UK Politics

alan5616 said:
It's the FPTP system which prevents democracy. At present, the ruling party (Conservatives) have an 80 seat majority yet, only received 43% of the total votes cast.
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It sounds ever more that you are against democracy or have you forgotten the referendum in 2011 where there was a democratic vote for introducing a form of PR?

The democratic result was to reject it and keep the FPTP voting system and what you are saying is that the electorate got it wrong and that you (in a minority) are right and as such it should be implemented anyway. FPTP generally makes for strong government whether left of right and what you see in almost all PR systems is indecisiveness and (more of a concern) having to cater for extremists as PR means that they have to be represented.

It is no accident that in the 1930s when Europe was heading towards fascism and communism that the UK didn't as it is set up on an institutional basis to make this almost impossible. What the UK has may not be ideal but it is better than many of the alternatives out there.

It will be very interesting to see what happens at the next election which I am convinced will be at least a coalition if not a non Tory government. People only ever vote on how they feel economically and we can see that in recent history. When Blair joined GWB on invading Iraq in 2003 and everyone was saying Labour would lose the election over it, well they didn't and won in 2005. Why? because in reality no one cared and people were feeling economically quite good.

What happened though when the 2008 financial crisis hit? People started to feel worse off and immediately voted Labour out in 2010. What is going to happen between now and the election in 2024? People are going to feel the worst they have economically probably in living memory and there is no way the Tories can turn that around in under 2 years. That and the fact that the Tory manifesto promises were all broken so no one will trust any pledges they make at the next election.

So when people feel as bad as they will because they cannot heat the house or cannot eat what they would like to or find that their mortgage payments have rocketted as interest rates are going up then they will think they have nothing to lose by voting out the Tories. I am sure there will be plenty of naysayers on this view but just look at the UK history and you will find that this is commonplace and history will repeat itself.
 
Thanks for this Inquisitor.

Its well established that the recent personal experience of the economy drives voter decisions.

So who benefits?

In theory, in hard times under a Conservative administration it would be the opposition 100%. But Labour is not so well trusted to run the national economy. This undermines the swing they could have expected, driving anti-Conservative voters towards the LibDems and single-issue parties.

So what might Labour be doing to counter that perception and affect voting patterns?

Obviously Option 1 is coalition with the lesser opposition parties. But its hard to see the LibDems falling for that again after the Clegg Massacre. And is Labour sufficiently green for the Greens to make an alliance? I suspect nobody's plans will ever be green enough for the Greens.

Option 2 is drive the average voter to respond to characteristics which even an economically benevolent administration cannot readily alter - class, wealth, race, educational attainment, age, geographical origins, religion, culture, language, employed status, etc. This option is highly divisive and destructive of the society in which we live. Yet isn't that the sort of politics we are increasingly seeing?
 
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Damn it I'm trapped. I am dedicated to keeping communists out of power in the UK. This means I am cursed to always vote for the likes of Boris Johnson.
 
COMMUNISTS???

Realy? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Which era are you actually from Mr T?

Even Russia and China are capitalists these days...

I think you need to take the dog for a walk. (y):)(y)


PS... Vote LibDem ;)
 
Atilla said:
COMMUNISTS???

Realy? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Which era are you actually from Mr T?

Even Russia and China are capitalists these days...

I think you need to take the dog for a walk. (y):)(y)


PS... Vote LibDem ;)
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The LibDems are communists in pullovers. They don't seem to have a political ideology but they are certainly not pro- free market capitalism, low taxation and the "small state", which places them firmly left of centre.

They have limited electoral appeal because of their beige politics and will not command a parliamentary majority in the foreseeable future.

Meantime, Starmer is a Marxist party leader, as was Corbyn, as was Miliband, as was Brown.
 
Whatever your political persuasion, it it pretty clear that the UK is heading for a Lib-Lab coalition at the next general election if Johnson is still leading the Tories.

Every lifelong Tory voter I have come across has said they will vote against them unless he is removed. Couple that with a huge number of new voters who have only ever known Tory government and that they will feel worse off than they ever have means that there is a high probability the government will be voted out.

The cost of living crisis is not going to be resolved by the next election and that in itself will have a huge impact on the election result in my view.
 
