Yes, but but at the slightest hint they may be doing so a hoard of self appointed minders will wade in and pour scorn on the 'detractors' (the word they use) who dare question their revered guru who posts here only for the benefit of others.nobrainer said:
"who posts here only for the benefit of others." ....nobody posts here only for the benefit of others and I will invite anyone who disgrees with that statement ,revered or not , to discuss exactly why they think so. The issue is not are they posting for the benefit of others so much as why are they posting , what exactly is it they are deriving from posting ? When you phrase it that way , the 'reward' can take various forms from monetary gain through to satisfaction in helping others not of course missing one other which features large , to satisfy personal shortcomings that they cannot do within their life dealt with on a face to face daily basis. It's a common saying nonetheless true that anyone on the web has an agenda. Finding it is the 'fun'.
The excercise for any one who does not wish to be 'sold' a bill of goods is to find a way to differentiate posters in the above way and respond accordingly in the way you choose to to interact with same , or not (ignore) as the case may be. One might even say this is a 'good' way to separate the intentional "clowns" from the inadvertent "fools".
The excercise for any one who does not wish to be 'sold' a bill of goods is to find a way to differentiate posters in the above way and respond accordingly in the way you choose to to interact with same , or not (ignore) as the case may be. One might even say this is a 'good' way to separate the intentional "clowns" from the inadvertent "fools".
Over the Top
Junior member
- Messages
- 47
- Likes
- 1
Luckily the minders of these gurus on these boards only pour scorn. In slightly earlier times, Mr. Rook used to do far more than pour scorn on detractors.LevII said:
The better way may be to clean up T2W by getting rid of the vendors (the site operators know who they are) or, better still, charging them per post and marking their posts as advertising. The revenue derived could be used to provide 'premium services' free of charge.
Any response from the vendors themselves rather than their minders?
Over the Top
Junior member
- Messages
- 47
- Likes
- 1
LevII, there's no indication that SOCRATES is a vendor, these days, of anything, worthwhile. Or ever was in retrospect. The 'cleaning up' of untrammelled pointlessness and provocation was I thought the main thrust of what was being discussed on this thread.
It does seem that some members generate more heat than light. And while there is no excuse for a genuine transgression of site guidelines and nobody can complain if they are appropriately treated in such circumstances, there is a case for limiting the provocation some members seem to enjoy dishing out without restraint in pushing others too far. We can all see it coming. And very little is done until too late, and usually then, quite the wrong thing.
If the prefects are going to act like prefects, they should perhaps consider coming out into the playground at break as well as after school and taking the bullies to one side, or perhaps even round the back of the bike shed and give them a 'good talking to' rather than teaming up with them.
In my days, the one throwing the first punch, however clothed in velvet glove, was the one to be expelled - not the ones who retaliate or defend themselves.
It does seem that some members generate more heat than light. And while there is no excuse for a genuine transgression of site guidelines and nobody can complain if they are appropriately treated in such circumstances, there is a case for limiting the provocation some members seem to enjoy dishing out without restraint in pushing others too far. We can all see it coming. And very little is done until too late, and usually then, quite the wrong thing.
If the prefects are going to act like prefects, they should perhaps consider coming out into the playground at break as well as after school and taking the bullies to one side, or perhaps even round the back of the bike shed and give them a 'good talking to' rather than teaming up with them.
In my days, the one throwing the first punch, however clothed in velvet glove, was the one to be expelled - not the ones who retaliate or defend themselves.
It was simply an observation following posts 181 & 182.Over the Top said:
As to SOCRATES' contributions to the pool of wisdom (untrammelled pointlessness and provocation?) this could be dealt with easily by taking the red pencil to his posts (deleting them). It's all very well to say he can simply be ignored but his interventions in otherwise worthwhile discussions are so intrusive they cannot conveniently be dealt with that way.
LevII said:
Have a look at ET, Socrates has made a contribution there as well (using two names Socrates & Chief Wizard) other posters are allowed to be aggressive back to him & they have been, so he now keeps a low profile (he seems to have had his wings clipped). On t2w as I said earlier people who disagree with him simply get banned.
On ET you will soon realise that they are many worse posters then Socrates (they make him look cuddly). English does not seem to be his mother tongue (it`s either French or Spanish) thats why his use of the language is unusual & it may well explain his ramblings.
Some of the things he says make sense & can be rewarding, he is certainly a very interesting character not everyones cup of tea though. As I said earlier if you don`t like him just ignore him.
This thread seems to have come around to most of the same conclusions as previous threads, mentioned above, regarding "socrates". Namely the guy is a snake oil salesman with a dubious track record, period the end. (it has been mentioned b4 but check out ref. to chief wizard over on elite.). Snake oil salesmen by definition tell you what you want to hear, even if it is couched in a manner that disguises this fact. (cf A Blair: "I don't want to go to war"), so it is perhaps no surprise that there are acolytes.
However the most most important conclusion we seem to have reached is the fact that the independence of the "moderators" and and/or the owners of T2W is perhaps now being called into question.
Now that is much more interesting!
Given the recent proposition raised elesewhere (cleaning up T2W) to perhaps charge a subscription (to listen to Socrates? - he was the first to second the suggestion)) on part of the site, however couched, might be viewed with more than its fair share of cynicism.
However the most most important conclusion we seem to have reached is the fact that the independence of the "moderators" and and/or the owners of T2W is perhaps now being called into question.
Now that is much more interesting!
Given the recent proposition raised elesewhere (cleaning up T2W) to perhaps charge a subscription (to listen to Socrates? - he was the first to second the suggestion)) on part of the site, however couched, might be viewed with more than its fair share of cynicism.
