Trump Presidency and the Consequences

[piphoe]

So can you remind me again what US warships doing in Black Sea again please?

why shouldn't "a" US "warship" be in the black sea?

a russian cruiser 12 miles off Delaware coast.

every nation has a World interest in crusing the high sea.

 

[dbphoenix]

I'm not going to get into a prolonged discussion about deterrence and not being strong enough to dissuade peace loving Putin's invasion of Crimea and Ukraine and his pressure on the Baltic states and others. Obama created the openings for Putin with his withdrawal from the world and his failed re-focus on the Pacific Rim. Obama was a charming but useless President, only surpassed in ineptitude by the peanut farmer.
International bullies don't pick on people who are strong. Yes, I know the US has made many bad mistakes, many indefensible, but I'd rather live in the US than in any other country except England. And certainly not in Russia !
Who is a threat to our freedom? Not the US !
Strength deters aggression. That's not war mongering, that's plain common sense.
And some of us do think, actually.
Though we might not agree, it's safe to do so, unlike in Russia, China and many other places.
I just wish they hadn't picked Trump 🙁 though I admit Hillary wasn't the best of candidates 🙁

Given your age, I'm surprised that you would take this position re deterrence. It's long been established that we could if we so chose to turn the planet into a cinder, and every country knows that, esp Russia. As for Ukraine and Crimea, it's up to Western Europe to assume responsibility for its Eastern border, something they've been reluctant to do, perhaps because they depend so much on Russia for oil and gas. Declining to prompt Russia into going to war was wise, particularly given the interior conflicts in Ukraine. We gave it our best shot during the Orange Revolution (which took place during the Bush administration), but that didn't have a lasting effect.

The US has tried and largely succeeded for fifty years to bring nuclear proliferation under control. But these controls will not last forever. If we can't learn to live together before the suitcase bomb becomes commonplace, then we pretty much deserve whatever we get. And childish threats from our "president" to bomb the hell out of whoever pisses us off is not going to help matters.

 

[Atilla]

why shouldn't "a" US warship be in the black sea?

Do you see any Russian warships loitering for weeks in the Gulf of Mexico?

 

[Atilla]

why shouldn't "a" US "warship" be in the black sea?

a russian cruiser 12 miles off Delaware coast.

every nation has a World interest in crusing the high sea.

I think you'll find that's just tit for tat.

Much like in the cold war days of testing air defences and scrambling jets.

Point is there is no need now. They are simply beating their chests to get funding for military weapons of no productive use.

 

[piphoe]

Do you see any Russian warships loitering for weeks in the Gulf of Mexico?

What is your point? Obviously not the mere presence of a ship but the time frame?

a week maybe 10 days is ok but two weeks come on thats nefarious? 😉

 

[Atilla]

What is your point? Obviously not the mere presence of a ship but the time frame?

Point is US is the bully boy.

If it doesn't get its way it starts interfering in other states affairs, destablising countries like Iraq and Syria and soon it will Iran.

Implement lots of little terrorist cells and then create some placebo type enemy of no significant threat to justify its huge spending and military dominance.

First it was communism and fighting geurrilla's, then it was muslims terrorists and now it needs a new enemy as there are no threats.

Main threat is probably Korea which it does absolute FA about because it knows the little short **** is unstable and lets China take care of it.

Even India and Pakistan are well behaved despite the actions of some stupid terrorist cells.

US needs a new bogey man. It needs its proxy wars to justify humangous spending on weapons killing innocent peoples.


As mentioned before, however, we now have economic powers not military.

Challenges to the world are from capitalism, automation and inequitable distribution of wealth?


Open your heart and think about what are the real threats in your life are right now?

 

[piphoe]

Point is US is the bully boy.

If it doesn't get its way it starts interfering in other states affairs, destablising countries like Iraq and Syria and soon it will Iran.

Implement lots of little terrorist cells and then create some placebo type enemy of no significant threat to justify its huge spending and military dominance.

First it was communism and fighting geurrilla's, then it was muslims terrorists and now it needs a new enemy as there are no threats.

Main threat is probably Korea which it does absolute FA about because it knows the little short **** is unstable and lets China take care of it.

Even India and Pakistan are well behaved despite the actions of some stupid terrorist cells.

US needs a new bogey man. It needs its proxy wars to justify humangous spending on weapons killing innocent peoples.


As mentioned before, however, we now have economic powers not military.

Challenges to the world are from capitalism, automation and inequitable distribution of wealth?


Open your heart and think about what are the real threats in your life are right now?

A russian warship was just little off 12 miles from US coast. in international water every right to be there. (and our every right to keep an eye on those ruskie basterds!)Your impassioned argument didn't address the question...each nation has a World interest, and the right to sail the high seas.

As you may learn. I do Not get side tracked by tangent!

