UK Politics

Atilla said:
UK needs a migration policy based on something like what the Australians have, scoring skills, aptitude age and wealth etc. Shouldn't be beyond the ability of our elite toffs to contrive something a little better than Rawanda.
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The UK Points Based System: A Guide​

The UK Points Based System: A Guide | DavidsonMorris

The United Kingdom's Points Based System (PBS) sets the framework for those looking to apply for a UK work, study or business visa. Introduced to coincide with Brexit, the Points Based System was designed to reshape immigration to the UK, aligning it more closely with the country's economic and...
www.davidsonmorris.com www.davidsonmorris.com

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

The Australian points-based system: what is it and what would its impact be in the UK? - Migration Observatory

Boris Johnson has proposed an 'Australian style' points-based system for skilled migrant workers to the UK. This report explains what this might mean.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
What are the advantages and disadvantages of points systems?

Debates about the impacts of points systems have focused on one feature in particular: the ability to qualify without an employer sponsor. This has both advantages and disadvantages that are two sides of the same coin.

On one hand, workers entering under the Australian points system are less dependent on their employers and do not need permission to switch between jobs as they do in the UK; as a result, they are expected to have more bargaining power and to operate in a more competitive labour market.

The most common criticism of points systems is that they often do not require a job offer and if workers do not have employment lined up, it is difficult to know whether they are actually employable. The system relies on the government’s perception of what skills are valuable, rather than on the views of the employers who are to recruit them. Evaluation data from Canada suggested that highly educated migrant workers selected without a job offer during the 2000s were less likely to find skilled work after arrival compared to those selected by employers. As noted above, the government closed the UK’s previous ‘Australian-style’ points-based system in 2010-2011 because of concerns that the people it admitted were not finding skilled work.

Employment outcomes for points-tested migrants in Australia have been relatively good, however. According to data on cohorts of skilled migrants surveyed from 2014 to 2016, points-tested independent migrants coming directly from overseas had employment rates of over 90% 18 months after arrival, and higher median earnings that other skilled migrants, including even employer sponsored ones. (Counterintuitively, points-tested migrants switching from another visa in Australia do less well, perhaps due to differences in the composition of this group.)

However, points systems do not have to admit workers without job offers. It would be possible to require all applicants to have a job offer, or only give visas to people who have skilled work experience in the country (and thus demonstrated that they are employable in the UK).

The other implications of points systems have not received as much scrutiny. However, criticisms include the fact that eligibility criteria can be unpredictable if candidate are ranked against each other and a specific number admitted. This is because the bar for admission will be higher in periods when more other people are applying. (This was one of the outcomes of the UK’s mini-points test to prioritise oversubscribed Tier 2 (general) applications when the cap on this category was hit, described above.)

In summary, the impacts of introducing a new points system in the UK would depend crucially on how the system was designed, including questions such as what points were issued for, whether the route was be for temporary or permanent visas, and whether employer sponsorship would still be required.

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The Points System is Dead. Long Live the Points System!” Why Immigration Policymakers in the UK Are Never Quite Happy with Their Points Systems

Abstract​

The UK’s ‘Australian-style’ points-based system (PBS), introduced in 2021, has been promoted by politicians as a strategy to ‘take back control’ of migration after leaving the European Union. However, the 2021 PBS is just the most recent of several initiatives since 2002 to introduce points into the UK’s labor migration policy. Points tests in various forms have been repeatedly introduced, modified, and removed in the UK’s immigration system. This paper examines what accounts for the enduring appeal and repeated reinvention of this policy tool. We argue that the main factor driving interest in points-based systems is not what they achieve in practice, but their symbolic value. Points systems have allowed policymakers to signal that labor migration policy is objective, rational, meritocratic and efficient. These objectives appear to outweigh the substantive policy benefits of points-based systems as mechanisms for accumulating human capital or offering flexibility in eligibility criteria.

source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15562948.2022.2142719#abstract
 
A non-partisan research post - London
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Labour's offer to end crippling rail strikes means cash bung for hundreds of drivers who have left the profession​

Labour's offer to end crippling rail strikes means cash bung for hundreds of drivers who have left the profession​

www.dailymail.co.uk

Labour's offer to end rail strikes means cash bung for past drivers

Ministers said on Wednesday that they had struck a deal with union barons which would see the average driver's salary soar by 14 per cent to about £69,000.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Atilla said:
UK didn't spend that money on migrants. That money goes to propping up big insititutions, landlords and MP's + House of Lords, who have vested interest in supporting those migrants in terms of housing and services.

