UK Politics

[Atilla]

Boris Johnson resigns: Five things that led to the PM's downfall

Less than three years after a thumping election win, the PM is resigning. How did it come to this?

www.bbc.co.uk

Surprised it's only five.

I'd add this one to the list as well.

1922 Committee chairmanship: Sir Graham Brady faces challenge amid claims Boris Johnson wants to oust him

The chairman of "the '22", the shop steward of Conservative backbenchers, is one of the most influential positions in the Tory party, with the power to make or break ministerial careers and even topple prime ministers.

news.sky.com

 

[tomorton]

You are right in that Labour was always anti-EU and Conservatives pro-EU back in the 70s and 80s until Thatcher initiated the clawback of some UK contributions, which set off the EU-sceptics in the party.


However, the change in shift for Corbyn is more to do with EU labour laws supporting worker rights than a mad desire for power.

I also believe Corbyn is a far more principled mad; rightly or wrongly and stands by them whether they cost him votes or not.

As we all know, his views have cost him votes and he is now an independent.

The Conservatives played the game of being pro-EU as long as possible and as long as it was electorally viable for them, electorally difficult for Labour and economically advantageous to the UK. Call that opportunism if you like, or call it realism.

I am sure the Conservatives were neither for nor against EU membership on principle, though they were pro-EU on economic grounds. Impossible to deny that the UK did fine out of EU membership economically. Which makes Jeremy Corbyn's anti-EU position since the 70's hard to respect.

What drove Brexit was the electorate's desire for sovereignty - sovereignty over UK laws, institutions and borders.

As far as principles are concerned, Corbyn has only one, which is the establishment of a Marxist government in Britain. I am sure he remains very proud of that aspiration, although I regard it as beneath contempt.

 

[Atilla]

The Conservatives played the game of being pro-EU as long as possible and as long as it was electorally viable for them, electorally difficult for Labour and economically advantageous to the UK. Call that opportunism if you like, or call it realism.

I am sure the Conservatives were neither for nor against EU membership on principle, though they were pro-EU on economic grounds. Impossible to deny that the UK did fine out of EU membership economically. Which makes Jeremy Corbyn's anti-EU position since the 70's hard to respect.

What drove Brexit was the electorate's desire for sovereignty - sovereignty over UK laws, institutions and borders.

As far as principles are concerned, Corbyn has only one, which is the establishment of a Marxist government in Britain. I am sure he remains very proud of that aspiration, although I regard it as beneath contempt.

As soon as Marxism is raised I'm thinking that thought process and belief system is long gone and dead. Buried by the USSR and China.

The question is one of policy around nationalisation of some industries, distribution of income and social policies. I do agree Corbyn and Milliband were off their rockers. Never thought they'd get elected either.

Marxism is long gone, dead and buried. Raising that corpse is just fear-mongering.

 

[tomorton]

As soon as Marxism is raised I'm thinking that thought process and belief system is long gone and dead. Buried by the USSR and China.

The question is one of policy around nationalisation of some industries, distribution of income and social policies. I do agree Corbyn and Milliband were off their rockers. Never thought they'd get elected either.

Marxism is long gone, dead and buried. Raising that corpse is just fear-mongering.

All leftists are inspired at the root by Marx. Some call themselves communists, some socialists: these distinctions are false. The core beliefs and values of all are, if not Marxist, at least Marxian.

I am happy to raise a level of fear of these individuals gaining power as their ideology is fundamentally anti-democratic, economically illiterate and historically universally unsuccessful. Of course, using the word "unsuccessful" to describe the regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Mugabe and Kim Jong-un is maybe too charitable: maybe "vile" would be better.

I would add Hitler and Mussolini to the list but I fear some readers would have a heart attack.

 

[NVP]

thought i would lower the tone ......

 

[tomorton]

He's finally leaving..... eventually......

 

[Atilla]

All leftists are inspired at the root by Marx. Some call themselves communists, some socialists: these distinctions are false. The core beliefs and values of all are, if not Marxist, at least Marxian.

I am happy to raise a level of fear of these individuals gaining power as their ideology is fundamentally anti-democratic, economically illiterate and historically universally unsuccessful. Of course, using the word "unsuccessful" to describe the regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Mugabe and Kim Jong-un is maybe too charitable: maybe "vile" would be better.

I would add Hitler and Mussolini to the list but I fear some readers would have a heart attack.

Marx's theory was limited and predictions have failed to materialise.

It needs to be put in context too. During the Feudal and Victorian periods yes it had much to contribute and indeed did so.

However, in our modern day most sensible peeps would change the emphasis on equality to what is equitable and efficient.

 

[Atilla]

Really getting tired of hearing BJ's biggest mandate since 80s.

FGS it was against Corbyn with UKIP gone and LibDems off radar. It's purely opportunism and good fortune he got where he did.

Boris is more of a celebrity being on TV and in newspapers, had a high profile. The bumbling affable baffoon who people think knows what he's talking about, speaking with an air of privilege and twangy voice.