 

[dbphoenix]

Point is US is the bully boy.

If it doesn't get its way it starts interfering in other states affairs, destablising countries like Iraq and Syria and soon it will Iran.

OTOH, if the Allies hadn't depended so heavily on the US for aid during and after WW2, particularly the UK, France, China, and Russia, I wonder if the US would have assumed the role of "bully" so readily.

I agree that war has become a business. Eisenhower warned of that in the 50s. But many other countries have been willing participants in the evolution of this situation.

 

[Atilla]

I always wondered and still wonder why the US which is the most advanced country in the world, in terms of her economic and military might, with all the advanced technology, space supremacy, with a nuclear arsenal and global wealth, land mass, favourable climate and agriculture, one of the few countries independent in fuel, energy and food feels sooooo vulnerable???

I've heard it here and on TV where an average male or female talks about US being weakened?


Are you guys for real?


What scares me, is what is it that you want to do that you can't do now already?


As someone who grew up watching Champion the Wonder Horse, Lassie, Little House on the Prairie, The Waltons, The Bionic Man etc etc etc., I have great fond memories of the Great US of A.

When I visited and spent some time over there in the 90s, I loved the place, the people and fantastic customer service always with a smile.

Now I see the US turning into something really horrible and nasty. Vile disgusting President, half the population loving him for those reasons, an isolationist America having led globalisation as well as aggressive foreign policy now playing the victim.


I'm really losing the affection I had for America. I find listening to Trump torturous as he comes across as stupid, limited in vocabulary and so corrosive with his vision and tough talk. I usually, turn off and wait for someone else to summarise his amazing wonderful fantastic BS.


Very sad to see US going down this route. Very very sad. 🙁

 

[dbphoenix]

Difficult to explain without writing a book. The economy has not been good for most people ever since 2007. This has created a nostalgia for how things "used to be", and given that the emphasis has been on attaching blame to anyone other than those who are responsible for the fact that so many people have been doing so poorly, anyone who promises a return to the good old days is naturally favored by certain kinds of people.

The US has always been racist and xenophobic. White supremacy has always been there but has rarely manifested itself as clearly as it has in the past few years. The difference is that people who hold these beliefs now have permission to express themselves without fear of retribution. There has always been some of that ever since the internet gained traction in the late 90s, but these people are far more open about their prejudices now. This became particularly clear during the campaigns.

There are many reasons for this fear of vulnerability, and this fear makes the fearful an easy mark for demagogues. It's possible to assuage that fear, but it won't be done by beating the rest of the world to a pulp.

 

[sminicooper]

I always wondered and still wonder why the US which is the most advanced country in the world, in terms of her economic and military might, with all the advanced technology, space supremacy, with a nuclear arsenal and global wealth, land mass, favourable climate and agriculture, one of the few countries independent in fuel, energy and food feels sooooo vulnerable???

I've heard it here and on TV where an average male or female talks about US being weakened?


Are you guys for real?


What scares me, is what is it that you want to do that you can't do now already?


As someone who grew up watching Champion the Wonder Horse, Lassie, Little House on the Prairie, The Waltons, The Bionic Man etc etc etc., I have great fond memories of the Great US of A.

When I visited and spent some time over there in the 90s, I loved the place, the people and fantastic customer service always with a smile.

Now I see the US turning into something really horrible and nasty. Vile disgusting President, half the population loving him for those reasons, an isolationist America having led globalisation as well as aggressive foreign policy now playing the victim.


I'm really losing the affection I had for America. I find listening to Trump torturous as he comes across as stupid, limited in vocabulary and so corrosive with his vision and tough talk. I usually, turn off and wait for someone else to summarise his amazing wonderful fantastic BS.


Very sad to see US going down this route. Very very sad. 🙁

Good points. My suspicion is that it's akin to something we have in the UK also: a feeling by a sizeable chunk of the population that they have been left behind. Whether that's due to the rise of technology, careless politicians, or inherent human selfishness I don't know. But it sure is a problem.

 

[counter_violent]

Good points. My suspicion is that it's akin to something we have in the UK also: a feeling by a sizeable chunk of the population that they have been left behind. Whether that's due to the rise of technology, careless politicians, or inherent human selfishness I don't know. But it sure is a problem.

It's a problem because it's real. Europe is also experiencing he same thing. Jobs moving out of higher cost to lower cost countries. It leaves folks with no prospects, sometimes for generations. Globalisation is a bonkers idea when the only Ones to benefit out of the arrangement are crony corporate capitalists.
Not to be confused with capitalism.

 

[Atilla]

Good points. My suspicion is that it's akin to something we have in the UK also: a feeling by a sizeable chunk of the population that they have been left behind. Whether that's due to the rise of technology, careless politicians, or inherent human selfishness I don't know. But it sure is a problem.

