phoenixforex
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Al done. Sory it took so long.andybr said:
regards Phoenix Forex .
I have been using Phoenix for over a month now and want to share some thoughts on the system.
Initially I thought that it looked well put together, the CD looked professional and the approach that Sid had seemed plausible.
I am afraid that after that it is all downhill! When you pay your £300, you get a CD with the indicators (more on that later), a few eBooks (not sure about the copyright legality of these) and a very minimal document of how to trade the indicators.
One of the biggest issues with what is delivered is that there are no hard and fast rules - Sid has been very quiet on precisely when to enter (i.e. after the signal appears, after the bar closes, high of bar, etc.), as such everyone will end up in the trade at a different time. As far as exit goes, Sid has said in the chatroom that it is everyone to themselves. The most precise rule is a 25 pip stop loss, but Sid is usually out well before this (although I am not sure if anyone knows what his criteria is). A large part of the system appears discretionary.
Sid published his results for today, which look impressive (+65 -4 +8 +2 -19 +17 +8 +5 +11 -8 +5 +8 +40 +12 -22 +12 +39 +15 -10 +20) but when pressed by members as to what his entries/exits were the silence was deafening! If he was just trading the GBP/USD pair he must have taken some trades without signals.
Sid has frequently said that he would call trades and at one stage arranged for other (experienced) traders to do likewise. This would have been good for trader education, but only lasted a couple of days ... since then Sid has called very few trades. Sid often says how much he has made, in the chatroom, but doesn't allow us the opportunity to follow him and learn (which I thought was the whole idea of the chatroom).
Education sessions, that were promised, have not materialised or have been curtailed, due to Sid being busy with other things. (I know that Sid has gone through some difficult times, but at the end of this we have all paid our money in good faith).
All the indicators are available for free in another bulletin board - someone more cynical than I might suggest that the entire CD was a collection of other people's material, gathered up and sold, but I couldn't possibly comment.
I think that there is something useful in terms of the indicator (trend spotter aka trendsignal - but not to be confused with TrendSignal the company), but anyone wanting to use it will need to develop a complete system around it (ie. how to enter/exit, money management rules, etc.). Interestingly, to quote out of one of the eBooks on the CD, about trade entry - "Entry gets you into the trade but it only contributes to 10% of the profits ....... Your exit and money management will provide the other 90% of the profit."
Initially I thought that it looked well put together, the CD looked professional and the approach that Sid had seemed plausible.
I am afraid that after that it is all downhill! When you pay your £300, you get a CD with the indicators (more on that later), a few eBooks (not sure about the copyright legality of these) and a very minimal document of how to trade the indicators.
One of the biggest issues with what is delivered is that there are no hard and fast rules - Sid has been very quiet on precisely when to enter (i.e. after the signal appears, after the bar closes, high of bar, etc.), as such everyone will end up in the trade at a different time. As far as exit goes, Sid has said in the chatroom that it is everyone to themselves. The most precise rule is a 25 pip stop loss, but Sid is usually out well before this (although I am not sure if anyone knows what his criteria is). A large part of the system appears discretionary.
Sid published his results for today, which look impressive (+65 -4 +8 +2 -19 +17 +8 +5 +11 -8 +5 +8 +40 +12 -22 +12 +39 +15 -10 +20) but when pressed by members as to what his entries/exits were the silence was deafening! If he was just trading the GBP/USD pair he must have taken some trades without signals.
Sid has frequently said that he would call trades and at one stage arranged for other (experienced) traders to do likewise. This would have been good for trader education, but only lasted a couple of days ... since then Sid has called very few trades. Sid often says how much he has made, in the chatroom, but doesn't allow us the opportunity to follow him and learn (which I thought was the whole idea of the chatroom).
Education sessions, that were promised, have not materialised or have been curtailed, due to Sid being busy with other things. (I know that Sid has gone through some difficult times, but at the end of this we have all paid our money in good faith).
All the indicators are available for free in another bulletin board - someone more cynical than I might suggest that the entire CD was a collection of other people's material, gathered up and sold, but I couldn't possibly comment.
