Ukraine invasion

On the 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index where a score of 100 means you're as pure as driven snow and zero means you're highly corrupt - what score do you think Ukraine has and where does it sit on a world ranking of 180 countries?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Score: 32
World ranking: 122
:ROFLMAO:
 
counter_violent said:
Using the same scale, Russia sits at 29

Conclusion

Tim scores own goal.
Click to expand...
You're overlooking one incy wincy tiny little detail, c_v. Namely, I'm not the one claiming anything about Russia.
I've never said it was a paragon of virtue or anything of the kind. You, on the other hand, are keen to present Zelensky and Ukraine as exactly that - they can say and do no wrong. As I and those on this side of the debate keep pointing out, we see things as they are and not as we want them to be. I've lost count of the number of times I've said there are no good guys 'n bad guys - they're all bad. So no, no own goal at all. Nice try though. ;-)
Tim.
 
No superhero and supervilain but there are very different shades of grey.
Ukraine is not a model, it is a corrupt and poor country, nobody denies it.
 
This is how desperate the situation's becoming for Zelensky and Ukraine:
Eurovision winners sell trophy to fund Ukraine’s war effort
The $900,000 won't get them very far. My understanding is that the Boeing Insitu ScanEagle cost’s around $1 million and is purely a reconnaissance drone often used by the US border control. Reaper drones, a weapons platform, starts at $32 million. That’s without training to use it which would take weeks - if not months. Time for Zelensky to throw in the towel and negotiate, save lives and end the war.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
You're overlooking one incy wincy tiny little detail, c_v. Namely, I'm not the one claiming anything about Russia.
I've never said it was a paragon of virtue or anything of the kind. You, on the other hand, are keen to present Zelensky and Ukraine as exactly that - they can say and do no wrong. As I and those on this side of the debate keep pointing out, we see things as they are and not as we want them to be. I've lost count of the number of times I've said there are no good guys 'n bad guys - they're all bad. So no, no own goal at all. Nice try though. ;-)
Tim.
Click to expand...

The difference is, Ukraine has been trying to move away from corruption since the collapse of the Soviet Union, whereas Russia, after a brief dalliance with openness and democracy, is now going backwards.

It doesn't matter what you think about western democracy. The plain simple fact is, it's way better than China or Russia, and I don't need to visit either country to know this.
 
Switchblade drone costs around 6k .
About big drones they are trained and successful with bayraktar so it is better for them to stick on those.
Bayraktar costs 5 millions, consistent with a tank cost of 2 millions.
 
timsk said:
This is how desperate the situation's becoming for Zelensky and Ukraine:
Eurovision winners sell trophy to fund Ukraine’s war effort
The $900,000 won't get them very far. My understanding is that the Boeing Insitu ScanEagle cost’s around $1 million and is purely a reconnaissance drone often used by the US border control. Reaper drones, a weapons platform, starts at $32 million. That’s without training to use it which would take weeks - if not months. Time for Zelensky to throw in the towel and negotiate, save lives and end the war.
Tim.
Click to expand...

Yet another example of ordinary Ukrainians putting country before self.

Yet, you seem happy to scoff at their efforts to rebuff the aggressor.

Weird doesn't even begin to describe it.

Not everything has to be viewed as conspiracy. I know quite a number of people now who view everything as conspiracy.

It's not too late to get back to some semblance of rational thought you know.
 
counter_violent said:
It's not too late to get back to some semblance of rational thought you know.
Click to expand...
c_v,
My position is based on logic, facts and backed by the not unreasonable view that war is bad and it would be in everyone's best interests if it ended sooner rather than later. Please outline anything about that - or comments that I've posted - that are irrational. What is irrational, IMO, is wanting to perpetuate a war that has bugger all to do with us, costs £billions we haven't got and there's a snowball's chance in hell of winning. That's weirder than a very weird weird thing!
;)
 
counter_violent said:
Ukraine has been trying to move away from corruption since the collapse of the Soviet Union
Click to expand...
That's completely wrong, they started with corruption after the collapse of the USSR. In all former Soviet countries. I don't know what you got or remeber about the Years 1989 to 1993/95 in the former Soviet countries.

Now they have the problem that they cannot join EU because of that and the billions disappeared from the country, besides in the Western countries also politicians are directly or indirectly paid for decisions about companies belonging relatives or "consulting" contracts which I also would call corruption.
But there is no law to punish it in the West.
 
In the 90s Russia and Ukraine were very similar: freedom and extreme corruption.
After 2012 when Putin turned authoritarian, Ukraine tried to distance from Russia.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
In the 90s Russia and Ukraine were very similar: freedom and extreme corruption.
After 2012 when Putin turned authoritarian, Ukraine tried to distance from Russia.
Click to expand...

