Updata V Sharescope?

GruntnoWay said:


Oooh sorry, is that not allowed? I am merely defending my purchase. As I said, I know its fashionable to knock them, but then I have never been a leader in fashion.
Click to expand...

Defending your purchase ?

So any criticism of your purchase or Updata is really a personal matter................rather like a slap in the face ?

BTW the critical comments that have been expressed in this thread are mostly the result of Updata not delivering so next time you feel the need to defend your purchase perhaps you'll contact Updata ...........................tell them these criticisms are affecting your self worth................

"well you see Mr Linton I feel so silly having spent all this money and now they're saying these horrid things"

"no problem grunt ........well give you a few more indicators"

"will that make me a better trader? "

"yes..................but first you have to sign up for our new 2 day seminar........only £668 plus vat "

Such a helpful firm eh ?
 
I presume SENIOR doesn't refer to your age. Seems you have a real bitterness inside you. Take a breath of fresh air and consider your future health.
 
Now now guys!

There's no doubt that Updata have a legacy of cynicism and dissapointment which they carry from quite a number of early users and its an issue for them to address and correct if they can.
:rolleyes:

That shouldn't detract from the current program which IMHO is very useable and has some excellent features like its P&F charts.
;)
 
Gruntnoway,
I have REPEATEDLY said UTA is a good program, I have criticised 2 points, their service - which I have personally experienced, and found abysmal, and biorythms which I considered bizarre and a surprising inclusion that I suggested would tend to put us cynics off. You may support biorythms, I explained why I think it's a wierd inclusion - I ought to be able to express my view on that without having any negative opinion on my part immediately ascribed to an ulterior motive, it's insulting to assume that level of dishonesty - I've not suggested you have any sort of ulterior motive, why should you assume I'm dishonest?

I have also stated a number of times that I produce Pfscan, and that is simply because I consider it would be underhand to post criticism of Updata, which I am every bit as entitled to do as you are to defend them, without making my potential interest clear.
Unlike Updata I do not publicly proclaim that I am the only program publisher doing it correctly, which I consider a **** cheek frankly. A lot of people consider British Telecomn a good company - they've cut my phone off by accident for 48 hrs (mid Jan) and I am currently waiting for them to reconnect my ADSL that they accidentally turned off Tuesday night - does my experience not entitle me to criticise them? So too with Updata - I could have been a darn sight more cutting in my comments I assure you!

Dave
 
Well I thought I out to try it since I had previously criticised its very presence.
I have to report that, despite a heavy cold bodering on 'flu for the last 10 days, Biorythms has me at the peak of Physical Health!

Not only that, its failed to notice the drowsiness effects engendered by the 'flu-busting remedies and reports me at the peak of intellectual cycle too.

Either its way off beam or I could have been a lot worse?

I remain deeply cynical about both its inclusion in a TA program and its application to the human condition
:D
 
To add to the discussion, I hope, (rather than having this ascribed to a hidden agenda) I'd like to go into the biorythm point more, perhaps then it'll become obvious why I posted what I did and it'll be viewed with less suspicion - I believe the point is important.
It is a central tenet, I would suggest, of TA that you trade what you see, rather than what you think is going to happen, or even worse 'ought' to happen. This pattern is usually followed by a 10% rise makes sense, this share ought to be priced 10% higher because bread is a staple is typical 'I lost all my money but I was right' rubbish.
Biorythms are going to identify good and bad days to trade - sorry, whether you are trading well or not is something you discover after the event, not something you predict EXCEPT I would agree that commonsense (dodgy ground warning) suggests it's usually not a good trading day if you just buried the wife and kids. (You may, on the other hand, trade at your best when you don't care what happens, as you are naturally too cautious).
To 'not trade' because Biorythms predict you won't do well is stupid, we are all different - I would agree that over time you could build up a sort of psychological profile of yourself that logged how you felt etc against how you trade, but the fact is that some of us trade better under stress, others need calm to deliver. To maintain a record of how you felt when placing trades might well be instructive, I'm not big on psychology in general but I'll accept it can work out for some people if they get into this sort of area. To be able to say 'I won't trade today, because I always trade badly on days like this' has some basis in reality - you have identified conditions that tend to suggest you don't trade well, and are reining in on those days. I would, personally, at least 'paper trade' on those days to check I wasn't actually doing darn well and missing out.
You know you are trading badly, you lose money. Staying out because you know you trade badly when your mood is such and such is defensable, although I would still say you ought to paper trade to see if the prediction was probably correct. (Probably, as real trading and paper trading don't always match). To trade because biorythms say you ought is a sure sign, in my view, that you are going to lose money as a TA trader.

