VC Financials / WorldSpreads.

[mattjenkins]

yes ross, agreed, am splitting between 4 brokers now.
Fair enough gle101, point taken.

 

[jungerns]

I tend to think that anything more than about £10 pp on FX, oil or indices is potentially dangerous with one SB account. Better to spread larger positions between providers, even if it means losing a few pips or points.

If I can ask you Ross why you think more than £10 is potentially dangerous via SB. I agree with you, but for different reasons.

£10 whilst my upper limit I would imagine is fairly low for many ??

 

[Hoggums]

If anybody could give me advice on my position, I would be grateful.

I opened an account a few years ago after receiving a promotional email from Victor Chandler Bookmakers advertising their new financial product.
They offered me some sort of money back guarantee to try spread betting on financials and away I went.

My account was opened with vc, correspondance regarding withdrawals etc came from vc, my account managers email address ends with vc.com, and so on.

My contention is this, I had approx 5 or 6 positions open with VC/ worldspreads on Friday close of play, 4 of which are small and inconsequential,
but 2 of them are not.
1 was a £90 per pip sell of the Ftse, and the 2nd, a £25 sell of the usd-jpy.

I was informed monday night (after close of business at 6.25pm) which I didnt read until Tuesday morning, by email that the positions were closed as of close of play Friday night, and that bascially
VC dont want to walk away from the situation but basically theres nothing they can do as their hands are tied by the regulators e.t.c

Since Friday the ftse has dropped approx 140 pts, and the usd-jpy approx 80 pts,
VC/worldspreads closed me off for a £20k loss against my will when I had sufficent margin to cover the position and now the position is basically almost level.

I find it very hard to accept that Vc can just basically say 'tough', not our fault, when they were so active in worldspreads, and indeed my account manager told me his office was within the worldspreads building itself.

I would be interested in what the legal position would be here, whether it would be worth pursuing . I have requested to VC that they put matters right but am falling on deaf ears.

The market could have risen 140 points and if Vc hadn't closed your position you'd be on here complaining that you couldn't get through to them to close the position.

If the market had risen after they closed your positions you wouldn't be complaining would you? You'd be thanking your lucky stars.

Yes it was a spot of bad luck - but that's all it was.

you don't stand a chance of any compensation. WS did the right thing, you're only ever as rich as your current account balance, realised + unrealised.

 

[Ross Spur]

If I can ask you Ross why you think more than £10 is potentially dangerous via SB. I agree with you, but for different reasons.

£10 whilst my upper limit I would imagine is fairly low for many ??

Basically, the higher the stake the more chance you have of getting a bad price or no price, plus in a worst-case scenario your potential loss on something like US30, EU, or oil is still pretty big. Average SB stakes are around £2pp, I believe.

 

[gle101]

yes ross, agreed, am splitting between 4 brokers now.
Fair enough gle101, point taken.

Thanks.

 

[shortsell]

Basically, the higher the stake the more chance you have of getting a bad price or no price, plus in a worst-case scenario your potential loss on something like US30, EU, or oil is still pretty big. Average SB stakes are around £2pp, I believe.

Considering £2 is the minimum size with IG i doubt it is the average don't you?

There are guys out there that do £5k a point of dow through SB. That is a fact.

 

[Mata Nui]

If you look at the CS thread i believe Simon has said the average across all markets is £5 per point but they do have some big players. Most SB have a minimum of £1 per point. A couple are more but there are very few that will let you do 10p per point long term.

 

[Ross Spur]

Considering £2 is the minimum size with IG i doubt it is the average don't you?

There are guys out there that do £5k a point of dow through SB. That is a fact.

I think Simon from CS has said that £2-3pp was average on things like indices. £5k a point on YM through SB? Hmm...

 

[gle101]

£5k a point on YM through SB? Hmm...

Yes that guy must have really deep pockets.

 

[stevespray]

I think Simon from CS has said that £2-3pp was average on things like indices. £5k a point on YM through SB? Hmm...