Last edited:
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
jimbo57 said:
No, what is very interesting is that everything is laid right in front of you and you prevent yourself from seeing it owing to your own perceptual bias.
But I am not going to see it for you. You just look, carefully and diligently and I hope for your sake that you are able to find it eventually.
My very good wishes to you in your quest.
Over the Top
Junior member
- Messages
- 47
- Likes
- 1
There were quite a few round the turn of the millennium looking diligently and hoping to find things. What they sought had run off to Guernsey. I'm not suggesting we attempt to evade the situation. I wouldn't want to tax you too much. But with a Grey man cooking the books, it shouldn't take too long to find some PALS. Is there any foundation in there somewhere?SOCRATES said:
JumpOff
1
- Messages
- 702
- Likes
- 14
who is selling what?
We have no indication that Socrates is selling anything. He owns the rights to version 4 and has sold it in the past, but to my knowledge has never offered it (nor paid coaching) to anyone here. On the other hand, VSATrader has a financial interest in the current version of TradeGuider and it is being marketed today.
The mods are discussing ways to make it more obvious who is a poster with a commercial interest, and who is not. Several of our commercial posters have solid products and contribute greatly to the site, and some of them use the site for nothing more than trolling for the next sucker for their worthless schemes. It is always useful to 'follow the money.' An obvious label might help make it easier to suss out the poster's intent.
JO
We have no indication that Socrates is selling anything. He owns the rights to version 4 and has sold it in the past, but to my knowledge has never offered it (nor paid coaching) to anyone here. On the other hand, VSATrader has a financial interest in the current version of TradeGuider and it is being marketed today.
The mods are discussing ways to make it more obvious who is a poster with a commercial interest, and who is not. Several of our commercial posters have solid products and contribute greatly to the site, and some of them use the site for nothing more than trolling for the next sucker for their worthless schemes. It is always useful to 'follow the money.' An obvious label might help make it easier to suss out the poster's intent.
JO
rossored
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,103
- Likes
- 56
dsn said:
I would like to make it quite clear that Socrates has never had, and most likely never will have any involvement with T2W other than posting on the boards.
The only people involved with the day-to-day running of the site (from an admin perspective) are myself, Eamonn (EK1), Paul (Sharky) and John (Rhody Trader). We then have an excellent team of moderators in the form of JumpOff, Barjon, and Frugi.
We have no vendors who have a commercial interest in the site. All our advertisers (which is my area, incidentally) pay to advertise here, in the form of banner ads or direct marketing emails. Anyone who does not pay or agree something with us does not advertise (ok, sometimes some slip through the net - that's where you, the members, come in and tell us about it).
Please let this be an end to this question.
As JumpOff has said, we are in discussion about how to make it clearer who is a vendor and who is not. Once we've agreed on some way to do this, we will of course let the membership know.
counter_violent
Legendary member
- Messages
- 12,669
- Likes
- 3,787
rossored said:
Good, then we will all know Who is Who in the Zoo.
C V
Still,
The question is 'Why is Socrates showed favoritism ?'
On obvious trouble maker, why has he never being banned ?
Sure, its good to have a pantomime bad guy around to BOO, and have a good laugh at his strained attempts at intellectual superiority, but banning people who give Socy as good as they get is surely not the best way forward ???
Porks
The question is 'Why is Socrates showed favoritism ?'
On obvious trouble maker, why has he never being banned ?
Sure, its good to have a pantomime bad guy around to BOO, and have a good laugh at his strained attempts at intellectual superiority, but banning people who give Socy as good as they get is surely not the best way forward ???
Porks
SOCRATES
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,966
- Likes
- 136
Let me make it clear that I am not shown favouritism.Porks said:
My posts get deleted on occasion the same as everyone elses.
I am not a troublemaker, but I do respond vigorously to people who choose to attack me.
Was it not you yourself who posted it was about time I was given a good kicking ?
rossored
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,103
- Likes
- 56
Porks said:
Socrates is not showed any favourtism. I appreciate that it may look that way sometimes because he is sometimes "politely rude" rather than directly rude as others are, and because of this some of his posts are probably overlooked. However I would like to point out that whenever someone really takes offence to a post and reports it, we ALWAYS look at the post in question (in fact several of us probably do, as the notifications go to all the admin/mod team by default) - so feel free to click that button whenever something riles you. The "Cleaning up T2W" thread has raised some interesting points which we will probably discuss in the near future.
For now, I'm signing off the site for the rest of the night so don't expect any more replies. I will check this and other threads for comments tomorrow. However if anyone has a question or would like to raise a particular point, please feel free to drop me a PM.
EDIT: Incidentally, I am not aware of anyone who has been banned for specifically "having a go" at Socrates. All the mods are aware whenever someone gets banned, and if there's disagreement about it, it's discussed and cases are presented etc.
dc2000
Veteren member
- Messages
- 4,766
- Likes
- 129
A good idea but kind of going off on a tangent Im sure we will all agree Soc has never openly posted anything commercial on these boards and to be honest I dont really care if he does
The main beef here is how Soc can be afforded the privilege of calling those members who do not agree or follow his thinking, idiots or creatures etc etc. I dont know any of the mods but I would be willing to guess that they would be pretty offended if they were called fools or idiots.
Having read through the original thread it would seem that it was Soc who was being disruptive every other post is Favourite saying no 5 /10 12 etc now if any other member was to post in this manner they would be warned or banned. Has Soc been warned for this sort of behaviour