This is the whole shenanigans. Migrants are just a smoke screen. Same as giving money to Ukraine, it comes back to UK defence industries.

This is what the joe public don't freaking get.

The wealthy schmucks spend their rental incomes on holidays, fast cars and other non-productive investments like managing shit damp properties for the poor sausages and migrants.

It is the circle of income. So quoting all those statistics is a red rag to dumb joe public who gets hot under the collar blaming migrants and foreign labour. My local hospital is full of hard working nurses and doctors from India and Phillipines. Very few white English doctors and nurses. Go figure.

UK then goes shit stirring and bombing with the US, all over the world creating more refugees.

Nigel Farage blames the EU and migrants for our poor productivity and economic growth. That one trick pony. When will sad fookers wake up and change the language. Some tosser of a police officer kicks a lasered guy in the face when he is flat down ans stamps on his head, and Reform (Nigel's party) MPs support the action saying officers should be given a medal. That is a lot of hate in those words before anyone knows what took place.

UK is turning into a very empty vessel of a sad state. Foreign students turning away from British universities. Universities now crying for funds. UK crying out for more brains.

Since Brexit water companies just dumping sewage into rivers. No obligation to keep coastlines clean either.

Just one issue after another.

Heard a very funny comment on the radio. Farage should put him self forward to lead the Conservatives. I think he should. Guy hasn't done anything but destroy goodness and value. Let's see how deep into the sewage he can lead the UK.


Carrying on by attacking migrant labour seeking work, will further lead UK to fall behind.
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Your posts consistently demonstrate that you hate the UK and everything about it. That being the case then why not just leave the country and let the rest of us get on with living here and making the best of what we have?
 
Inquisitor said:
Your posts consistently demonstrate that you hate the UK and everything about it. That being the case then why not just leave the country and let the rest of us get on with living here and making the best of what we have?
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Becaause I am British and have a vested interest in the UK doing well. I have married an English rose and have two children of mixed race.

Why don't you use that brain of yours educate your self, get a good job contributing to England's economy and pay higher rate of income tax, instead of squabling like rats in shoe box, with the daft elite tofts running down the countries infrastructure and blaming little poor migrants who've had the shit bombed out of them.

You need to look at Tory policy and governance, despite talking tough on migrants and immigration they've let in 00s of 000s over their term. Do you not see that peeps with small brains who are only looking for scape goats blame the little guy.

Why don't you think about the points I raise and answer those instead of telling me to naff off? You plonker. (y)
 
Your reply again demonstrates a lack of intelligence as I am not a Tory (as you have presumed) and have not made any comments on migration into the UK. It is you who constantly post about how much you hate everything in the UK and how it is all to be blamed on anyone but yourself. You play the same record as the anti immigration lot except backwards. If you want to change the UK then stand for election as that is the only way anything can change. Your lack of understanding about how people decide to vote is also more than clear. Blaming Brexit lies for why the UK left the EU is a great example of this.

When the referendum was announced I don’t know of anyone who changed their minds based on the campaigns of either side. Everyone had already decided how they would vote the moment the referendum was announced because people don’t vote on facts or data, they vote entirely on how they feel. You also conveniently don’t mention that the remain campaign told us that the GBP would fall to below a USD, that house prices would collapse and that unemployment would be at record levels all of which were also total lies but because it was on the side you backed apparently don’t count.

Cameron is the one that caused all this because he is a gambler and as always happens with gamblers eventually a gamble will fail. He never wanted a vote on leaving the EU and believed that he would never need to deliver on the offer of one. He thought that he would be in coalition again in the 2015 election and part of that deal would be to scrap the EU referendum but it went wrong because the Tories won a majority. That meant he had to deliver on the promise and the rest is history.

We are seeing the impact of how people are feeling now in the recent riots and counter demonstrations and yet no one is factoring in that throwing facts at people is not going to change how they feel. The sooner politicians move away from identity politics (which makes most people feel they don’t belong or are not important) the better.

In all the time you have posted on here I have yet to see anyone change their mind based on what you post with your “facts and data” most of which is challenged anyway and often shown to be wrong. Maybe it is you who is the plonker as you are clearly making no difference at all to swaying people to your anti UK view.
 

