Trump Presidency and the Consequences

It’s over—for now. On Friday night, U.S. District Judge James Robart blocked the entirety of Donald Trump’s de facto Muslim ban from taking effect. His extraordinary ruling, which applies nationwide, froze all relevant provisions of the executive order, finding a substantial likelihood that the plaintiff will ultimately prevail in challenging the legality of the ban. That plaintiff was Washington state, which obtained standing to sue by demonstrating that the order would harm the state’s interests and residents. Just two weeks into Trump’s presidency, a progressive state has already succeeded in thwarting—at least temporarily—a huge part of his cruelest agenda.

Why did Robart rule so broadly? In his time on the bench, Robart has demonstrated a deep commitment to facts—the real ones, not the alternative ones—and the impact of the law on actual lives. A George W. Bush appointee, his jurisprudence shows no obvious partisanship, and his evenhanded courtroom demeanor suggests a commitment to fairness and impartiality. . . . His questioning was calm but vigorous and persistent. He asked Washington State Solicitor General Noah Purcell how the executive order could discriminate against Muslims when, on its face, it makes no mention of a particular religion. But he also asked Justice Department attorney Michelle Bennett how the order was rationally related to its stated goals. How many citizens of the seven Muslim-majority countries targeted by the ban, he asked Bennett, had been arrested on domestic terrorism charges since 9/11? She said she didn’t know—but he did. The answer, he said, was zero.

“You’re here arguing on behalf of someone who says we have to protect the U.S. from these individuals coming from these countries,” Robart said, “and there’s no support for that.”

When Robart issued his ruling, he took care to reiterate his commitment to both judicial restraint and independence. “Fundamental to the work of this court is a vigilant recognition that it is but one of three equal branches of our federal government,” he wrote.

The work of the court is not to create policy or judge the Wisdom of any particular policy promoted by the other two branches. That is the work of the legislative and executive branches and of the citizens of this country who ultimately exercise democratic control over those branches. The work of the Judiciary, and this court, is limited to ensuring that the actions taken by the other two branches comport with our country’s laws, and more importantly, our Constitution. …

[T]he court is mindful of the considerable impact its order may have on the parties before it, the executive branch of our government, and the country’s citizens and residents. The court concludes that the circumstances brought before it today are such that it must intervene to fulfill its constitutional role in our tripart government.​
Robart’s order did not elaborate extensively on the ban’s constitutional infirmities. But in ruling for Washington—and in blocking the entirety of the ban—he appeared to agree with the state’s claim that Trump’s executive order cannot be carried out in a constitutional manner. That’s critically important. Most other judges to consider the ban so far have found that it violates the due-process rights of immigrants already in the United States and those who were on their way into the country when the order was signed. Robart went far beyond that rather narrow question of law, finding that the entire order is likely unconstitutional, presumably because it is irrational and motivated by unlawful anti-Muslim animus.

That decision marks a huge step forward in the ongoing litigation over the executive order. Robart recognized that it is not just the ban’s immediate application to immigrants in transit that violates the Constitution; it is the ban as a whole. Even if the administration were to somehow execute the ban in a way that respects its targets’ due-process rights, it would still run afoul of basic equal protection and First Amendment principles. Simply put, there is no constitutional way to implement an unconstitutional order. That is the upshot of Robart’s ruling. And it is the argument that civil-liberties advocates must make as they continue to clobber the ban in court.

--Mark Joseph Stern
 
Does this mean that nobody however bad can be stopped from entering the USA ?
Perhaps only those without visas ?
It seems odd banning people from those 7 countries who as yet have had NO terrorist convictions in the US while Saudi Arabia is not on the list when 15 of the 19 involved in 911 came from there.
Then someone came up with the answer. The Trumps have no business interests in the 7 but have in Saudi. So it is obvious Tump is just trying to feather his own nest. What a fool to think nobody would notice.
 
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I think a MAJOR question will have to be answered soon by Trump & co. Will he accept the constitutionally correct ruling of the Courts or try and get rid of their interference. If the latter then we can expect a dictatorship in the USA. The very thing that many Americans fled Europe was to escape back in their parents/grandparents day.

No greatness in that sad direction. He even makes a mass murderer like Putin look better than he is .
 
Does this mean that nobody however bad can be stopped from entering the USA ?
Perhaps only those without visas ?
It seems odd banning people from those 7 countries who as yet have had NO terrorist convictions in the US while Saudi Arabia is not on the list when 15 of the 19 involved in 911 came from there.
Then someone came up with the answer. The Trumps have no business interests in the 7 but have in Saudi. So it is obvious Tump is just trying to feather his own nest. What a fool to think nobody would notice.

US already has a very strict visa policy! This is without doubt and most people already know.

https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/tourism-visitor/how-to-apply/

Most countries, one pays a small fee, fill in a basic form and that's it. It's a simple formality.

One should also remember with the most advanced and widely spread intelligence systems there are black and white lists of names on watch lists. Saudi Arabia as Boris Johnson commented is one of the main countries with links to terrorism. So when Trump and US mouths off Iran sponsors terrorism, I feel like laughing my head off with increduility. It's Saudi Arabia that does that.