Has anyone ever looked at the depth at touch-price on YM's? You're lucky if there's 6 to 10 contracts at that price. Bearing in mind that £5k sterling would be circa 1,600 YM contracts there's no way anyone could trade that volume unless the order was 'worked'. There's no doubt that some of the larger SB firms have dedicated dealers who handle 'large clients' and do exactly this kind of thing but it would be foolish to think that there are people out there who just buy and sell that kind of volume on 'one click'.

Steve.

 

[shortsell]

Has anyone ever looked at the depth at touch-price on YM's? You're lucky if there's 6 to 10 contracts at that price. Bearing in mind that £5k sterling would be circa 1,600 YM contracts there's no way anyone could trade that volume unless the order was 'worked'. There's no doubt that some of the larger SB firms have dedicated dealers who handle 'large clients' and do exactly this kind of thing but it would be foolish to think that there are people out there who just buy and sell that kind of volume on 'one click'.

Steve.

which of course i didn't say.

 

[Ross Spur]

Has anyone ever looked at the depth at touch-price on YM's? You're lucky if there's 6 to 10 contracts at that price. Bearing in mind that £5k sterling would be circa 1,600 YM contracts there's no way anyone could trade that volume unless the order was 'worked'. There's no doubt that some of the larger SB firms have dedicated dealers who handle 'large clients' and do exactly this kind of thing but it would be foolish to think that there are people out there who just buy and sell that kind of volume on 'one click'.

Steve.

Yes, it would probably take ages to work that through. Anyone here fancy depositing about five million quid in a SB account and giving it a go?

 

[shortsell]

You sound suspicious Ross. Do you doubt that there are people trading that sort of size, and with cash deposits of that nature (and larger) with SB companies?

 

[Ross Spur]

You sound suspicious Ross. Do you doubt that there are people trading that sort of size, and with cash deposits of that nature (and larger) with SB companies?

I can believe that there are people building up positions of such size, but it's hardly what spreadbetting is all about for the majority. The idea that someone could log into their account and press Buy or Sell US30 at £5k pp seems a bit implausible.

 

[shortsell]

i don't think i ever said that.

i'm just trying to give some perspective on the paranoia of venturing over £10 per point with an SB company.

 

[dealer911]

I can believe that there are people building up positions of such size, but it's hardly what spreadbetting is all about for the majority. The idea that someone could log into their account and press Buy or Sell US30 at £5k pp seems a bit implausible.

Your right - it would not happen.. you would be on dealer referral due to the size of the order.. they (SB co's) can set your size tolerance to what they are comfortable with accepting on-line..if you consistently lose they'll probably crack you through but if you are profitable they will have you on referral so they can hedge you - basically as long as you promise not to make any money the'll allow you to trade more size than is available on the touch.

 

[shortsell]

anyone dealing that sort of size is likely smart enough to know that it's better to work with your counterparty than against them.

 

[jungerns]

anyone dealing that sort of size is likely smart enough to know that it's better to work with your counterparty than against them.

Can you explain what you really mean to a mere mortal like myself.....??

 

[stevespray]

anyone dealing that sort of size is likely smart enough to know that it's better to work with your counterparty than against them.

Agreed 100%. And the counterparty will probably see it that way as well as they'll be able to make their money by simply using their efficiency to make up your position.

 

[shortsell]

@ Jungerns:

people get put on dealer referral when they are conducting their business in a way that is not mutually beneficial.

people want to have their cake and eat it - narrow spreads, immediate execution regardless of market conditions, an all singing all dancing platform. the funny thing is there are SB firms who actually deliver on these requirements and people still moan!

the bottom line is that i want the broker i'm using - SB or otherwise - to make money from me and their other clients. lots of money. this will mean that;

a.) they will still be there tomorrow
b.) they will want to speak to/deal with me, and will value my business.

therefore, if i were trading £5k a point of dow (i'm not) i would call up and ask to speak to a senior dealer, explain that i'm looking to knock about in good size, and ask how best to go about it so that we could both make some money.

i wouldn't log on to an internet platform, whack 5 grand in the size box and click 'buy' whilst chuckling to myself at the 5 lots on the offer in the underlying.