None of the above should be taken as criticism of Updata - I am surprised that they included this in UTA, personally I suspect they thought it a gimmick to catch a few extra punters, but they are a commercial company trying to make a buck and if it helps sales then I don't blame them for doing it. The user is free to use or ignore the biorythms - again, this absolves Updata... I'd be critical of them if it were not optional! I am simply arguing a TA point here, Updata is incidental to it - I am arguing not against them, but against anyone who believes Biorythms have a place here for determining days to trade.

I advertise in one magazine, published in the USA. I sell primarily to the US market. I have suggested 'competitors' to people who email me - there are people on this board who I've said 'try Updata' to. Updata produce a good program, Jeremy Du Plessis has a labour of love going here, and I can identify with that readily enough. My annual income is quite nice, Pfscan almost covers my mouse mat bill. (Almost)
Dave
 
Dave JB,
I'll go along with all of that and add:
Would anyone not make a trade because the Biorythms said it would be a bad idea...for instance, would it help to run on through a stop-loss for fear of failure...of course not...mostly.

Surely the whole point of something like a stop-loss is to protect your investment capital from the results of a trade that didn't work out. I don't know about your P&F program but if I did better that 70% good calls with my trades, I'd be bloomin amazed.

I've got two double-bottoms at the moment that resolutely refuse to get up off their ars*s and that's by no means unusual :cry:

Anyway I concur entirely, there's no real place to stop. If Bioryhtms then why not star signs, alpha wave analysers, tarot readers and dream-catchers? :D
 
I like dream catchers.. crikey, you mean they're a fake? Dammit, I knew that mystic voice whispering 'buy Tech stocks' back in 2000 was some elaborate scam - last time I buy a pillow from marconi I can tell you!
We agree, but it's easy to sound like it's a p*** take and Updata, when all is said and done, is a good program. Some of use aren't happy with support etc in the past, but I'm pretty sure most of us wouldn't mind having Jeremy Du P on hand now and then. I've been trying (and obviously failing) to distinguish between Updata the design, good idea, and pretty good execution and Updata the marketing company who I personally don't have a lot of time for. I think it's tragic to see this pairing - US companies dominate the software market, and quite honestly I rate Australian efforts above UK and US - they're turning out innovative stuff endlessly. I wrote my effort, then someone told me about Bulls Eye Broker, and I thought 'If I'd seen this a year ago I probably wouldn't have started coding' - now I think I've done rather better, but I freely acknowledge they got there first. I like to think that my program kicked BeB up the bottom a little, it seems to have improved since then - archer analysis for those who want to check out an alternative to Pfscan and Updata. (I think it's www.archeranalysis.com - something similar at least). The guy running it is a nice bloke, tell him I said hello!
Stops - whatever your metohd for determining the exit, a 'golden rule' is to decide the exit before entry. Presumablya biorythm chart tells you to exit an apparently sound position sometimes, as it's a bad time for you to hold any trades?
70% - do me a favour! Old P&F studies from about 1960 are often quoted, conveniently minus date info, with that sort of reliability. At times during 1990-2000 the figure for some patterns hit 80% or so, based on rare trades, but enough to be statistically valid. My site (assuming I don't get hung for this, www.pfscan.com) has a 'news n views' page with some backtest info on it - lust download the last newsletter listed there and it includes tests on the SP500, FT350 etc from 1990 or so on.
The bets I can get my 'automatic' system to manage is around 60%, and I'd hate to have to guarantee more than 50%.... mind you, with sub 40% for Bear signals you could trade bear signals long and manage 60% plus I guess!