I think that there is something useful in terms of the indicator (trend spotter aka trendsignal - but not to be confused with TrendSignal the company), but anyone wanting to use it will need to develop a complete system around it (ie. how to enter/exit, money management rules, etc.). Interestingly, to quote out of one of the eBooks on the CD, about trade entry - "Entry gets you into the trade but it only contributes to 10% of the profits ....... Your exit and money management will provide the other 90% of the profit."
well well ,
Your not happy? hmmmm well not in the room, mistaken i am afraid, did i or did i not give you targets??????
hmmmm me thinks not today at 6.45am i gave you target not just targets BUT on the SODDING NAIL TARGETS.
you dont follow them your fault, personally i got them.
SID
Your not happy? hmmmm well not in the room, mistaken i am afraid, did i or did i not give you targets??????
hmmmm me thinks not today at 6.45am i gave you target not just targets BUT on the SODDING NAIL TARGETS.
you dont follow them your fault, personally i got them.
SID
Hi,
I have been following this thread with interest, but there are quite a few inconsistencies that are bothering me. On 28/12/2004 sid posted this on thread http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12741
"Wise words from c6ackp, Never give up.... I too was in this very same position, trying to hard to make money from SBing, and instead of making money I gave IG Markets all off mine. Then came the PLAN, I put together my trading plan (get intouch with me if you want a copy) and sat down to put it into practice.
60 days of paper trading showed that my plan worked. So i placed £10k in to my IG account and started for real with real money. keeping an eye on the market, and not looking for that big break, just straergy trading, keeping my profits and cutting my loss. NEVER chasing a loss, cos it happens, to us all mate, that is nature of the game. But to give you some support, since I have started my plan, and trading to it, my IG account can now support me, it is at £27k now (in 30 days) thats £17k profit. so never give up mate keep to it, and happy trading."
- - - - - -
So that's an impressive £17k in 30 days (that is super league trading). Impressive..... if it wasnt for the fact that on 21/12/2004, the same Sid posted this on thread http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12986
"Traders Block
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone help? I have once again entered into this line of making money. I came out of it 2 years ago after losing a lot of money, following advice from so called experts, giving me advice on which software to buy etc… it seems that every time I entered into a trade, the market moved away from me, losing more money.
Every now and then I had a winning trade, but after 6 months solid, I just gave up. Now this time I have once again come back, a bigger trading bank, I think a better trading strategy, and the determination to win. I have paper traded for 90 days, and guess what? Yep I won, 80% of the trades, using TS, no software just gut instinct.
But here it comes, every time I go to play with real money, I freeze, can anyone help.
- - - - - -
So just 7 days earlier, he's got traders block, yet still somehow managed to make £17k in a month......... Hmmmmmm.
But there's more to come....
On 23/12/2004 on the same thread as above, he posted...
"At the present time I am staying small with a max of £10 per point. My bank is a £10k base, giving a 10% max loss at any time. I am using stops to try to max out my profit, and using buy & sell limit orders for the tech stuff, I am still trading by gut feeling, cos looking at charts is over my head. I understand HLOC etc... but i think the best feeling for a market is in the gut. I can only get it wrong 50% of the time lol...
- - - -
So here is a man that has made £17k in a month, yet has traders block, trades at £10 p/pt and cant even read charts!!!!!!!! Does anyone else smell a rat here guys???
I have been following this thread with interest, but there are quite a few inconsistencies that are bothering me. On 28/12/2004 sid posted this on thread http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12741
"Wise words from c6ackp, Never give up.... I too was in this very same position, trying to hard to make money from SBing, and instead of making money I gave IG Markets all off mine. Then came the PLAN, I put together my trading plan (get intouch with me if you want a copy) and sat down to put it into practice.
60 days of paper trading showed that my plan worked. So i placed £10k in to my IG account and started for real with real money. keeping an eye on the market, and not looking for that big break, just straergy trading, keeping my profits and cutting my loss. NEVER chasing a loss, cos it happens, to us all mate, that is nature of the game. But to give you some support, since I have started my plan, and trading to it, my IG account can now support me, it is at £27k now (in 30 days) thats £17k profit. so never give up mate keep to it, and happy trading."