Rachel Reeves insists she will not hand unions 'blank cheques' despite bumper pay deals for train drivers and doctors - as workers' leaders plot bid to undo all anti-strike laws introduced since Margaret Thatcher was PM​

www.dailymail.co.uk

Rachel Reeves insists she will not hand unions 'blank cheques' for pay

The Chancellor is under fire for approving bumper pay deals to tens of thousands of workers to end crippling strike action which has blighted services for the past few years.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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Inquisitor said:
Your reply again demonstrates a lack of intelligence as I am not a Tory (as you have presumed) and have not made any comments on migration into the UK. It is you who constantly post about how much you hate everything in the UK and how it is all to be blamed on anyone but yourself. You play the same record as the anti immigration lot except backwards. If you want to change the UK then stand for election as that is the only way anything can change. Your lack of understanding about how people decide to vote is also more than clear. Blaming Brexit lies for why the UK left the EU is a great example of this.

When the referendum was announced I don’t know of anyone who changed their minds based on the campaigns of either side. Everyone had already decided how they would vote the moment the referendum was announced because people don’t vote on facts or data, they vote entirely on how they feel. You also conveniently don’t mention that the remain campaign told us that the GBP would fall to below a USD, that house prices would collapse and that unemployment would be at record levels all of which were also total lies but because it was on the side you backed apparently don’t count.

Cameron is the one that caused all this because he is a gambler and as always happens with gamblers eventually a gamble will fail. He never wanted a vote on leaving the EU and believed that he would never need to deliver on the offer of one. He thought that he would be in coalition again in the 2015 election and part of that deal would be to scrap the EU referendum but it went wrong because the Tories won a majority. That meant he had to deliver on the promise and the rest is history.

We are seeing the impact of how people are feeling now in the recent riots and counter demonstrations and yet no one is factoring in that throwing facts at people is not going to change how they feel. The sooner politicians move away from identity politics (which makes most people feel they don’t belong or are not important) the better.

In all the time you have posted on here I have yet to see anyone change their mind based on what you post with your “facts and data” most of which is challenged anyway and often shown to be wrong. Maybe it is you who is the plonker as you are clearly making no difference at all to swaying people to your anti UK view.
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Well this is a much better reply with some substance than telling one to go away because they don't like what they hear. I was beginning to think you had reached the limit of your mental faculties as your previous and other posts on this site were of substance and worthy of a read.

I gave you an honest response sharing personal information. What reply did you expect or want to hear, that you may have considered intelligent, I'd like to know.

From my perspective, you tell someone to naff off and then to expect an intelligent reply is questionable in it self. Would you say the same to the opposition bench in Parliament?

Ok with respect to your comments: it was not Cameron's fault but the Tory sceptics. It was always Labour who was against the EEC and Tories in favour. Thatcher started it with her handbag waving which ignited the so called Tory sceptics. Thatcher getting a rebate on UK contributions was good but subsequent UK activities and the Tory EU sceptics not so imo. These sceptics caused the same issues to other PMs including John Major who famously referred to them as Bastards if I recall. The ultimate body is obviously Nigel Farage and the right of the party. Cameron simply didn't want Labour to get in with the Tory vote being split.

All the arguments and it was the emotive migrants and the pack of lies told led us to this place now and so it continues. You can give it any other twist you want. In your post though you don't sound too happy either. Why not get it off your chest and enjoy the responses that you get back? :)

People will not confess to changing their minds as no one likes to eat humble pie.

I'll be moving as it happens but will also have one foot in the UK too, unless kids go off global somewhere. Sadly you will still have to read my pov contributing to debate on how we can make the UK better. Hope you have a better day then yesterday (y):)(y)
 
Atilla said:
. . . People will not confess to changing their minds as no one likes to eat humble pie. . .
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At',
Maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule, as I'm always willing to. . .
1) . . .Change my mind if/when I realise I'm not in full possession of the facts and, when I realise my initial position is wrong, I'm happy to admit it and do a u-turn and/or adopt the opposing view.
Example: Brexit. I started out as a remainer and took the pi$$ out of the likes of c_v for wanting to leave the EU. That was before I fully understood what the EU was and how it worked. When I researched it, I didn't like what I saw. At which point I realised c_v et al were right and that we're waaaaay better off not being in it. Nothing has happened since then (i.e. the 2016 referendum) to make me change my mind and revert back to my broadly pro-EU stance.