Only last night there was a story on Radio 4 World Service. After black hawk down incident the Al-Shabaab unit flourished with money from Saudi Arabia, whilst US retreated. Al-Shabaab is aligned with Al-Qaida and filled the vacuum after the US retreated, as the article and BBC World Service explained.

Whilst the EU and UN supports peacekeeping and training Somali soldiers, there is war ongoing against Al-Shabaab dispersed groups.

To say Obama administration did nothing is incorrect. US has been very active, hitting Al-Shabaab fighers.

How has Trump protecting the US right now other than adding recruits to the Al-Shabaab front line? Unlike Al-Qaida, Al-Shabaab is limiting its activities confined to the region.

Really, just to make Trump, himself out to be tough cookie and bringing all this out in to the open is so much bull it beggars belief. If I was NSA chief I wouldn't be happy.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ack-hawk-down’-america-back-war-somalia-17930

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29026049
 
Another key observation here one should consider carefully.

Why the decision to implement Extreme Vetting on these high risk countries not applied quietely?

It could easilly have been done so. All new Visa could have been examined and with the exception of a few declined.

Current visa's allowed to stand and not renewed, with the exception of a few.

None would be wiser, system orderly, everything under the radar and security in control.


What was the decision to announce the ban so publicly in such a rush manner? Who gains and who benefits?

I fear Trump is still in electioneering mode and really has displayed his immaturity and not fit to lead US.

imo, US has not been made to look great at all. Just my tuppance worth.


Think about it... How it could have been managed better :idea:
 
Another key observation here one should consider carefully.

Why the decision to implement Extreme Vetting on these high risk countries not applied quietely?

It could easilly have been done so. All new Visa could have been examined and with the exception of a few declined.

Current visa's allowed to stand and not renewed, with the exception of a few.

None would be wiser, system orderly, everything under the radar and security in control.


What was the decision to announce the ban so publicly in such a rush manner? Who gains and who benefits?

I fear Trump is still in electioneering mode and really has displayed his immaturity and not fit to lead US.

imo, US has not been made to look great at all. Just my tuppance worth.


Think about it... How it could have been managed better :idea:

He's making a point. He's making sure it comes across loud and clear everywhere.
 
He's making a point. He's making sure it comes across loud and clear everywhere.

His loud and brash and a bit of a stage performer. I've think we've all picked up on that.

How has that worked out for him. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38872680



You need to go back 3 places. Do not pass go until you acknowledge alternative facts don't always work amazingly well. :LOL::LOL:

Really Mini was expecting more enlightened response from you. :cheesy:
 
As controversy rages about President Donald Trump’s travel ban, critics have pointed out that the seven predominantly Muslim countries whose citizens have been barred have one thing in common – they are not among the places where the tycoon does business.

The executive order Mr Trump signed blocks entry for the next 90 days to travellers from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Yemen but excluded from the list are several wealthier Muslim majority countries where the Trump Organisation has business interests, including Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Turkey, the UAE, Egypt and Indonesia.

--Independent


This is the stick in the spokes. It will be impossible for anyone to defend this position before any reasonably competent judge.
 
His loud and brash and a bit of a stage performer. I've think we've all picked up on that.

How has that worked out for him. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38872680



You need to go back 3 places. Do not pass go until you acknowledge alternative facts don't always work amazingly well. :LOL::LOL:

Really Mini was expecting more enlightened response from you. :cheesy:

He's not playing to the Authorities.
 
He's not playing to the Authorities.

Not about authorities is it?

His playing into his crowd which he has the full support of anyway?

Is he winning new support?


Keeping US citizens should be about outcomes and benefits? Right now his embroiled in constitutional case that'll run months or years, with no benefit and much cost in time and money.

Shambles :whistling
 
As controversy rages about President Donald Trump’s travel ban, critics have pointed out that the seven predominantly Muslim countries whose citizens have been barred have one thing in common – they are not among the places where the tycoon does business.

The executive order Mr Trump signed blocks entry for the next 90 days to travellers from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Yemen but excluded from the list are several wealthier Muslim majority countries where the Trump Organisation has business interests, including Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Turkey, the UAE, Egypt and Indonesia.

--Independent


This is the stick in the spokes. It will be impossible for anyone to defend this position before any reasonably competent judge.


Absolutely and that's where bombs and terrorist are walking around with their hands in their pockets wondering about the place.



On another note, the Egyption machette attack at the L'ouvre is head scratching indeed. Family can't believe their 29 year old son would do such a thing. Doesn't sound like the work of a terrorist group.

Who benefits? Le Penn! Why now? Who put him up to it? Was he a madman?



So much tosh. Not the sort of thing one wants to wash out in the public media. Having said that considering some of 9/11 attackers were Egyption, one has to ask the question why not add Egypt and Saudi Arabia to that list?

Who compiled the list?

Under what grounds or justification?

Once again not the sort of thing to play out in the public eye.


Trump the Numpty plays celebrity President role in the media lime light. What a farce :rolleyes:
 
The executive order Mr Trump signed blocks entry for the next 90 days to travellers from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Yemen but excluded from the list are several wealthier Muslim majority countries where the Trump Organisation has business interests, including Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Turkey, the UAE, Egypt and Indonesia.