- - - - - -
So that's an impressive £17k in 30 days (that is super league trading). Impressive..... if it wasnt for the fact that on 21/12/2004, the same Sid posted this on thread http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12986
"Traders Block
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone help? I have once again entered into this line of making money. I came out of it 2 years ago after losing a lot of money, following advice from so called experts, giving me advice on which software to buy etc… it seems that every time I entered into a trade, the market moved away from me, losing more money.
Every now and then I had a winning trade, but after 6 months solid, I just gave up. Now this time I have once again come back, a bigger trading bank, I think a better trading strategy, and the determination to win. I have paper traded for 90 days, and guess what? Yep I won, 80% of the trades, using TS, no software just gut instinct.
But here it comes, every time I go to play with real money, I freeze, can anyone help.
- - - - - -
So just 7 days earlier, he's got traders block, yet still somehow managed to make £17k in a month......... Hmmmmmm.
But there's more to come....
On 23/12/2004 on the same thread as above, he posted...
"At the present time I am staying small with a max of £10 per point. My bank is a £10k base, giving a 10% max loss at any time. I am using stops to try to max out my profit, and using buy & sell limit orders for the tech stuff, I am still trading by gut feeling, cos looking at charts is over my head. I understand HLOC etc... but i think the best feeling for a market is in the gut. I can only get it wrong 50% of the time lol...
- - - -
So here is a man that has made £17k in a month, yet has traders block, trades at £10 p/pt and cant even read charts!!!!!!!! Does anyone else smell a rat here guys???
Ok Before I Get Thrown Off This Board I Will Be Nice To Everyone.
Ok Here Goes,
Want To Take Me On Head To Head --- Loser --- Take Me On --- I Will Eat You For Breakfast.
I Know What I Can Do Day In And Day Out, Whats You Problem?
God People, When Someone Wants To Help Others And Idiots That Need Their Hands Holding To Trade, Well All I Can Say Is,
Go And Work And Stack Shelves For Tesco.
Regards To One And All
Sid
Ok Here Goes,
Want To Take Me On Head To Head --- Loser --- Take Me On --- I Will Eat You For Breakfast.
I Know What I Can Do Day In And Day Out, Whats You Problem?
God People, When Someone Wants To Help Others And Idiots That Need Their Hands Holding To Trade, Well All I Can Say Is,
Go And Work And Stack Shelves For Tesco.
Regards To One And All
Sid
Mark Hellikson
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Julia said:
Hmmm...I'm confused, who made 17K in one month, Sid, or someone who used his TS system?
And yes, I would love to see the trading plan that earned the 17K in one month...
Thank you.
trendie
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impressive first post, Julia !!
well put together, and linking to the exact posts, so no room for contention.
Many people are interested in this thread, as sid392 came along and purported to offer a system with a definite edge.
Quite a number of people bought into Phoenix on the strength of Sids initial posts.
( I personally was interested, until the trendsignal rules were posted for free, at which point I lost interest )
The problem is, people who are disillusioned are more likely to make a fuss than those who still beaver away at something. This may give a disproportionately bad vibe to a thread.
There may be many subscribers who are battling on yet, or are doing well. Until we hear from them, it may be difficult to assess the true ratio of good to bad.
( it naturally follows that people who make significant money tend to be too busy spending it to post on boards !! )
however, one issue that sid392 has himself pointed out in repsonse to PTS_user that I am interested in is:
sid392 refers to
"hmmmm me thinks not today at 6.45am i gave you target not just targets BUT on the SODDING NAIL TARGETS."
and
"you dont follow them your fault, personally i got them. "
The question is:
does TrendSpotter not give the user COMPLETE rules to enter and exit ?
or is the user DEPENDENT on sid132 to GIVE the targets ?
are the people who buy TS capable of arriving at the "sodding nail" targets all by themselves ?
If so, there should be a multitude of users succeeding and defending sid392.
if not, then TS is only a partial and incomplete system, and the users are at the mercy of sids target posts, telling them what the targets should be.
hope I am not "stirring" it, but my interest is a reflection of my hopes of a trader genuinely interested in helping others, and I genuinely want to clear away uncertainties.
EDIT: replace sid132 with sid392 ! cant read numbers !! explains my negative PnL !!!
well put together, and linking to the exact posts, so no room for contention.
Many people are interested in this thread, as sid392 came along and purported to offer a system with a definite edge.