2) . . .Change my mind on any issue if the facts change and/or new evidence comes to light.
Example: the pandemic. I started out being fully on board with the government's approach in early 2020, banging saucepans in support of the NHS on Thursday nights and was genuinely fearful when BoJo went into hospital that he might not come out. Well, not alive that is. Then the facts started to emerge, drip by drip, and I realised the whole thing was a scam and the public - indeed entire nations - had been duped.

The point At', is that I'm open minded to any argument that you (or anyone else) puts forward that either trumps mine or shows it to be false in some way. However, I'm afraid none of your posts regarding immigration address the basic fact that importing a population the size of Dublin or Bristol every year requires massive amounts of infrastructure to support them. Forget about integration, multiculturalism and ideologies that conflict with our own: that's all secondary. The primary issue is that the infrastructure simply isn't there to support such large numbers of people. If the 750k migrants are all well paid professionals who generate sufficient revenue to pay for said infrastructure - then fine. However, clearly they don't or, if they do, it ain't being spent on the necessary transport, education and healthcare etc. This is the primary reason for the recent demonstrations and the elephant in the room that the government and media choose to ignore, preferring instead to blame Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson and the largely non-existent 'far right'. The irony is that the majority of people on the demonstrations are working class and most of them are labour voters.
Tim.
 
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timsk said:
The primary issue is that the infrastructure simply isn't there to support such large numbers of people. If the 750k migrants are all well paid professionals who generate sufficient revenue to pay for said infrastructure - then fine.
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I guess we would need to look at what % of the so called migrants have come over illegally on boats and what % are workers who have come over legitametly with working visas to answer this question.

The infrastructure isn't there to support even the British population, bearing in mind large majority of migrants are there to precisely support the infrastructure that needs propping up; i.e. NHS and care workers looking after the elderly.

Increase in population or put another way 300K migrants adds 1% to economic growth. Remove migrants from the labour force and UK would be in a recession. One could say UK would be in perpetual recession as productivity in the UK has historically been low.

However, as pointed out this migration b0ll0x is all an emotive issue to do with national identity, culture and all that kind of tosh. Nothing to do with facts or statistics. So I'll stop wasting my breath on death ears. (y)

Bit like Fisheries in the Brexit fiasco. https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/how...exit deal that was,lost customers as a result.
 
Atilla said:
. . . So I'll stop wasting my breath on death ears. (y)
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At',
I've made it crystal clear that I'm open to changing my mind on this (and any other) issue IF you present me with a compelling argument and you can demonstrate how importing 750K peeps year on year is remotely sustainable. (Common sense says it can't be.) Regarding the former, your 'go to' argument is to trot out the ol' chestnut: 'the NHS needs them'. If the NHS was in great shape and the envy of the world, then that mantra might carry some weight. But, sadly, nothing could be further from the truth. As for the economic growth figures - these are highly contestable and don't take account of the costs in building a city the size of Dublin or Bristol every year. Far from providing a net gain to the exchequer, I maintain that mass immigration is a net drain on the exchequer: Immigration and Economics.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
At',
I've made it crystal clear that I'm open to changing my mind on this (and any other) issue IF you present me with a compelling argument and you can demonstrate how importing 750K peeps year on year is remotely sustainable. (Common sense says it can't be.) Regarding the former, your 'go to' argument is to trot out the ol' chestnut: 'the NHS needs them'. If the NHS was in great shape and the envy of the world, then that mantra might carry some weight. But, sadly, nothing could be further from the truth. As for the economic growth figures - these are highly contestable and don't take account of the costs in building a city the size of Dublin or Bristol every year. Far from providing a net gain to the exchequer, I maintain that mass immigration is a net drain on the exchequer: Immigration and Economics.
Tim.
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Net immigration is a UK policy and has been since post WWII.

Since the inflationary period of the 70s, UK productivity has just constantly fell with wage inflation. Net immigration keeps the unions and the labour force under the kosh and wages low, also raises productivity and the GDP figures.

British don't pick fruit for minimum wage doncha know?

Then there is the aging population and falling birth rates and shrinking tax base. Not just because of births and deaths but also, less % of population in the labour force are working whilst more are claiming benefits for all sorts of physical and mental ailments. I've seen quite a few English ladies and gentlemen do this not just a migrant issue who are more than keen to work 11-12 hour days at min wage to get ahead.