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www.bbc.co.uk

Chris Pincher suspended as Tory MP after groping allegation

The former deputy chief whip will no longer sit as a Tory MP, after allegations he groped two men.
www.bbc.co.uk

I'm surprised this bottom pincher has got away with it for so long. He apparently started his bottom pinching career as early as 2019. That is a lot bottom pinching before MP's say enough is enough.

Moreover, I wonder whether this is more about getting Boris out then this smarty pants who thinks Parliament is a sex club.

Boris as well as a being a premier league lier has turned Parliament in to a zoo with a bunch of drinking, boozing, sex pests.


Prize value though Boris did bring you Brexit. What an achievement. Bless his cotton socks. He will be remembered. This ass-wipe sadly won't when he gets flushed down the loo, the POS that he is.
 
Look I knew Boris would be bad, but I didn't think he would be this bad. You can't blame me. Anyway my MP is Labour again so Boris didn't even get a vote from me in 2019.

And if anyone asks awkward questions about this I shall simply say I don't remember.
 
tomorton said:
The LibDems are communists in pullovers. They don't seem to have a political ideology but they are certainly not pro- free market capitalism, low taxation and the "small state", which places them firmly left of centre.

They have limited electoral appeal because of their beige politics and will not command a parliamentary majority in the foreseeable future.

Meantime, Starmer is a Marxist party leader, as was Corbyn, as was Miliband, as was Brown.
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I think you need to look at your political definitions. To describe Starmer, Miliband and Brown as Marxists is laughable nonsense.
 
alan5616 said:
I think you need to look at your political definitions. To describe Starmer, Miliband and Brown as Marxists is laughable nonsense.
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I wish it was a joke.

He wrote in Socialist Lawyer in 2021 that Marx was right in saying it was pointless to believe a change of society could only be achieved by arguing about fundamental rights. Marx's belief was of course in revolutionary change of the structure of society, not in its democratic development and future governance.

In a 2020 interview for the Guardian he stated he is a Socialist and argued in favour of common ownership (of the means of production) and others of its Marxian outcomes.

He has argued for the abolition of the Monarchy and for "participatory socialism based on democratic planning".

Surely his given name is recognisable?

etc. etc.

What conclusions concerning his core political beliefs can be drawn?

The ideals and policies of Miliband and Brown speak for themselves. I would have thought they would be proud to be associated with Marx. Their policies and his theories do not conflict.
 
I'm nearly 80 years of age and there have been 15 PMs in my lifetime. Johnson is at the very bottom of the pile. An amoral, pathological liar without a shred of integrity. I've just heard that Nadine Dorries is going to be Chancellor of the Exchequer, Health Minister as well as Culture Secretary😂
 
Start checking the odds.

Sunak done himself no harm in the leadership race that will surely come, by quitting the exchequer.

I always thought he was a good choice for chancellor. Except, he was railroaded and diverted off course from day one.
If he can toughen up and stand his ground, might be an excellent choice as the new leader.
 
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How long can Johnson hold on? Are we talking days or hours?

I forecast on ConservativeHome that he would be resigning on the first day back at No.10 after the New Year holiday in 2020. Then covid hit and that bet was off.

At least, whatever happens and whoever wins, we end up with a better Conservative Prime Minister. And the sooner the better.
 
tomorton said:
How long can Johnson hold on? Are we talking days or hours?

I forecast on ConservativeHome that he would be resigning on the first day back at No.10 after the New Year holiday in 2020. Then covid hit and that bet was off.

At least, whatever happens and whoever wins, we end up with a better Conservative Prime Minister. And the sooner the better.
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Boris is just Boris and I suppose the outcome was inevitable. Thing is, there is an upside if he does get ousted. We will be rid of that goddam awful wife he took on board.

Cummings told us all about her antics after his own bust up.

Reminds me of another high profile chap, Harry Hewitt What's,he,called, and the chaos that ensued when she arrived on the scene.
 
tomorton said:
If and when Boris goes, who will step into No.10?
Gove?
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Good lord no.
Has to be Sunak.

What this country needs is intelligence at the top and a team behind them who are in position on merit.
There has been far too much attention paid to ensuring that minorities and deviants get their share of the limelight. All that nonsense must end pronto. There's a serious job to be done and little time left to do it.

Imagine this.

Sunak PM and Reece Mogg.
Dream team.

Could even bring back Cummings to sort out the civil service.
 
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