Somebody else made the same point and I can't remember who now (maybe John Major), for the first time in in two decades people will have seen their living standards fall.

In the previous 60 they rose.

Not fashionable to say so but capitalism with skewed distribution of wealth, increasing automation and technology skills gap has much to do with it.

As before, failure to identify root cause and fighting symptoms will lead to false solutions and exacerbation of real issue behind our true troubles.

Hence, spend more money on weapons, give more tax brakes to people who are already in work and rich and raise debt burden, undermining dollar standard.


Going to end in tears! 😢

 

[sminicooper]

It's a problem because it's real. Europe is also experiencing he same thing. Jobs moving out of higher cost to lower cost countries. It leaves folks with no prospects, sometimes for generations. Globalisation is a bonkers idea when the only Ones to benefit out of the arrangement are crony corporate capitalists.
Not to be confused with capitalism.

Agree. And I just wish that more people would NB your point about capitalism.

 

[dbphoenix]

THE RESISTANCE IS WORKING

WASHINGTON ― Back in mid-January, while Democrats were still recovering from the shock of the presidential election, 13 Democrats cast a dead-of-night vote that in previous years would have gone largely unnoticed.

It was against an amendment from Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) that directed a Senate committee to write legislation allowing for the re-importation of cheaper prescription drugs from Canada. Perhaps the most prominent of the baker’s dozen was Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), who just the day before had given controversial and impassioned testimony against Attorney General-nominee Jeff Sessions, at the time a fellow senator from Alabama.

The backlash caught Booker and his colleagues by surprise, and in many ways it presaged the furious energy that would soon be unleashed by progressives against both Trump and elected Democrats unwilling to stand up to him. It was a sign that things had changed in Washington and that standard operating Democratic procedure would no longer be acceptable.

The memo has been received. On Tuesday, Booker will join with Sanders at a press conference on Capitol Hill to announce his support for a drug re-importation bill.

 

[dbphoenix]

It's a problem because it's real. Europe is also experiencing he same thing. Jobs moving out of higher cost to lower cost countries. It leaves folks with no prospects, sometimes for generations. Globalisation is a bonkers idea when the only Ones to benefit out of the arrangement are crony corporate capitalists.
Not to be confused with capitalism.

And how exactly are you going to de-corporatize capitalism?

 

[counter_violent]

And how exactly are you going to de-corporatize capitalism?

By breaking the links they have with all the politicians. All of them in each others pockets. It's a great big stitch up where free market competition is regulated out. Barriers to entry.

Brexit breaks the link with overburdening EU.
Trumps election breaks the power of Washington politicians.

These events are not the destination, just the first steps.
People understand the issues more now and have found themselves a voice. It's a start, but a long way to go.

 

[dbphoenix]

By breaking the links they have with all the politicians. All of them in each others pockets. It's a great big stitch up where free market competition is regulated out. Barriers to entry.

Brexit breaks the link with overburdening EU.
Trumps election breaks the power of Washington politicians.

These events are not the destination, just the first steps.
People understand the issues more now and have found themselves a voice. It's a start, but a long way to go.

The "links they have with all the politicians" are irrelevant. Now that global trade is run by a relative handful of uber-corporations, what politicians do or don't do is of no importance whatsoever. Corporations will go where the low wages are and there's nothing to stop them from doing so. The corporations pull the strings, not the politicians, yet you continue to focus on the wrong elements. Breaking links with politicians will do nothing to de-corporatize capitalism.

It is a mystery to me why you advance these notions yet support those politicians and parties who are devoted to doing the exact opposite.

 

[Atilla]

By breaking the links they have with all the politicians. All of them in each others pockets. It's a great big stitch up where free market competition is regulated out. Barriers to entry.

Brexit breaks the link with overburdening EU.
Trumps election breaks the power of Washington politicians.

These events are not the destination, just the first steps.
People understand the issues more now and have found themselves a voice. It's a start, but a long way to go.

I agree with Db,

Farage has Aeron Banks supporting him. They all have some crony capitalist funding them with hidden, personal or some sort of interest.

As for Trump he is the biggest crony of them all. Look at the Environmental Agency, the Fed or the Food Agency, they are all full of Enterprise people from the industries they serve.

I fail to see how you can say one thing and blindly follow another.

You talk of public good and service whilst annihilate that which serves the public.

I'm all cool with small government foot print but public interest needs to be protected from big capitalist corporate enterprise, which without regulation and control always ultimately will lead to a monopolistic global multinational.


You are a paradox, with what you say and what you support? You sure you haven't dropped a screw or something. Worn out your threads perhaps :cheesy:

 

[dbphoenix]

This was published today, oddly enough, given its pertinence to the discussion earlier regarding our eagerness to go to war.

Why Americans Don't Win Wars Anymore

Some might remember that the Department of Defense used to be called the War Department.

Wonder if we'll revert to the original.