Vacancy In Sudan.

[grantx]

Atilla,

“May the almighty enlighten us all and show us the way of the righteous so that we may all find our path to happiness.”

“us” don’t need enlightenment.

Markus,

“Religion - one of the worst culprits behind severely deranged human behaviour around,”.

No it isn’t, the problems are with the practitioners.

Despite what you may regard as Christian loonies in the US, they can’t be compared to the excesses of some muslim countries.

Grant.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla,

“May the almighty enlighten us all and show us the way of the righteous so that we may all find our path to happiness.”

“us” don’t need enlightenment.

Markus,

“Religion - one of the worst culprits behind severely deranged human behaviour around,”.

No it isn’t, the problems are with the practitioners.

Despite what you may regard as Christian loonies in the US, they can’t be compared to the excesses of some muslim countries.

Grant.

Ok Grant you decide. In that case may I have your of enlightment so I can understand where you are coming from a little better perhaps.

I think the white church going supremicist in the plains of US are very much like Hitler. In fact they would even kill their own kind. What was Oklohoma bombing about? Klu Klax Klan still have a following who believe the black man was created to serve white man. They make South African aparthide look like a Sunday picnic.

If you think Christian US attack on Iraq to be proportional and fair I'd like to know what it's based on? If you don't think it's excessive what are you comparing it with so I may be enlightened?

If you believe Bush and Blair based their decisions on anything other than their conviction on their faith I like to know what they are? (WMD or Democracy? I do hope you don't believe all that nonsense?) In fact Bush went as far as to say on TV footage to think when he won the elections and when war reared his head that he was somehow Gods chosen instrument and this was his purpose in life?

I do concur with your second point that it is man that pollutes religion and takes it off it's true course and harmony.

I also think BSD, your diagram is wonderful. All aspiring to find the right path home. It's a little like walking through a field looking at all the different coloured flowers. Nature rich and beautiful in it's diversity. If one only ever saw red roses we wouldn't appreciate it as much and eventualy become blind to it's beauty.

 

[grantx]

Atilla,

I prepared a reply then thought, if I post this, I could end up in court.

That's the kind of fkuced country we live in.

Grant.

 

[yacarob1]

I heard that Mrs Gibbons is fronting a new product line being rushed out by Toys R Us for Christmas.

 

[the blades]

If you think Christian US attack on Iraq to be proportional and fair I'd like to know what it's based on? If you don't think it's excessive what are you comparing it with so I may be enlightened?

If you believe Bush and Blair based their decisions on anything other than their conviction on their faith I like to know what they are? (WMD or Democracy? I do hope you don't believe all that nonsense?) In fact Bush went as far as to say on TV footage to think when he won the elections and when war reared his head that he was somehow Gods chosen instrument and this was his purpose in life?

However misguided the war, you aren't seriously suggesting it was a result of their Christian faith leading them to wage a war on Islam?

Surely repeated attacks on US interests and a widespread belief that Saddam had wider aims (yes, I know we're all very wise after the fact) brought it about.

I'm firmly in the religion does nothing good camp, but I don't believe it was a religous war for a minute. And if so, why get involved in Kosovo in support of the muslims?

Apologies if I've missed your point.

UTB

PS - can anyone explain if the motives are all oil based, how all this conflict actualy helps oil hungry nations? All I see is a trebling of oil price. If it's all about control, then what control has been gained?

 

[BSD]

Grant, you have a good point there re religions vs certain of its practitioners.

But as far as the fundamentalist fanatics of any religion go I see no differences amongst the faiths, fanaticism always leads to a total disregard of what religion was originally about, ie love and forgiveness and the ubiquituous Golden Rule nicely described in the picture earlier, and instead incites to hypocrisy, hate mongering and intolerance towards those who do not share your narrow minded beliefs and prefer thinking for themselves.

Attila, I hear you there re the KKK, they are one deranged lot.

I don't see Iraq as a religious war, however much the NeoCons and Bin LAden would like to conjure up some such ludicrous threat, but the driving forces in both camps and their main supporters, ie NeoCon One and Al Qaeda, happen to be religious loonies, and if you want to measure evil by outcome, well, then it's Bush who wins with the hundreds of thousands dead or mutilated as a result of an entirely unwarranted war that has achieved nothing but make the world a much more dangerous place.

UTB, the reason why oil prices are exploding even though Iraq was was motivated by a desire to secure oil access is down to the singular incompetence of Bush and his regime: not a single objective that he and his NeoCon cabal set out to obtain has even remotely been achieved.

As for the reasons given for war, well, let's be honest, nobody I'm aware of believed even for a single second that Saddam had anything to do with 9-11, let alone that he posed the huge and imminent threat to the USA that Bush was constantly scaremongering on about.

How ridiculous an argument is that after all, why on earth should Saddam have attempted an attack on what was still a Superpower before Bush went on with great success to eradicate that status in the sand deserts of Iraq, he had much too great a life to throw that to the dogs as he knew what everybody else knew, he would not have survived that.

The "case" made for war would have been downright funny if it hadn't been so tragic:

"Sydney Morning Herald

A lack of intelligence

May 31 2003

Australia's spies knew the United States was lying about Iraq's WMD programme. So why didn't the Government choose to believe them? Andrew Wilkie writes.