It is simply a numbers game and the economics of it all. Fact of the matter is UK can not do without the economic migrants.

Yes the very small % of illegal migrants arriving in boats are an issue but they are pretty insignificant and the fact soooo much air time is given to them along with some politicians banging their drum distorts the whole agenda and challenges facing the UK. It's a red rag to a raging bull.

Look at British industries and productivity and training the British population along with the health and safety of the nation so it can thrive. Look at British universities. The freaking Conservatives have cut back on teacher class sizes, police numbers and training of nurses. People with mental illnesses are released into care-in-the-community. Water companies discharging shit into rivers coz it's cheaper guv, so CEO's get bigger bonuses. So called Private Train companies running with state subsidies otherwise fares go shooting up. etc etc etc.

Challenges facing the UK have now been handed over to Labour and the Daily Trash still selling shit news to the masses who are clueless.

Do you not see how it is soooo much easier to blame people who don't look like us. Sacrificial scape goats.

Issue is because the airways and TVs and Nigel Farage wearing a suit and tie, respectfully mouths off UK infrastructure is not sufficient to support migrants and we have no control because of EU sets off a whole range of catastrophies as a result.

Well here is a question for you, so we are out of EU why the economic migrants still going up? Tories in power for over a decade talking tough and what have they delivered. Liz Truss economic model was based on raising migrant numbers. Go figure.

Some people up there - at the top, aren't leveling up with you. So you know! All these economic migrants aren't optional. Focus on the big matters in hand.
 
Atilla said:
Net immigration is a UK policy and has been since post WWII. . .
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All very interesting At' but, sadly, addresses just about everything under the sun other than the fundamental point I keep coming back to time after time. Namely, that 750K migrants arriving in the U.K every year is totally unsustainable. Unless and until you can persuade me otherwise, I don't think there's much point in either of us continuing with this exchange.
 
timsk said:
All very interesting At' but, sadly, addresses just about everything under the sun other than the fundamental point I keep coming back to time after time. Namely, that 750K migrants arriving in the U.K every year is totally unsustainable. Unless and until you can persuade me otherwise, I don't think there's much point in either of us continuing with this exchange.
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Are you saying 750K migrants came into the UK illegally?
 
Atilla said:
Are you saying 750K migrants came into the UK illegally?
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:rolleyes:
Oh dear oh dear At'. If you've read my posts, you'd know the answer to this question.

All I'm saying - for the umpteenth time - is that those numbers are unsustainable. It's just plain common sense. Government policy, budgets, inflation, productivity, GDP, minimum wage, aging population, falling birth rates, benefit claims, training, health & safety, skin colour, ethnicity, religious beliefs, Brexit, Nigel Farage wearing a suit 'n tie - and all the other things you like to witter on about - are all irrelevant! You can 'fix' all of the above - put Farage in an 80s shell suite if you like - and it still won't change the fact that we simply don't have the necessary infrastructure to support numbers equating to the city the size of Dublin or Bristol arriving on our shores year on year. Please tell me you understand and accept this very simple point. And if you don't accept it, kindly explain how the existing infrastructure is able to support such large numbers and is sustainable year on year.
Tim.
 
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timsk said:
:rolleyes:
Oh dear oh dear At'. If you've read my posts, you'd know the answer to this question.

All I'm saying - for the umpteenth time - is that those numbers are unsustainable. It's just plain common sense. Government policy, budgets, inflation, productivity, GDP, minimum wage, aging population, falling birth rates, benefit claims, training, health & safety, skin colour, ethnicity, religious beliefs, Brexit, Nigel Farage wearing a suit 'n tie - and all the other things you like to witter on about - are all irrelevant! You can 'fix' all of the above - put Farage in an 80s shell suite if you like - and it still won't change the fact that we simply don't have the necessary infrastructure to support numbers equating to the city the size of Dublin or Bristol arriving on our shores year on year. Please tell me you understand and accept this very simple point. And if you don't accept it, kindly explain how the existing infrastructure is able to support such large numbers and is sustainable year on year.
Tim.
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My point is that illegal migration is a very small and insignificant number not the size of Bristol.

More recently university research and foreign applications are also falling.

