Vendor Performance Thread

[dbphoenix]

I post at least 3 trades each week where I usually - beforehand - post where I will go long or where I would go short. Then, at the time of the actual trade, I make the announcement on the appropriate thread, with a stop attached to it so anybody can tell when I'll be wrong or not. At then end of the day I explain on a chart, with full analysis why I went wrong or short at that particular price level. If I'm not in a trade, I even post the analysis during the day or make references to it while the pattern is forming (for example: "I will go long if price breaks out of the triangle at 12350...").

I assume you're explaining beforehand in detail why you're going long or short at a particular point.

 

[dbphoenix]

I thought N_T's central point was not why, but why should any one buy your system? Prove it works and is profitable? This isn't about other traders here and their skills, but about system sellers and their claims of X, Y and Z, regardless of how.

Doesn't matter. If the system seller is (a) not a trader and (b) can't explain his trades beforehand, that pretty much tells you all you need to know.

 

[firewalker99]

You're skipping over the central point: "explain in detail what he's trading and why and how".

The best traders I've worked with -- including Teresa Lo, Linda Raschke, and Bo Yoder -- always explained in detail exactly what it was they were looking for and why and what they planned to do with it if and when it appeared. None of this "can't give away my secrets" nonsense. Therefore, when a trade came up that they should have taken, those paying attention could rightfully ask why the trade hadn't been taken. Or if one was taken that on the face of it should not have been taken, they could ask why. This is how one learns principles. This is a primary method of learning how to trade, whether someone else's system or a system which one has created as a result of what he has learned.

Anyone who tries to get away with "went long at" or "had a great day today" can't be expected to be taken seriously.

I completely agree. That's why I usually post the levels of interest to me before the day opens, so that people who are looking know where I'd be looking for a trade. And when the opportunity arises, I'll point out what kind of action I'd like to see before taking the trade. A few people in this site have done the same, but I can't think of a whole lot.

 

[zupcon]

?If somebody has 10 free systems to post ,how can they mix up systems and jumble them up in one thread?

What do I do to the 10 new FOREX systems I was planning to post on this forum?.All of them are free AND WORTH DISCUSSING

oilfxpro

It would seam to me that it would be quite difficult to get any sort of reasonable discussion going with a vendor when they spread themselves so thin.

Its probably much worse than it sounds, because it wont just be an additional 10 threads here on one forum that need to be maintained, the same materials will be posted verbatim across another 10 forums.

This additional exposure possibly makes sense from a vendors perspective, but you cant really argue that the objective is to stimulate quality debate.

It could be argued, that if you wished to stimulate discussion, the time spent maintaining 100's of threads across a dozen forums could perhaps be better spent on maintaining a single coherent thread in one location.

 

[dbphoenix]

It could be argued, that if you wished to stimulate discussion, the time spent maintaining 100's of threads across a dozen forums could perhaps be better spent on maintaining a single coherent thread in one location.

Actually, now that the blog system is finally in place, this is not difficult at all. Create a separate category for each system, and those who want to post something regarding a particular category can do so, and whoever is maintaining the blog can keep all these discrete discussions going separately. Like a juggler.

This has the added advantage of keeping the vendor out of everybody's hair.

 

[firewalker99]

I assume you're explaining beforehand in detail why you're going long or short at a particular point.

Yes, I normally explain why and where. Although the 'where' is dependent on where price opens the next day, whether it's inside or outside the previous day's range.

Ofcourse, I'm not a visionary and I can't tell 'when' or 'if' the pattern will arise but yes, those who are following my trades should after some time be able to tell in advance what I'm doing.

I'll illustrate this by showing a post I made last Friday. The timestamp of the post was 1827 GMT+1. Anybody who'd like to question this trade, is free to do so. But I don't think there are a lot of ways I can cheat myself here: stop and target are posted in advance... and the entry has been timed on the chart.

Long 12227 on break of descending triangle, stop is 12215
target is next resistance: 12275

 

[new_trader]

Doesn't matter. If the system seller is (a) not a trader and (b) can't explain his trades beforehand, that pretty much tells you all you need to know.

You are probably answering my post as I type, but I will try again. I have not made it unclear that I am not interested in sharing my 'edge' or 'methodology', nor am I interested in giving lessons. I value my intellectual property and jealously guard it. But that doesn't prevent me from giving guidance wherever I feel I can or when I feel it is appropriate. I have thought about a live chat room where I would make live calls without explanation. I was in one not long ago but I realise that there is additional pressure to perform which can impair ability. As you know, sometimes you might be waiting hours for the right trade, and some days you might not trade at all. This can't happen in a live chat room. People expect some type of performance just like they would at a concert. You can't expect the artist to do nothing and say "It just didn't seem right today".

 

[oilfxpro]

It could be argued, that if you wished to stimulate discussion, the time spent maintaining 100's of threads across a dozen forums could perhaps be better spent on maintaining a single coherent thread in one location.

Zupcon

How can anyone follow a single thread with several journals ,15 systems on forex,3 systems on oil and several systems on gold.After going through a portion of the thread with mish mash I would give up

Each thread should be squeaky clean and easy to follow each system ,without jumping from system to systems in one thread

OILFXPRO

 

[Mathemagician]

I have not made it unclear that I am not interested...

The rare and beautiful triple negative! Congratulations! In all seriousness, an edit/rephrase in the interest of clarity might be in order.

jj

 

[timsk]

Actually, now that the blog system is finally in place, this is not difficult at all.