Dave
 
It's sad that intelligent people can't or won't understand what a biorhythm is. Search on the internet. It has nothing to do with the market or trading. It measures YOU. It tells you whether you intellectually, physically or emotionally you are in a bad day. That means that ANY decisions you make that day may be impaired. As a trader for many many years, I know I have bad days -nothing to do with the market - to do with my inner self. I would have prefered not to have traded that day. Before you dismiss it, draw your biorhythm charts (they will be different from mine unless you were born on the same day) then look back at your critical days when two lines cross the zero on the same day. Then look at your trading that day and see if you performed well or badly. I am sure DaveJB will be able to add it to his program and then he will sing its praises :cheesy:

Remember, lots of people dismiss charts as hockus pockus, aren't you doing the same thing with biorhythm? Remember it is human nature to reject something you don't understand.

Traders need days off. I have and will take mine off on bad biorhythm days.
 
This is getting silly!

Biorhythms are only one of the twenty seven analysis tools that come with the program. If you don’t want to use it, then you can remove it: Configure\Toolbar Manager\Select Analysis Tools\Configure\Toolbar commands\ and remove.

I don’t know the reasoning behind Updata’s decision to include the Biorhythms tool in the program, I suppose someone must have asked for it – but it wasn’t me! :)

HTH

Cheers

Mayfly
 
Dave, I did say IF I could get better than 70%....
To be fair to Updata, their optimiser for MA's etc does work out very nicely the maximum profit for the minimum trades, taking into account trading costs etc.
It wasn't until I used this tool that I realised that many rules of thumb I'd been using were way off beam.
These tools do give you the chance to re-evaluate many working assumptions that may have been held too long.

Gruntnoway, I come to TA, in part from a statistical background and I am still of the opinion that Biorythms is a Cuckoo in the Updata nest.
As for TA being Hocus-pocus, I loved that quote from "The Office" :
Statistics is like a Lampost to a drunken man.....more often used for support than illumination" :D
The same comment could apply to TA if used without real understanding of how it functions.

Mayfly,
You're quite right and it would be no problem to remove it. I'm not that exercised about it's presence but do feel that it reflects slightly upon UD's cred.
 
Hi Mayfly,
as far as I'm concerned this has simply continued a discussion on Updata into why we think Biorythms do or don't make sense - we might as easily be discussing TRIX or some other inlcuded indicator. There's nothing abnormal about discussing one of the indicators that got brought up during a chat about a program itself.
I thought I'd put a fairly logical argument against biorythms there, and it's perfectly okay to disagree with my point about it being illogical to predict you'll trade badly - I do not consider it a logical response to claim I don't understand something just because I disagree, nor was I aware that I needed anyone's okay to discuss the point.
Gruntnoway - I'm not arguing this point because of an anti Updata stance, but because I genuinely don't agree with refusing to trade because a biorythm chart says I shouldn't. I won't be including them in Pfscan, generally speaking I don't include things I disagree with as a number of people have discovered when asking for their favourite variation on box sizing or whatever. I appreciate you are a committed Updata user, and you honestly have my best wishes that this will remain so - it is a good program, and if the biorythms are useful to you then I'm happy for you there as well.
Dave
 
The same logic applies to, say, Positive Volume Index or Gann angles - both of which I find absolutely useless. I would not however expect the software to leave them out. Horses for courses. Interesting Mayfly says you can remove charts - I will do this when I find out how, because there are some I don't need.