Common peeps don't vote for policies they vote for celebrities.

The other employed part of the electorate, thinks a vote for the conservatives is a vote for low tax and poor management of public services they don't have to use.

So glad to see the back of him. What a load of tripe and tosh from a useless twit who is not fit for the job.

 

[counter_violent]

Really getting tired of hearing BJ's biggest mandate since 80s.

FGS it was against Corbyn with UKIP gone and LibDems off radar. It's purely opportunism and good fortune he got where he did.

Boris is more of a celebrity being on TV and people's awareness and in newspapers. The bumbling affable baffoon who people think knows what he's talking about, speaking with an air of privilege and twangy voice.

Common peeps don't vote for policies they vote for celebrities.

The other employed rich froth vote conservative because they equate the Tories with low tax and poor management of public services they don't have to use.

So glad to see the back of him. What a load of tripe and tosh from a useless twit not fit for the job.

NF by withdrawing from the election allowed BOJO free run, which finally decided the issue once and for all.

So, once again, we can thank NF for delivering Brexit.

Lib Dums collapsed and ran away.
Labour tried playing both sides and failed miserably.

Tories, natural party of Govt, which I keep telling you but you keep ignoring..

Right, time for a new leader.

 

[Atilla]

 

[tomorton]

Yesterday's GBP/USD rally from mid-morning appears to have been a relief rally - relief that the government paralysis brought down by Johnson's behaviour is now foreseeably ending, plus this will probably be achieved without the risk of a General Election.

If the Conservatives continue to argue daily whether Johnson should remain in No.10, or they take many weeks to appoint a permanent successor this bullish momentum will just dribble away. It also raises the possibility that Starmer will succeed in a vote of no confidence in the House and bring forward a GE. This will cause the pound to drop like a stone.

I wonder if there is anything in the Conservative party rules that disqualifies Johnson from standing for election as new leader?

 

[timsk]

There's no rant quite like a Jonathan Pie rant! Enjoy . . .

 

[Atilla]

Yesterday's GBP/USD rally from mid-morning appears to have been a relief rally - relief that the government paralysis brought down by Johnson's behaviour is now foreseeably ending, plus this will probably be achieved without the risk of a General Election.

If the Conservatives continue to argue daily whether Johnson should remain in No.10, or they take many weeks to appoint a permanent successor this bullish momentum will just dribble away. It also raises the possibility that Starmer will succeed in a vote of no confidence in the House and bring forward a GE. This will cause the pound to drop like a stone.

I wonder if there is anything in the Conservative party rules that disqualifies Johnson from standing for election as new leader?

Agree with points on sterling, however, I feel it is much worse than just the elections imo.

Before UK joined the EEC, it was losing competitiveness and becoming sick man of Europe with the pound dropping.

I fear we will have that repeat run of history as the pound will come under pressure, because of BoP deficit coupled with inflation, lack of growth and a continued fall in productivity.

That keyword "productivity" will be eroded by wage inflation. Labour will be paid higher wages for reduced output.

Most opinion is that UK's position has diminished on the international stage as a consequence of Brexit and Tories scandalous and corrupt practices of giving £bn contracts to friends and family.

I fear Labour and other parties will repeat those actions by awarding contracts to vested interests. We are fast on the way to becoming a banana republic. Standards have fallen considerably and will continue to do so as demanded by peeps for reduced taxation and smaller government.

CV says it's time for British politicians to step up now EU can't be blamed but as demonstrated by our Brexiteers, UK is in the hands of inept numpties.

I fear sterling will continue to come under increased selling pressure. I have 1.15 - 1.12 pencilled in for cable.

 

[Inquisitor]

Before UK joined the EEC, it was losing competitiveness and becoming sick man of Europe with the pound dropping.
I fear we will have that repeat run of history as the pound will come under pressure, because of BoP deficit coupled with inflation, lack of growth and a continued fall in productivity.

This simply doesn't stack up with what is happening in the currency markets. The Euro is at its lowest level against the USD in almost its entire history. The GBP in comparison is doing much better and is doing well against the Euro.

How can this be the case if Brexit has made the UK less competitive? If the UK had joined the Euro they would also be getting less USD than they are now by sticking with the GBP.

If being in the EU is so fantastic how is it even remotely possible that investment is flooding out of the EU and into USD?

I am sure you will come up with some cleverly put togther reason why what you say is correct but in reality the markets "ARE" the measure of how the EU is viewed and how being in the EU is not the great trading block and institution that you make it out to be.

 

[tomorton]

Agree with points on sterling, however, I feel it is much worse than just the elections imo.

Before UK joined the EEC, it was losing competitiveness and becoming sick man of Europe with the pound dropping.

I fear we will have that repeat run of history as the pound will come under pressure, because of BoP deficit coupled with inflation, lack of growth and a continued fall in productivity.

That keyword "productivity" will be eroded by wage inflation. Labour will be paid higher wages for reduced output.