Can't open yours dbp - does one need special access privileges? (All other blogs open up fine.)
Tim.

 

[oilfxpro]

Actually, now that the blog system is finally in place, this is not difficult at all. Create a separate category for each system, and those who want to post something regarding a particular category can do so, and whoever is maintaining the blog can keep all these discrete discussions going separately. Like a juggler.

This has the added advantage of keeping the vendor out of everybody's hair.

D

Are u saying "introduce the new free systems in the Blog instead of Forex trading systems?

OILFXPRO

 

[dbphoenix]

You are probably answering my post as I type, but I will try again. I have not made it unclear that I am not interested in sharing my 'edge' or 'methodology', nor am I interested in giving lessons. I value my intellectual property and jealously guard it. But that doesn't prevent me from giving guidance wherever I feel I can or when I feel it is appropriate. I have thought about a live chat room where I would make live calls without explanation.

If you're not trading under the conditions that I listed, then you're just feeding your ego. Who cares about your "live calls" if there's no explanation?

 

[firewalker99]

As you know, sometimes you might be waiting hours for the right trade, and some days you might not trade at all. This can't happen in a live chat room. People expect some type of performance just like they would at a concert. You can't expect the artist to do nothing and say "It just didn't seem right today".

Sure it can happen. Skype chatrooms for example have logs and when other members log back in they can go through what's been said. They can check each post by it's timestamp. Even after the event they can still check the timing of your post & validate your reasons for taking a trade. I've been in one some time ago, and you're right some members make 10 trades a day, others 1/day, or 1/week. Shouldn't be a problem when everything's been logged on the server.

 

[new_trader]

If you're not trading under the conditions that I listed, then you're just feeding your ego. Who cares about your "live calls" if there's no explanation?

No, it's not about ego. Strange you would say that. I thought it was about credibility...that is my issue! Hence this thread.

 

[dbphoenix]

No, it's not about ego. Strange you would say that. I thought it was about credibility...that is my issue! Hence this thread.

That's not how credibility is earned. Assuming that you are in fact making the trades, you might just be lucky, with one of those "edges" that evaporates in a few weeks.

If your intent in opening this thread was to prod vendors into making calls, that would be a monumental waste of time. It would also teach newbies exactly the wrong lessons when it comes to trading.

 

[Crap Buddist]

If you're not trading under the conditions that I listed, then you're just feeding your ego. Who cares about your "live calls" if there's no explanation?

hi all....

Hmm, I would if i was starting out again. Often I thought how or where a seasoned pro might be enetering and exiting the market, i didn't need to know the why so much as I assume auction market, value, cycles , with (in this game) bluff, running stops and fake outs etc..

Never did have access to any of that but to me a picture, is worth the preverbial.

I think all some people need to see is how others play a piece, the why might not/ and perhaps should not be spoon fed to a rookie ? leave them something to rise to the challenge of it all.

For myself for instance, I'm mainly buy low, sell high mindset, as opposed to buy high, sell higher. So a catalogue of successful trades taken showing entries and exits may give non verbal (but communicate support\) to a rookie who is attempting to find his/her own way. But work it out for themselves. And one can see on the chart of the trades whether the trading approached used by the trader did or does yield positive results or not.

Yes it does require trust, but I do not think many people post charts with historical trades highlited that are bogus. To me its just like watching an action replay and thinking , nice one ! Head Drilling may result but that should be handled in the best interests of the driller, controlled I think.

Personally I love to see how traders have traded a move. But training new blood is a massive responsibility I feel. And well done to anyone who undertakes that task with the students long term best interest at heart.

 

[dbphoenix]

For the sake of clarity, when I say "why" I'm not talking about Bernanke has a boil or the moon is in the seventh house. I'm talking about the setup. Dunnigan, for example. Reading that you'd have no doubts whatsoever about where to enter and why. The only question would be how. Ditto Darvas.

 

[new_trader]

That's not how credibility is earned. Assuming that you are in fact making the trades, you might just be lucky, with one of those "edges" that evaporates in a few weeks.

If your intent in opening this thread was to prod vendors into making calls, that would be a monumental waste of time. It would also teach newbies exactly the wrong lessons when it comes to trading.

db,

Do you think any person of at least average intelligence would accuse you of just being lucky if you made a few live trade calls that made a profit? I don't stand to make any money out of what I post here apart from if I actually practice what I preach.

Now compare this with a vendor who has been a member of this forum for half an hour and has opened a new thread for every minute of that half hour claiming that this strategy and that strategy is profitable.

 

[zupcon]

At one time T2W implemented some sort of scheme in which various charities would benefit from trades called by members, and if I recall correctly, the site, and one of the advertisers topped up the account each month to cover trading losses.

I would suggest that the same offer be extended to vendors, T2W fund a small account, the vendors trade the account with an agreement that any profits are paid to a charity of their choice, and that they cover losses each month to top up the account to its initial starting balance.

If the vendor does well, everyone benefits, if the vendor has a bad month, they pay a few bucks to top up the account, probably much less than the cost of a months advertising.

Clearly a few will abuse the facility, but surely its a price worth paying to clean up the mess we currently have.

 

[Mathemagician]

db,

Do you think any person of at least average intelligence would accuse you of just being lucky if you made a few live trade calls that made a profit?

Unfortunately, due to the statistics involved a person of above average intelligence would put about as much stock in this as they'd put in a coin that flipped 3 heads out of 4.

jj