Let's take an example. Would you trade if you had Flu or a temperature of 104. Probanbly not, because you are not in peak condition. Top traders, like top racing drivers have to be fit and alert so they don't make stupid mistakes. I really think you should read up on biorhythms before you dismiss them. They can tell you days on which your decisions may not be good - ANY DECISIONS - not just trading decisions. Any good trader will also tell you that you have to take day's off. How do you decide which ones? Throw a dart at the calendar or ..........well............ you can work it out. :rolleyes:
 
Judging by the "special offers" that I get from Updata daily I would'nt be surprised to be offered aromatherapy to complement the biorythms.

Anybody know if the Updata bosses are any good at trading ?
 
Hi Gruntnoway,
okay - I haven't studied biorythms in depth, but I have read about them and seen them, I would describe my level of knowledge of them as being 'familiar' - I'm as good on biorythms as I am on fixing my car engine.
I am perfectly happy that trading with flu etc is probably a bad idea, I haven't argued at all against avoiding 'bad days' to trade, only with using biorythms to predict them. A large part of how well you trade is acknowledged to depend on your psychological profile - we all react differently to different pressures. You might trade really well whilst all about you is collapsing, whilst I trade well if I feel I'm having an easy ride. You might even 'paper trade' for an hour at the market start, assess those trades for competence, and decide then whether to trade or not. Whilst you'd miss the first hour, which some would argue isn't a good idea, at least you won't miss the whole day just because a chart says you won't perform today.
Humans, like markets, are complex - if you can predict a human's ability to function this way then you can produce similar for markets. I appreciate the intention, but biorythms is a very non-TA way, in my view, to assess performance. At the very least I would suggest you should check past biorythms against performance, to ensure there is a high correlation there, before acting on it - if somebody told me RSI 9 combined with a 38 day EMA was the way to go I'd backtest it before I used it.

Qaza - dunno, it's almost an unfair question though - J Du P is a chartered market technician (apologies if I got the rank wrong <g>) which doesn't make him a good trader, but it does make him knowledgeable about the facts and figures of TA. It would be unfair to beat Updata with this stick, I bet somebody did indeed ask for it and Updata simply figured 'why not, it might sell a few more copies'. Users ask for the strangest things, I've had blazing rows (bet you couldn't guess) with some who insisted I have to add something I think is stupid. (I tend not to end up making those sales). I don't blame Updata for adding it, and I doubt that Jeremy Du P is overly concerned with his biorythm if and when he does trade. They seem, from all the junk mail I get, to be more interested in optimisation which I would argue is a sensible use of their time.

I'm obviously skeptical of the use of biorythms, I'd like to echo Mayfly's drift here - it IS only one part of the program, I'd have deep concerns about them if they seriously pushed the use of this for trading but they don't... I really do think it's just something they said 'oh why not' to, and shouldn't be used as a springboard to attack the rest of the program, the rest of UTA is a good charting program.
Dave
 
Thanks :)
I would hope that Jeremy DU P, posting on a feature in Pfscan would deliver an honest opinion, and I have a high regard for what he has done so I would pay attention to his point(s). Whilst I can understand cynicism about my motives it saddens me - the TA world is plenty big enough for me and Updata, and most or my sales are outside the UK - the UK is a pretty small market, I consciously decided early on that fighting for a small part of a bigger pool made more sense.
I'm not anti Updata at all, if I were taking that stance for sneaky reasons I'd do the same with regard to all 'competition' whereas I actively promote (unpaid) a number of programs operating in the same market. eSignal has something like 30-40,000 users, getting 1% of them to pay me $20 a month makes more sense than trying to put a few dozen off UTA.
I'd applaud the attempt to expand TA (just not the way they did it) - MESA for example makes use of John Ehlers experience in engineering - from my Physics background I quite often think of things I've studied and see parallels in the market, I think it's by delving into this sort of area that we will see real innovation in TA.
Dave
 
Jeremy Duplessy is a trader. I knew him from the indexia days. He was a futures trader then. I attended some three-on-one sesssions with him on trading and learnt a lot. Dunno if he trades now but i don't think you can produce trading software without being one.
 
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