Quite a number of people bought into Phoenix on the strength of Sids initial posts.
( I personally was interested, until the trendsignal rules were posted for free, at which point I lost interest )
The problem is, people who are disillusioned are more likely to make a fuss than those who still beaver away at something. This may give a disproportionately bad vibe to a thread.
There may be many subscribers who are battling on yet, or are doing well. Until we hear from them, it may be difficult to assess the true ratio of good to bad.
( it naturally follows that people who make significant money tend to be too busy spending it to post on boards !! )
however, one issue that sid392 has himself pointed out in repsonse to PTS_user that I am interested in is:
sid392 refers to
"hmmmm me thinks not today at 6.45am i gave you target not just targets BUT on the SODDING NAIL TARGETS."
and
"you dont follow them your fault, personally i got them. "
The question is:
does TrendSpotter not give the user COMPLETE rules to enter and exit ?
or is the user DEPENDENT on sid132 to GIVE the targets ?
are the people who buy TS capable of arriving at the "sodding nail" targets all by themselves ?
If so, there should be a multitude of users succeeding and defending sid392.
if not, then TS is only a partial and incomplete system, and the users are at the mercy of sids target posts, telling them what the targets should be.
hope I am not "stirring" it, but my interest is a reflection of my hopes of a trader genuinely interested in helping others, and I genuinely want to clear away uncertainties.
EDIT: replace sid132 with sid392 ! cant read numbers !! explains my negative PnL !!!
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trendie
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sid392 said:
sid,
just read your post.
is it possible to just "clear the decks" and start from scratch, and post real-time trades for a couple of weeks, as you did at the beginning ?
that was, after all, the cause of all the interest in TS in the first place.
phoenixforex
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First of all i would like to point out that this should have come up in the members room, although we admit part of it did.PTS_user said:
As for the hard and fast rules, they are there you just didn't bother enough to ask or to read the file on the yahoo group..
The purpose of the group was to provide people with a working system that will help them evolve as traders and doing some money in the process, it was not started as a business.
Trainning sessions did indeed have place in more ocasions, some were private ones 1 on 1 , some were done with the hole group or at least with those who were interested enough to participate, maybe we should have held more but due to time shortages this is what was done...more will follow this week.
"All the indicators are available" you obviously don't know what you are talking about, have you searched and found them for free? a few are of course, no one can patent a Moving Average and some pivots ...
phoenixforex
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Julia said:
You been following this thread with interest for how long? one day?
If you think trading is number of skills learned in 7 days, you're in the wrong business..that's if you are involved in trading at all.
phoenixforex
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trendie said:
we will start doing that again .. this week or the next, so everyone can see once and for all that having a good system and sticking to it one can succed in trading forex, and trading in general.
regards.
SilkenMask
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Good Evening
I am a member of the Phoenix Group... I would just like to take a few moments away from my trading to say hello to everyone on T2W.
I joined the Phoenix group to learn anything more i could about trading and other traders strategies. Any trader who makes a living or a part living out of trading will always try to improve their own techniques, but i think maybe a few have thrown away their own techniques and may have actually stopped analysing for themselves.
I personally did not join the group to have my hand held my nose wiped and to become a Lemming and follow someone elses calls. Yes Sid does Call out his bias for the day each morning before 7am. but that call or any call is a guide for anyone who may wish to take that call or recheck their own analysis if they did not come to the same conclusion of where the market could go.
The group itself is a range of very experienced traders to very new traders and I have found that everyone is willing to listen and learn from others thoughts. A vast amount of debates go on and even some trials. From very good trial tests as well as some not so good.
The System is there for support and confirmation. The majority of the traders in the phoenix trading room have listened to others and hopefully helped each other. Debates do go on and in quiet times becomes very social but even in those quiet times discussions do pop up regarding analysing and others of help to those who may have had problems that day.
Many Traders in the group and myself included intend to be permanent members in the phoenix group and hopefully all become better traders and help others improve.
Yes some have had difficulties they have bad days as well as good and yes some have improved ten fold and i personally feel will improve even more.
Everyone who trades is over 18 and an Adult .. surely as a adult they made their own choices whether to join the group or not. I was under the impression that you make your own decisions and choices once you become an adult.
