Ukraine invasion

CavaliereVerde said:
Let's recap a little bit.
Ukraine is an independent country and has the right to defend its legal borders.
There were no genocide of Russians in Ukraine.
Putin started to grab land from Ukraine in 2014 (Crimea) to protect the black sea fleet and to boost his image.
US and Russia have been always meddling with Ukraine politics just like the politics of 90% of the countries in the world.
Politics is one thing invasions are onother.
Click to expand...
CV,
That's a very one sided version of events, factually questionable in parts and extremely disingenuous, as you make no attempt to pay lip service to the flip side of the coin.
CavaliereVerde said:
With support Ukraine can win the war in 1 year, without support they will win in 3-6 years.
Click to expand...
Really? How? Give me specifics with links to credible people like General Zaluzhny who explains how victory can be achieved. Oh wait, he already has and he says it can't be achieved without . . . I can't be ar$ed - you know the rest.

I'm seriously considering leaving this thread as there's really no point to this ridiculous circular 'discussion' whereby I, histo' and others make a valid point, then you, c_v and R_L either ignore it completely or dismiss it out of hand without providing any supporting evidence, reason or logic. You then circle back to your banal mantra of 'Zelensky good - Putin bad' as if that answers and justifies everything. It's tedious beyond belief and fails completely to address the fundamental issues outlined in my last post. Unless those of you on the wrong side of the argument are prepared to do that - there's really no point in continuing to engage with any of you.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
Really? How? Give me specifics with links to credible people like General Zaluzhny who explains how victory can be achieved.
Click to expand...
If Zaluzhny declares that he needs 400 tanks to win it does not mean that without them he will lose the war.
While US is pretty vocal about their help there are many countries sending stuff in a discrete way.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
If Zaluzhny declares that he needs 400 tanks to win it does not mean that without them he will lose the war.
Click to expand...
Oh for heavens sake CV - do you posses an ounce of intellectual integrity? Zaluzhny's made it abundantly clear that he needs another army in order to win the war. We're not talking about a just few tanks: his shopping list is larger than the entire U.K. and French armies combined. Without it, all he can do is drag the conflict out further until one of two things happens:
1. His forces are so depleted that he's forced to throw in the towel.
2. NATO comes to Ukraine's rescue and then the conflict will, likely as not, turn nuclear.
These are the only two options.
CavaliereVerde said:
While US is pretty vocal about their help there are many countries sending stuff in a discrete way.
Click to expand...
Nonsense and you know it. If Ukraine had what they needed then Zaluzhny wouldn't have spelled out his shopping list would he? Besides, if by 'discrete' you mean no one knows who's sending what - that includes you. In other words, for all you know, these 'many countries' are sending pitch forks.

Now, justify the killing and destruction and explain why it's necessary that it continues - even to the point of nuclear war. Provide a logical and reasoned argument and if you're going to stick to this ridiculous line about Ukraine winning, then I repeat, where's your evidence? How are they going to win and at what cost? Of course, you won't answer these questions because they've been asked hundreds of times already and you have nothing, zilch, nada.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
Oh for heavens sake CV - do you posses an ounce of intellectual integrity?
Click to expand...
I dont' like this tone and you are using it too frequently.
timsk said:
Provide a logical and reasoned argument and if you're going to stick to this ridiculous line about Ukraine winning, then I repeat, where's your evidence? How are they going to win and at what cost?
Click to expand...
The events of these 10 months of war.
And where is the evidence that Russia is winning?
 
CavaliereVerde said:
I dont' like this tone and you are using it too frequently.
Click to expand...
CV,
Well, if you want my 'tone' to improve, all you need do is display some intellectual integrity. If you're unable or unwilling to do that, you always have the option of putting me on ignore.
CavaliereVerde said:
The events of these 10 months of war.
Click to expand...
This is a poor start as it in no way even begins to address the questions posed.
CavaliereVerde said:
And where is the evidence that Russia is winning?
Click to expand...
That's very simple. Just look at Russia's stated objectives (that I outlined recently), keep them in mind, and then compare where they are today to where they were on the 23rd February last year. Now do the same for Ukraine. Self evidently, the latter are a whole heap worse off now than they were this time last year. Granted, Russia's 'progress' might not be your idea of winning, or mine either for that matter but, as I keep pointing out, what we want, wish and hope for is of no interest or concern to the Russians.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
That's very simple. Just look at Russia's stated objectives (that I outlined recently), keep them in mind, and then compare where they are today to where they were on the 23rd February last year. Now do the same for Ukraine. Self evidently, the latter are a whole heap worse off now than they were this time last year. Granted, Russia's 'progress' might not be your idea of winning, or mine either for that matter but, as I keep pointing out, what we want, wish and hope for is of no interest or concern to the Russians.
Click to expand...
Fair point, let's wait and see where they will be on 23rd Feb 2024.
 