Like any countries formerly interfered with by Russia, they have no desire to go back. No matter how long it takes, or how many bumps in the road, Ukraine's intention is to put as much distance between itself and Russia. If that means cleaning up corruption in order to become part of a much better club (Europe), then they will do it.

The fact that Russia doesn't like it, well that's tough !
 
IlIlIlIlI said:
Now they have the problem that they cannot join EU because of that and the billions disappeared from the country, besides in the Western countries also politicians are directly or indirectly paid for decisions about companies belonging relatives or "consulting" contracts which I also would call corruption.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of the Faulty Towers 'Don't Mention the War!' episode.
Now it's don't mention Hunter Biden's laptop! :ROFLMAO:
 
This is written so nice that I must share it:
------------------------------------------------
"The head of the British Foreign Office, Liz Truss, who is a known history and geography expert, warned people in Bosnia and Herzegovina against trusting Russia because of its ‘malign influence’ on the region," Zakharova said in a post on her Telegram channel Monday.

In turn, the diplomat described NATO’s influence as "unscrupulously destructive", recalling the alliance’s bombings of the former Yugoslavia, when depleted uranium projectiles were used. "Liz Truss knows about the Tatar-Mongol invasion of Ukraine, good girl, but is unaware of NATO bombings of Belgrade? Then some more instances of Western influence on the Balkans might be of interest to her," Zakharova wrote.

At the start of World War II, Yugoslavia’s government "begged the brits" for help in the face of the Third Reich, but London ignored it and even took advantage of the war to pursue its own interests in Europe, she reminded.

In the 1990s, Britain as part of the western coalition covered up for human organ trafficking by Kosovo Albanians, as well as trade in all sorts of illicit goods, including weapons, Zakharova said, adding that the country’s actions in the region were "more destructive than powder and bombs, and more lethal than plague".
------------------------------------------------
source: https://tass.com/politics/1458023
 
IlIlIlIlI said:
This is written so nice that I must share it:
------------------------------------------------
"The head of the British Foreign Office, Liz Truss, who is a known history and geography expert, warned people in Bosnia and Herzegovina against trusting Russia because of its ‘malign influence’ on the region," Zakharova said in a post on her Telegram channel Monday.

In turn, the diplomat described NATO’s influence as "unscrupulously destructive", recalling the alliance’s bombings of the former Yugoslavia, when depleted uranium projectiles were used. "Liz Truss knows about the Tatar-Mongol invasion of Ukraine, good girl, but is unaware of NATO bombings of Belgrade? Then some more instances of Western influence on the Balkans might be of interest to her," Zakharova wrote.

At the start of World War II, Yugoslavia’s government "begged the brits" for help in the face of the Third Reich, but London ignored it and even took advantage of the war to pursue its own interests in Europe, she reminded.

In the 1990s, Britain as part of the western coalition covered up for human organ trafficking by Kosovo Albanians, as well as trade in all sorts of illicit goods, including weapons, Zakharova said, adding that the country’s actions in the region were "more destructive than powder and bombs, and more lethal than plague".
------------------------------------------------
source: https://tass.com/politics/1458023
Click to expand...
The Peter Principle.

Liz Truss is typical of someone who has been promoted to the level of her incompetence. There are thousands of them in all walks of life.

Putin is another.

en.wikipedia.org

Peter principle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
counter_violent said:
The Peter Principle.

Liz Truss is typical of someone who has been promoted to the level of her incompetence. There are thousands of them in all walks of life.

Putin is another.
Click to expand...

c_v,
I agree with you 100% about Liz Truss, but Putin is a smart cookie and far more competent than most other politicians. He certainly outclasses everyone in the U.K. Caution: don't confuse this with me liking Putin, agreeing with his actions or in any way condoning/supporting his invasion of Ukraine. I absolutely don't. However, he's worthy of our respect in the way that Truss and BoJo simply aren't. By comparison, they're both jabbering idiots.

Maidstone and Weald MP Helen Grant's son Ben Grant filmed 'destroying Russian armoured vehicle'
Let's hope that Ben Grant makes it out of Ukraine alive. He was enticed over there by Truss' propaganda and, heaven forbid anything should happen to him, otherwise she'll have his blood on her hands. She's very dangerous woman totally unfit for public office, IMO.
Tim.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

trendie
nasty invasive CMC advert
Replies
11
Views
3K
shadowninja
shadowninja
N Rothschild
Ukraine flu
Replies
0
Views
1K
N Rothschild
N Rothschild
M
Austria - Ukraine
Replies
0
Views
2K
markvighan
M
J
Ukraine plays?
Replies
8
Views
2K
PieterSteidelmayer
P
Y
Investing in Ukraine !
Replies
0
Views
2K
Yuriy
Y
Top