Personally i loved my hand held when i was a child.. Now only when i'm walking along a moonlit beach
Happy Trading to everyone and for those who are having problems.. I hope you get the support others and myself are getting.
Have a wonderful and hopefully profitable week xxxx
I am a member of the Phoenix Group... I would just like to take a few moments away from my trading to say hello to everyone on T2W.
I joined the Phoenix group to learn anything more i could about trading and other traders strategies. Any trader who makes a living or a part living out of trading will always try to improve their own techniques, but i think maybe a few have thrown away their own techniques and may have actually stopped analysing for themselves.
I personally did not join the group to have my hand held my nose wiped and to become a Lemming and follow someone elses calls. Yes Sid does Call out his bias for the day each morning before 7am. but that call or any call is a guide for anyone who may wish to take that call or recheck their own analysis if they did not come to the same conclusion of where the market could go.
The group itself is a range of very experienced traders to very new traders and I have found that everyone is willing to listen and learn from others thoughts. A vast amount of debates go on and even some trials. From very good trial tests as well as some not so good.
The System is there for support and confirmation. The majority of the traders in the phoenix trading room have listened to others and hopefully helped each other. Debates do go on and in quiet times becomes very social but even in those quiet times discussions do pop up regarding analysing and others of help to those who may have had problems that day.
Many Traders in the group and myself included intend to be permanent members in the phoenix group and hopefully all become better traders and help others improve.
Yes some have had difficulties they have bad days as well as good and yes some have improved ten fold and i personally feel will improve even more.
Everyone who trades is over 18 and an Adult .. surely as a adult they made their own choices whether to join the group or not. I was under the impression that you make your own decisions and choices once you become an adult.
Personally i loved my hand held when i was a child.. Now only when i'm walking along a moonlit beach
Happy Trading to everyone and for those who are having problems.. I hope you get the support others and myself are getting.
Have a wonderful and hopefully profitable week xxxx
sid392 said:
Sid,
I am not sure if this was directed at me - if so, I wouldn't want to take you on, you are obviously a far better trader than I am - your results speak for themselves and I cannot match them. That is why I signed up for Phoenix.
As far as I know Phoenix wasn't marketed at just experienced traders, but for those who need help and who need their hand held.
You know what you can do, as you say .......... but you offered to help the rest of us do the same (for a fee).
I am very happy if I am the only one who has not been able to make this work - it means that the problem lies with me, but even being in the chatroom it is impossible to tell how others are doing (lot of celebration when good trades are closed).
I would encourage people to post their success stories (along with pips).
Julia said:
Good post Julia. I must admit to being intrigued by Sid's previous posts - actually one of the reasons for signing up. I wanted to see how he was able to turn things around.
It is interesting that he has not disclosed his trading plan (as far as I know) to the traders on Phoenix, but it would have made his life a lot easier in terms of training others if he had.
trendie said:
Trendie - Sid gives the targets, but he has not explicitly said how he comes by them. The answer has always been research and news (fundamental analysis?), so the chatroom is dependent on Sid to give the targets. Trendspotter does not give the exact rules for entry and exit - there is an element of discretion about the whole thing.
I think you are right about disillusioned traders - I certainly do not want my views to distort this thread, but I wanted to sound a warning to anyone thinking of signing up - expect to do a lot of work to make this profitable. My intention in posting is to give a view of my experience of Phoenix - this will not be everyone's and hopefully we will see an avalanche supporting the system.
I am dismayed at the emotional and somewhat personal attack, by Sid, in response to my original post.
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phoenixforex said:
You'll probably need to join the Yahoo MetaTrader group to get these, but here ya go...
Here is your MetaTrader v4 TrendSpotter indicator. The only difference is the color of the arrows. The rest of what the "Trend Spotter system" uses is built into MT4. Bolliger bands, pivots, MAs, etc..
http://f3.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QH_uQk...m Indicators/SilverTrend_SignalWith Alert.mq4
Here is the original version for MT3.
http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QH_uQo...Y/MQL-II Custom Indicators/SilverTrendSig.mql
This is not some "Holy Grail" trading system, it's been around for awhile now.
I've attached them here as well for easier access. If you want to send me $100, I'll be happy to provide this on a CD.
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