Updata's TA courses

[GruntnoWay]

Just as a reminder, Jeremy du Plessis published an article in Market Technician in October 2002 (issue No 45.) with the title, “Does the continued use of the wrong method make it right?” which goes along way to answer some of the questions that have been raised on this thread.

HTH

Cheers

Mayfly

Thanks Mayfly. Do they have a web site where I can get this? Is it by subscription?

 

[TBS]

GW
there really isn't (as far as I can see) all that much extra to know on 1 box reversal. The main thing would seem to be that you are employing greater sensitivity with what that implies in response to noise

The only major difference is that you stack the 'o' and 'x' when there is only a 1 box reversal, any more than that and it is as normal.

 

[oatman]

Apparently the 1point method is DeVilliers. There's a bit about a book here.
http://www.guppytraders.com/b191.htm

 

[TBS]

A quick worked example for you:

PnF Example

 

[volatileN]

There are two people from my yahoo group going to Updata's pt and fig course on friday so I have decided to hold off until I get some unbiased opinions from them. I will be sure to let you know next week.

With respect, and without wishing to imply that such credentials offer any great degree of authority, I am a quantitative Hedge Fund manager with a masters in finance from Business School. On the side I also operate a small software development company. I have done the course and can assure you it is an utter waste of money.

I am concerned as to why my opinion would not qualify as Unbiased?

 

[GruntnoWay]

With respect, and without wishing to imply that such credentials offer any great degree of authority, I am a quantitative Hedge Fund manager with a masters in finance from Business School. On the side I also operate a small software development company. I have done the course and can assure you it is an utter waste of money.

I am concerned as to why my opinion would not qualify as Unbiased?

Thanks. I appreciate your forthright response but

1. I don't know who you are. That's reasonable isn't it. I know and have met the people in my yahoo group and therefore trust their judgement.

2. "Utter waste of money" - on what grounds? Did you not understand it, or did you know it all already. Would it be a waste of money to everyone who attended?

 

[volatileN]

Thanks. I appreciate your forthright response but

1. I don't know who you are. That's reasonable isn't it. I know and have met the people in my yahoo group and therefore trust their judgement.

2. "Utter waste of money" - on what grounds? Did you not understand it, or did you know it all already. Would it be a waste of money to everyone who attended?

GruntoWay,

Obviously the anonymity of such a forum justifies your caution and I respect that.

The question was neither one of understanding nor of knowledge. I did understand it and I had read of numerous similar approaches.

Rather my objection was to the ambiguity and scope for subjectivity. There was a lot of talk about this pattern and that pattern (which was fine) but there were no real parameters for what qualified under pattern X or Y.

We were told that doing X was optimal, and indeed it was on the charts they showed us but practical implementation is far more subjective.

All of the people who teach the Updata courses (and J du P is no exception) exude confidence in their methods but none have made any money from them.

In answer to the question "Would it be a waste of money to everyone who attended?" My answer would I fear be as ambiguous as some of their methodologies. No it would not be a waste insofar as it delivers a degree of confidence and seems to create camaraderie between independent traders. It is a waste, and potentially dangerous when improperly contextualised, in that the methods you will learn are nothing that you could not get from any text book yet you are made to feel exuberant about the potential for these.

My 2 cents...

 

[GruntnoWay]

All of the people who teach the Updata courses (and J du P is no exception) exude confidence in their methods but none have made any money from them.

Is that so? How on earth would you know?

Does that view apply to all teachers? I guess it does.

Thanks again anyway. I will report back next week.

 

[oatman]

Just had a look at the course. £410? I don't think you'll hear much about 1box P&F, it looks very general.
Good luck

 

[one/two]

I have had the experience of one of these courses, however it was a long time ago. volatileN made some good comments, I can remember the air of confidence within class which also continued for several days and weeks.
at the time I was very new to the game extremely inexperienced and very wet behind the ears ,hence I walk away very happy with the day.
I can only say with experience that it was a bag of b*!!*"?s and far from worth the money??

 

[volatileN]

Is that so? How on earth would you know?

Does that view apply to all teachers? I guess it does.

Thanks again anyway. I will report back next week.

1) He has to file his annual returns with companies house. He is a shareholder in Updata having merged Indexia with it. Updata are consistently loss making (last year to the tune of £800k on sales of over £1m). I have databases of all UK Ltd companies registered accounts. If he was a successful trader he would not work full time for such a company.

2) No, I teach on the side and both of my parents were teachers.

3) You are welcome.

N.B. I did not intend to generate any animosity, rather to save you money, accordingly I am disappointed at your tone.

Best,


VN

 

[Nildes]

I think to be fair, you can make a lot of money for others without making much for yourself if you're employed on a trading floor and whilst they take all the profits and losses, you do gain a lot of experience.
So the argument "If they're so clever why aren't they rich" is a bit over simplistic to apply to the Updata team.

They clearly have a lot of "live" experience and clearly know their way around the whole Technical Analysis scene.
Unlike me and possibly most here, most of the clients for their TA package don't want to know how it works, they simply want to know how to make it work for themselves to make money.
So if they're told: "do this, look for these patterns and then buy/sell" they're happy.
They're (Updata) selling a working system and they don't want bodgers tinkering with it and then saying it doesn't work.
As Bob Peyton so famously said to a manager he was firing "I'm the guy who made millions out of building up Chicago Pizza Pie, who the hell are you to come along and tinker with it"?

Mavericks like myself who want to know more about how their P&F objectives work or Gruntnoway who wants to do a slightly different P&F combination are not really their target market.

 

[oatman]

They are software writers, not traders.
It's easy to talk about trading, let them put their a*ses on the line and see how things are in the real world.

 

[GruntnoWay]

Everyone seems to be an expert on other people and what they do! . As I said I will wait until Monday to get some unbiased advice and information on these courses. How can they write technical analysis software without any experience?

 

[Nildes]

I just downloaded the new Updata pdf help file but most of the point and figure help section seems to concentrate on entry and exit signals.

I had a play with one box reversals too against some of the shares I trade but couldn't see any clearer signals that I might have used.

 

[volatileN]

Everyone seems to be an expert on other people and what they do! . As I said I will wait until Monday to get some unbiased advice and information on these courses. How can they write technical analysis software without any experience?

Their P&L says they can't!

 

[GruntnoWay]

touche. :cheesy:

But you said their P&L says they sold £1m of software !! That's not bad, in fact pretty successful in my books. Perhaps they spend too much on R&D etc. Anyway, we are off the subject now.

 

[volatileN]

touche. :cheesy:

But you said their P&L says they sold £1m of software !! That's not bad, in fact pretty successful in my books. Perhaps they spend too much on R&D etc. Anyway, we are off the subject now.

They don't just sell software. Anyway, I am sure that a man of your caliber will benefit greatly from the experience. I have changed my mind. I think you ought to go.

 

[chump]

Grunt,
"As I said I will wait until Monday to get some unbiased advice and information on these courses".

Personally I would wait for at least a few more Mondays and find out whether next Mondays' opinion still hold true after application in the market.

I have no idea whether they will or not,but I would not put any weight on an untested opinion and next Monday that is all you will have.

Cheers

 

[Nildes]

That's the funny thing about advice...always more givers than takers
No shortage of choice and of course, everyone's right.