Most opinion is that UK's position has diminished on the international stage as a consequence of Brexit and Tories scandalous and corrupt practices of giving £bn contracts to friends and family.

I fear Labour and other parties will repeat those actions by awarding contracts to vested interests. We are fast on the way to becoming a banana republic. Standards have fallen considerably and will continue to do so as demanded by peeps for reduced taxation and smaller government.

CV says it's time for British politicians to step up now EU can't be blamed but as demonstrated by our Brexiteers, UK is in the hands of inept numpties.

I fear sterling will continue to come under increased selling pressure. I have 1.15 - 1.12 pencilled in for cable.

I agree with all this though I am optimistic about GBP's long-term strength - as long as we have a succession of Conservative governments over an extended period. I always thought that Brexit would cause immediate and short-term damage to the economy, but that was based on how well the economy was doing until 2016, not on the future potential for the UK.

Hard to regard Johnson's administration as conservative, on the evidence of policies. It seems closer to being merely a fiefdom run for his personal benefit at any expense.

The long-term outlook for the EUR is definitely poor. Its been a long time now but a couple of years back during the PIGS financial crisis I was suggesting the eurozone would split itself in two - basically between northern EUR economies and southern EUR economies. The northern euro will become known as the Neuro....... The southern euro will be called the Zero.

 

[Atilla]

This simply doesn't stack up with what is happening in the currency markets. The Euro is at its lowest level against the USD in almost its entire history. The GBP in comparison is doing much better and is doing well against the Euro.

How can this be the case if Brexit has made the UK less competitive? If the UK had joined the Euro they would also be getting less USD than they are now by sticking with the GBP.

If being in the EU is so fantastic how is it even remotely possible that investment is flooding out of the EU and into USD?

I am sure you will come up with some cleverly put togther reason why what you say is correct but in reality the markets "ARE" the measure of how the EU is viewed and how being in the EU is not the great trading block and institution that you make it out to be.

Euro was almost on par with USD during the banking crises. So it might well go back to 1.05's again, that's not unheard of yes.

The difference in the strength of GBP over EUR at present can be accounted for by central banks. US and UK have a more aggressive rate hike preference by the FED and BoE speeches than that of ECB who seems reluctant to raise rates.

There is the Ukraine war as well and Germany's Scholz not quite a leader but more of American's lapdog following their instructions and lust for war. Gas and Oil sanctions coupled with food all hurting the Eurozone. Having a war in your back yard is not good for business.

 

[Atilla]

I agree with all this though I am optimistic about GBP's long-term strength - as long as we have a succession of Conservative governments over an extended period. I always thought that Brexit would cause immediate and short-term damage to the economy, but that was based on how well the economy was doing until 2016, not on the future potential for the UK.

Hard to regard Johnson's administration as conservative, on the evidence of policies. It seems closer to being merely a fiefdom run for his personal benefit at any expense.

The long-term outlook for the EUR is definitely poor. Its been a long time now but a couple of years back during the PIGS financial crisis I was suggesting the eurozone would split itself in two - basically between northern EUR economies and southern EUR economies. The northern euro will become known as the Neuro....... The southern euro will be called the Zero.

I like your viewpoint on the split EU. Made me laugh. Zore might be better than Zero. Sounds betta. Waddayatink?

I'm also going off EU and Germany over their stance in the Ukraine war. I feel they have let the continent down by following US and UK in the fruitless escalation of the war at cost to them selves.

We should all be looking to bring about peace and de-escalate. It really is a farce, stupid, dum US sh!t stirring.

 

[alan5616]

Front page of today's Scottish daily

 

[tomorton]

I like your viewpoint on the split EU. Made me laugh. Zore might be better than Zero. Sounds betta. Waddayatink?

I'm also going off EU and Germany over their stance in the Ukraine war. I feel they have let the continent down by following US and UK in the fruitless escalation of the war at cost to them selves.

We should all be looking to bring about peace and de-escalate. It really is a farce, stupid, dum US sh!t stirring.

I'm very happy that Russia has got itself into a mess. I hope that Putin and his cabal of supporters lose all credibility within the country and are deposed and dealt with according to the rule of law. They are kleptocratic gangsters after all.

The west's response to the Ukraine war is not a US initiative, it is a broad coalition of support coordinated by the United Nations. It should be no surprise that the US and the UK are on the same side as each other and the UN, and that Putin's autocracy is on the other side. Whereas the war is not ours to fight, nor the UN's, we would be failing in our own commitments to democratic principles if we did not support Ukraine in its bid for survival and hopefully development into a much more democratic nation state than the poor effort they have achieved so far.

The future global implications of Russian military annexation of a neighbouring sovereign state would be horrendous.

But what would you prefer the outcome in Ukraine to be?

 

[timsk]

Neil Oliver sums up to perfection exactly how I feel about U.K. politics and politicians. Brilliant, as always. Enjoy. . .