trade the index but (unlike many other systems) if you repeat the study using futures data, the results are similar to those stated.

UTB

 

[mr_cassandra]

Hopefully when he supplies data & formula

It's true that you can't trade the index but (unlike many other systems) if you repeat the study using futures data, the results are similar to those stated.

UTB

I will be able to replicate how he did the research and came up with that conclusion. First. when he has time I need the exact data he used and the formula he used.

It will be interesting to check his research work he did.

 

[zab]

It's true that you can't trade the index but (unlike many other systems) if you repeat the study using futures data, the results are similar to those stated.

UTB

I can't find any variations that are even remotely similar to VTO's reported results for the NDX/QQQQ. Even with futures the system has been flat from around the end of 2001.

Dow variations are even worse.

Only SPX variations seem to have any hope! But even the best results have >50% drawdowns. Perhaps with some proper stops and money management...

 

[mr_cassandra]

I have asked at least twice

For the historical data you downloaded to do your own due diligence as well as the rsi formula you were using. At this point I will have to conclude that you have been giving an un-researched opinion. I'd have been glad to check if you gave me anywhere to check.

I can't find any variations that are even remotely similar to VTO's reported results for the NDX/QQQQ. Even with futures the system has been flat from around the end of 2001.

Dow variations are even worse.

Only SPX variations seem to have any hope! But even the best results have >50% drawdowns. Perhaps with some proper stops and money management...

 

[zab]

mr_cassandra - Look on the VTO website. They're trading the NDX. That's not possible. If you take their signals, but instead use them to trade the QQQQ you will get completely different results from those given. Simple.

 

[mr_cassandra]

Have you checked the qqqq numbers for yourself?

mr_cassandra - Look on the VTO website. They're trading the NDX. That's not possible. If you take their signals, but instead use them to trade the QQQQ you will get completely different results from those given. Simple.

Yes or no will do. All I'm asking is if you have done the diligence before making your opinion. Only facts and research count.

 

[zab]

yes

 

[mr_cassandra]

Excellent

Now please tell me how I can verify your work thru my own due diligence. To do so I need to use the same data source and formula that you used.

yes

 

[the blades]

Hello,

Has anyone any idea what's happened to the VTO website - has it closed?

Cheers,
UTB

 

[mr_cassandra]

vto's site has been down several days

I don't know what happened to it but being as the system was free and public, one can continue to follow/improve on it without the site. I post at Ihub a lot and had to remind a one poster about that. he was all worried how would you know when to sell the latest signal and I said easy, watch any public chart of qqqq and if she nears cloosing at rsi 5 50 or better, sell right after close. Saw one poster at cs who staysed another day then closed public trades even better.

Hello,

Has anyone any idea what's happened to the VTO website - has it closed?

Cheers,
UTB

 

[the blades]

I don't know what happened to it but being as the system was free and public, one can continue to follow/improve on it without the site. I post at Ihub a lot and had to remind a one poster about that. he was all worried how would you know when to sell the latest signal and I said easy, watch any public chart of qqqq and if she nears cloosing at rsi 5 50 or better, sell right after close. Saw one poster at cs who staysed another day then closed public trades even better.

Agreed Steve,

I actually operate a (very) slightly modified version of this - though I don't need the website for my signals I was just curious.

Seems to be a very simple, easy and profitable system to use for a bit of fun - I'm waiting for the catch.

Cheers,
UTB

 

[mr_cassandra]

Opinion on the catch

Imo, the catch is that you can't use 30/50 as a fixed setting good for all situations. Diligence on past vto signals shows some significant losses and/or drawdowns. (which can be avoided thru constructive improvements) You need to develop a method for detrrmining bull/bear trend so you can sell higher and buy lower, depending on trend. I'm finding swenlins oscillators at decisionpoint.com are very helpful in the aspect.

Agreed Steve,

I actually operate a (very) slightly modified version of this - though I don't need the website for my signals I was just curious.

Seems to be a very simple, easy and profitable system to use for a bit of fun - I'm waiting for the catch.

Cheers,
UTB

 

[the blades]

Imo, the catch is that you can't use 30/50 as a fixed setting good for all situations. Diligence on past vto signals shows some significant losses and/or drawdowns. (which can be avoided thru constructive improvements) You need to develop a method for detrrmining bull/bear trend so you can sell higher and buy lower, depending on trend. I'm finding swenlins oscillators at decisionpoint.com are very helpful in the aspect.

Are you actually trading this now? Do you also use the hourly system?

Cheers,
UTB

 

[mr_cassandra]

I use my own program, mvp signal system

I have been working on it since late 2000 and recently begain to use proprietary indicators from decisionpoint.com to do even better.

I am a fan of all mechanical systems and discussion thereof but also a builder of my own.

Are you actually trading this now? Do you also use the hourly system?

Cheers,
UTB

 

[the blades]

I have been working on it since late 2000 and recently begain to use proprietary indicators from decisionpoint.com to do even better.

I am a fan of all mechanical systems and discussion thereof but also a builder of my own.

So you use your own system and the rsi system - any others and if so, how many? What % do you "invest" in each and how did you decide that.

I have 5 systems that I use - with one being the backbone. My allocation is more on gut feel, but I'm looking into ways of improving on this. The trouble is the other systrems don't improve on the equity curve of the main one. But I don't want to rely soley on the historical performance of one system.

Cheers,
UTB

 

[mr_cassandra]

Only use my own program, no one else's

Even though vto's end of day produces much less than my own program, Its a model of simplicity in comparison. I wrote my own program to mechanize ideas I had always followed but to take 'me' and my emotions OUT of the decision loop.

So you use your own system and the rsi system - any others and if so, how many? What % do you "invest" in each and how did you decide that.

I have 5 systems that I use - with one being the backbone. My allocation is more on gut feel, but I'm looking into ways of improving on this. The trouble is the other systrems don't improve on the equity curve of the main one. But I don't want to rely soley on the historical performance of one system.

Cheers,
UTB

 

[the blades]

Even though vto's end of day produces much less than my own program, Its a model of simplicity in comparison. I wrote my own program to mechanize ideas I had always followed but to take 'me' and my emotions OUT of the decision loop.

The thing about VTO (my version anyway) is that you might expect about 15% return per year - but it's only in the market 15% of the time. The RAR is potentially fantastic. I find the infrequency of trades difficult (I "fall to sleep"), and also lumping on one index difficult. But it's a great bolt on.

All the best,
UTB