Last edited:

Update on Russian military operations in Ukraine for January 2, 2023
  • Fighting continues around Bakhmut and across the wider Donbass region.
  • Russian missile and drone strikes continue for several days now.
  • Ukrainian sources claim “all” drones were downed but damage to infrastructure proves otherwise.
  • Ukraine claims to have hit Russian troops with a HIMARS rocket attack.
  • The attack is only in the news because it happens so infrequently.
  • Russia carries out similar attacks nearly daily with its much larger number of guided-rocket launchers and ballistic missile systems.
  • NATO admits Russia can fight on long-term and that Ukraine requires long-term support.
  • EU begins training 1,100 Ukrainians for 2 months and plans to train up to 15,000 over the next 2+ years.
  • 200-300 Ukrainian perish in fighting daily at a minimum with fighting around Bakhmut raising deaths and injuries to around 1,000 daily.
  • Russian President Vladimir Putin reiterates that the West is using Ukraine as a proxy to harm Russia, a fact stated in US policy documents like RAND's 2019 "Extending Russia" paper.

 
timsk said:
  • Ukraine claims to have hit Russian troops with a HIMARS rocket attack.
  • The attack is only in the news because it happens so infrequently.
Click to expand...
Not just Ukraine. And maybe the attack is in the news because it's "one of the deadliest attacks on the Kremlin’s forces since the war began more than 10 months ago."
apnews.com

Moscow says Ukrainian rocket strike kills 63 Russian troops

Russia’s defense ministry says 63 of its soldiers have been killed by a Ukrainian strike on a facility in the eastern Donetsk region where military personnel were stationed.
apnews.com apnews.com

Don't worry about the Russian soldiers killed -- replacements will be available soon!
https://twitter.com/x/status/1608822488246681602

Now, if only the Russians would realize if they withdrew back to Russia, there would be no need for anyone to attack. Instead, they fire one general and install another -- because this time it will be different.:)

Russia replaces head of Western invasion group in Ukraine​

For the fourth time, Russia is replacing the head of the Western Invasion Group (WGF) in Ukraine.​

By JERUSALEM POST STAFF

Published: JANUARY 1, 2023 18:09
Updated: JANUARY 2, 2023 00:00
Email Twitter Facebook fb-messenger
(photo credit: Ministry of Defense Russia)


(photo credit: Ministry of Defense Russia)
Advertisement


Colonel General Sergin Surovikin, "The Butcher of Syria", is being replaced by Russian Lieutenant General Yevgeny Nikiforov in heading Russia's Western Group of Forces in Ukraine.

Lieutenant General Nikiforov will be the 4th person to have taken this position since the invasion of Ukraine began; his predecessor only held the position for three months.

This change in leadership has seemingly inspired some new strategic decisions, according to the UK Ministry of Defense, as a new wave of long-range strikes targetting power distributors launched on the 29th of December. It is thought that the aim of the attacks is to diminish Ukrainian morale for the New Year.
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This is very interesting for all serious followers of Ukraine and it's direction of travel away from Russian influence and towards real democracy.

It makes even more sense for those who bothered to watch Zelensky's "servant of the people".

www.bbc.co.uk

Russia's war drains Ukraine's rich list of power

Ukraine's billionaire oligarchs have lost money and influence because of the war.
www.bbc.co.uk

Take a look who's at the bottom of the list. The one and only Putin puppet and former president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko. Well whooda thunk it !

So, as iv'e previously stated, Zelensky, backed by the people of Ukraine, chose to follow the road map as per "servant of the people", to rid Ukraine of Russian influence and also to rid itself of Russia supporting oligarchs and political corruption.

So now it is perfectly clear once and for all why Putin is doubling down on his efforts to bring Ukraine back into the fold.
Putin fears democracy above all else. Even more than NATO and fake Nazi's.
 
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counter_violent said:
It makes even more sense for those who bothered to watch Zelensky's "servant of the people".
Click to expand...
c_v,
As you're an expert on Zelensy's sitcom, can you link to the episode in which he pledges to tackle corruption, clean up Ukraine’s oligarch-dominated ruling system and rails against oligarchs who hide their wealth offshore? Needless to say, this goes down a storm with the electorate and, on the back of it, he wins 73% of the vote in real life. The only incy wincy little detail that he 'forgets' to mention to his audince/voters is that he's doing the exact same thing himself. Well whooda thunk it !

Revealed: ‘anti-oligarch’ Ukrainian president’s offshore connections​

 
timsk said:
c_v,
As you're an expert on Zelensy's sitcom, can you link to the episode in which he pledges to tackle corruption, clean up Ukraine’s oligarch-dominated ruling system and rails against oligarchs who hide their wealth offshore? Needless to say, this goes down a storm with the electorate and, on the back of it, he wins 73% of the vote in real life. The only incy wincy little detail that he 'forgets' to mention to his audince/voters is that he's doing the exact same thing himself. Well whooda thunk it !

Revealed: ‘anti-oligarch’ Ukrainian president’s offshore connections​

Click to expand...
Obviously, the show's writers and stars were simply authenticating the methods used by these corrupt people in Ukraine and Russia, so as to ensure realistic performance. Legitimate research i'd call it. :ROFLMAO:
 
CavaliereVerde said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1610277981032747009
Click to expand...
It's a pathetic display on the part of the Russians and an utterly hopeless situation they find themselves in.

Tim should write to Putin and urge him to withdraw before every conscript becomes fertiliser.
We already know that Zelensky won't back down or cede any territory to Russia. So for humanities sake Tim, get on to Putin before it's too late!
 
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