You are being told lies on what the illegal migrant numbers are for the desperate refugees risking life crossing the Channel are insignificantly low for an economy like the UK.

I hear migrants in all kinds of government building constructions. In Richmond they are laying in new gas pipes and the guys doing the donkey ground work are mostly foreign aliens. The guys doing plumbing; some are English and quite a few Polish. Managers and supervisors are almost always English. These are government contracts sub-contracted out to about 4 different companies all employing foreign labour. I ask my self where are the English workers.

Same for roofers and peeps doing guttering work. Brickwork, laying slabs. The MPs and Lords sit on these boards and pass contracts amongst them selves for mililons employing foreign cheap labour. I'd doubt quite a few companies even show migrants on their books thus evade paying Employers NI.

It's all a big freaking scam. It's how the economy ticks. That's why the black economy off the books is so big and vibrant.

Politicians come up with fancy words to get votes the about quarter of the British population falls for it. Business as usual.

Those migrants are labourers all working hard for minimum wage paying rent, taxes and eating cost effective food by cooking their own and not drinking their wages and pissing it away but saving it. I've been to Manchester, Salford and Oldham a few times now as my daughter is up there. Migrants and the Chinese all doing well. Don't see them lying around streets and parks with beer cans in their hands. How's that so? I appreciate I am stereo typing but this picture is not uncommon in other towns I visit. Life goes on and the level of economic activity buildign and progress is all proportional.

I find it incredible that our indegenous young workers can't find work and on the dole and benefits when these migrants with their broken English can.

I'm also astonished people are quite aware our infrastructure is insufficient with exhorbitant pricing but no one seems to think investing is an option or a good idea. Just that if it wasn't for those 30,000 illegal migrants we'd all be in a much happier place. Crazy!


I think I've said enough. I'm going to sign off now, as you said we are just going round in circle... (y)
 
Atilla said:
I'm also astonished people are quite aware our infrastructure is insufficient with exhorbitant pricing but no one seems to think investing is an option or a good idea.
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At',
Investing in infrastructure is an excellent idea but, it's not happening is it? That's the point! I have my views as to why it's not happening and, doubtless, you have yours. Who knows, they may be the same. What matters is that you agree - that for whatever reason - the investment's not there. Ergo, the infrastructure's not there either. Hence, mass uncontrolled immigration is unsustainable. It really is that simple, nothing complicated or conspiratorial about it at all. As for the division of legal and illegal migrants - that's totally irrelevant. Why? Because regardless of how migrants get here, they're all people who need to eat, sleep, poo, wash, heat themselves, travel and see a doctor etc., etc. So, it's the total numbers that matter - not how they get here, which are legal or illegal, the colour of their skin or their religious beliefs etc. Hell, they could all be white, middle class, English speaking atheists from the U.S., Canada and Australia - the fundamental problem would remain the same and I'd make the exact same point.
Atilla said:
Just that if it wasn't for those 30,000 illegal migrants we'd all be in a much happier place. Crazy!
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I've never said that, implied it or, even, thought it.

You're exactly like c_v is with Putin. His hate for him and desire to see his downfall is so great that it trumps all else. Consequently, he's completely unable to look at the Ukraine war objectively. He knows full well that Biden is corrupt, that U.S. foreign policy is largely dictated by the Military Industrial Complex, that the war has nothing to do with defending Ukrainian freedom and democracy and everything to do with U.S. hegemony. But, to his mind, the end justifies the means, to the extent that he's quite prepared to overlook all of that (and much else besides) - so long as Putin is gone. It's irrational, will solve nothing and may well make a bad situation worse. But he doesn't care about any of that; all that matters to him is that Putin is history.

You're the same on immigration: you think it's all about the illegal small boats and that's all that anyone who questions the wisdom of mass uncontrolled immigration cares about. If you only take away one thing from this exchange, then please let it be this: the left wing globalist politicians and MSM want you to think that and for you to paint the likes of me as 'far right' racists who hate immigrants. Nothing could be further from the truth; I'm none of those things, nor are most of the millions of people up and down the U.K. who feel as I do. Hell, along with the family and friends I've already told you about in an earlier post, the father of my (half) brother and sister (my late mum's first husband), was a refugee who fled the 1917 Russian revolution. Yeah, really!
Atilla said:
I think I've said enough. I'm going to sign off now, as you said we are just going round in circle... (y)
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Yes, agreed.
Tim.
 
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