'Intelligence" was how the Americans described the material accumulating on Iraq from their super-sophisticated spy systems. But to analysts at the Office of National Assessments in Canberra, a decent chunk of the growing pile looked like rubbish. In their offices on the top floor of the drab ASIO building, ONA experts found much of the US material worthy only of the delete button or the classified waste chute to the truck-sized shredder in the basement.

Australian spooks aren't much like the spies in the James Bond movies. Not many drink vodka martinis. But most are smart - certainly smart enough to understand how US intelligence on Iraq was badly skewed by political pressure, worst-case analysis and a stream of garbage-grade intelligence concocted by Iraqis desperate for US intervention in Iraq.

It wasn't just the Australians who were mystified by the accumulating US trash. The French, Germans and Russians had long before refused to be persuaded by Washington's line. British intelligence agencies were still inclined to take a more conservative position. And the chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix, even went so far as to say during a late April interview that "much of the intelligence on which the capitals built their case seemed to have been shaky"....

Cont.

I suppose the clearest statement of fact comes from those who knew the entirely obvious:

"Iraq No Threat

Both Colin Powell, US Secretary of State, and Condoleezza Rice, President Bush's closest adviser, made clear before September 11 2001 that Saddam Hussein was no threat - to America, Europe or the Middle East.
In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

This is the very opposite of what Bush and Blair said in public.

Powell even boasted that it was the US policy of "containment" that had effectively disarmed the Iraqi dictator - again the very opposite of what Blair said time and again. On May 15 2001, Powell went further and said that Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years". America, he said, had been successful in keeping him "in a box".

Two months later, Condoleezza Rice also described a weak, divided and militarily defenceless Iraq. "Saddam does not control the northern part of the country," she said. "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.""
YouTube - Powell and Rice assure everyone Iraq is NO THREAT pre-9/11

 

[Atilla]

However misguided the war, you aren't seriously suggesting it was a result of their Christian faith leading them to wage a war on Islam?

I was referring to more derranged men calling on their beliefs to justify their actions. I can see excesses in the Christian world that trump those of muslims or Jews. It's simply that the break between religion and state was achieved in the middle ages in the West and this struggle is still ensuing in the ME imo. fwiw, I see Bush, Blair and Osama Bin Laden in same light. War mongers and killers. It's just that there is a much bigger PR machine behind Bush and Blair...Looking at all the conspiracy theories I'm not even certain Bin Laden wasn't conducted by the CIA or some other intelligence operatives with bigger power plays. Still haven't gotten over the twin towers, the missing aeroplane in the pentagon or justification for war on Iraq?

Surely repeated attacks on US interests and a widespread belief that Saddam had wider aims (yes, I know we're all very wise after the fact) brought it about. Saddam had wider aims? No evidence none what so ever imo. More of a white house transcript. I think BSD has answered these points.

I'm firmly in the religion does nothing good camp, but I don't believe it was a religous war for a minute. And if so, why get involved in Kosovo in support of the muslims?
I agree with the it wasn't a religeous war but reason why both Bush and Blair got on so well (most analysts scratching their heads at this one) is precisely because they are both very much religious and saw eye to eye. Boy blue eye wonders thought they were Gods gift to bring love, peace and democracy to the world at the point of a gun and make a name for them selves. It is IMHO - a PR managed thing that religion was kept out of their speeches - Bush let a few slip by.

Kosovo war was not to protect muslims but more to protect Nato and limit the explosion of a Balkan war dragging in Macedonia, Greece and Turkey. Greece was placing Russian weapons system on Crete and Cyprus which would then be used to listen to the whole of Mediterranean and ME. Turkey was threatenning to attack Greece. Two Nato & European countries at war would not look good as well as allow the Russians in disrupting US influence. Purely proxy wars between US and Russia. If saving lives was at stake would they have allowed the genocide to continue for years with the daily deaths of 200,000 Bosnian shown in full colour? I don't think so...

Apologies if I've missed your point.
My apologies too if I have mis communicated. I simply feel we should not mention religion in politics or wars as it never is about religion but more about power wealth and influence. Vanity of man imo.

UTB

PS - can anyone explain if the motives are all oil based, how all this conflict actualy helps oil hungry nations? All I see is a trebling of oil price. If it's all about control, then what control has been gained?

BSD has answered this too and I concur with his views also...

 

[zambuck]

Yes...spot on Atilla...

There are News....

There are News for people...

There are News that are printed for masses.....

And then there are Real News which people never see....!

Manipulation of masses.......

 

[klw]

Argos are selling teddy bears cheaply for Christmas as they don't want to make a prophet out of them.

 

[yacarob1]

Upon her return to Britain Gillian Gibbons said:

"It was terrible, I was regularly raped and tortured, I had to eat rats and all my possessions were stolen.

And thats why I left Liverpool."

 

[dick_dastardly]

Upon her return to Britain Gillian Gibbons said:

"It was terrible, I was regularly raped and tortured, I had to eat rats and all my possessions were stolen.

And thats why I left Liverpool."

yacarob1

Are you Boris Johnson ?

dd

 

[yacarob1]

yacarob1

Are you Boris Johnson ?

dd

Gadzooks, my cover has been blown.