--Independent

Those countries were chosen by the Obama administration prior to his departure, Nothing to do with Trump. I don't understand why everyone is all uppity over this. It's exactly what he said he would do during the campaign and he was elected over Hillary.

Peter
 
Those countries were chosen by the Obama administration prior to his departure, Nothing to do with Trump. I don't understand why everyone is all uppity over this. It's exactly what he said he would do during the campaign and he was elected over Hillary.

Peter

Only because Hillary was such a weak candidate. She had been around too long with hubby Bill and now without.
Trump really fooled middle America into voting for him and his rich cronies. I doubt he will bother about getting many jobs back. They would have to be given a trade wall protection to survive very long. Just political con trickery I regret to say.
 
I doubt he will bother about getting many jobs back.

He already has! Quite a few companies have decided to move production back to the USA and others have decided not to move. Trump has hosted CEO's of major companies in the white house. Obama never did.

Peter
 
He already has! Quite a few companies have decided to move production back to the USA and others have decided not to move. Trump has hosted CEO's of major companies in the white house. Obama never did.

Peter

The rumour is that many are moving their production to India now.
 
He already has! Quite a few companies have decided to move production back to the USA and others have decided not to move. Trump has hosted CEO's of major companies in the white house. Obama never did.

Peter


Bush tried to get steel jobs back with import duties. Had to reverse policies.

US car manufacture costs 45% above that of Japanese cost.


This is a foolish policy. It means US production costs will rise along with US export prices.

US will ultimately end up losing global market share at the expense of gaining domestic market share.

One has to ask the question where/which is the bigger market?

Policy, sounds good on TV. Just doesn't work out on paper. By the way effect of levying steel import duties meant all industries were effected all the way from cost of producing cars to aeroplanes, military hardware and white goods.

There was a program on TV that showed Trumps hotels are littered with foreign manufactured goods.

He should start a buy US goods and services first program which I think may have more positive results except the consumer would have to pay more for most items.


I'm afraid much like our Brexiters the policies just haven't been thought through.

He is hardly what one may call a thinker. A visionary leader or a strategist. More of an opportunist who has made one or two good calls in the past. If one thinks about it, just about every tom dick and harry who ever invested in property has made money in the last 50 years. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to work that out. Any other business his fecked up; ie Gambling and University stuff. Both need people side customer facing skills. So you've got to ask is running Government same as running your business? What's on offer from the hair brained madman?

Really words fail me. So far give the bloke a chance but right now on the world stage, two weeks gone and US is in a mess. More to come once he starts;

- trillions of unafordable tax give aways to the people who already have money
- infrastructure spending that is not matched by tax hikes
- deteriating political climate and global isolation
 
I hope people are aware that someone like Trump could have outlandish designs on America for himself. Maybe it's the end of democracy as we knew it. As Churchill said something on the lines democracy was a pretty poor system but still a lot better than the others, for the majority.
He has way too much power already. Getting control of The Supreme Court is not impossible too.
To quote him " he's not playing games". That's for sure.
Luckily for the rest of us he hasn't got that fanatical support Hitler had.
 
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So, you guys are better politicians, economists, lawyers and business leaders than Trump and all his advisors?

Peter
 
I hope people are aware that someone like Trump could have outlandish designs on America for himself. Maybe it's the end of democracy as we knew it. As Churchill said something on the lines democracy was a pretty poor system but still a lot better than the others, for the majority.
He has way too much power already. Getting control of The Supreme Court is not impossible too.
To quote him " he's not playing games". That's for sure.
Luckily for the rest of us he hasn't got that fanatical support Hitler had.

There are all sorts of civics lessons being offered by current events, and those who didn't pay attention in class, assuming that the subject was broached at all, are getting learning opportunities that haven't been provided for decades.

Having a constitution is a great source of strength. Also being a federation. Also being a republic. OTOH, democracy is fragile, and a great many people have taken America for granted. Events are clearly getting their attention. Can it get worse? Yes, it can. Much worse. However, those who subscribe to the values articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution no longer take them for granted, and that's a plus.
 
So, you guys are better politicians, economists, lawyers and business leaders than Trump and all his advisors?

Peter


No need to ask us.

Just look at your internal institution.

The US federal appeals court has rejected the Trump administration's request to reinstate a travel ban blocked by a federal judge on Friday.

Does that give you any clues?


With respect to economics his policies are wholly wrong. I can vouch for that as an expert. Every politician comes to power promising to spend, get more people working and increase tax revenue. Never works out that way as you can see debt piling up.

US can't afford trillions of tax give aways without raising debt ceiling.

Infrastructure spending should be financed by raising tax revenue.

Income distribution in the US should be less skewed.

Trump's business acumen has been questioned by quite a few. He sues little people. That's how business is conducted in the US. GM food manufacturers such as Montanso and Dow even sued the Hawaii court and changed their democratic ban on use of GM toxics, causing birth defects that are 3 x as high as anywhere else.


If you believe Trump will support the little guy, you must be living in disney land ;)
 
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