Trading Ftse £1 Per Pip, With 3000 Pip Stoploss!! :)

[DC STOXX]

lol this guy cracks me up every time

 

[Hoggums]

Dont forget that to hold a £1 position will cost you approx 5% (which is over £1 per day). If you buy a rolling daily then the charges are more likely to be 7.5% on the money you've leveraged.

So - if you hold a position on the rolling daily for 12 months and the FTSE rises by 7.5% - you will have made no profit whatsoever. If the FTSE rises by 6% over the year - you will lose money.

Do you really think that the FTSE will constantly make >7.5% pa?

I would recommend adding a simple entry criteria - e.g. if the index drops by > 5% from recent high - make an entry. It'll only happen 2-3 times a year but should give you a better chance of profiting.

 

[gamma]

i have been involved in the market for over 12 years now from liffe floor to prop trader
so i feel i do have some credentials

Yes! someone involved in the market as you say for 12 years would be more sympathetic and understanding of Spanish's position and offer some decent advice, not call him a "Muppet" and further more when someone points this out to you call them a **snip**.

 

[normbeef]

Is it not the point here that Spanish seems to be constantly "brain dumping" his idea's onto this site (with some irritation to the odd member) ... I find it to be a bit like looking into the brain of a newbie trader with all the emotions and angst that comes with it...

I have to say I reckon he is becomming a bit of a "star" in a funny way as he is not in the least bit coy about telling us all his crazy idea's and problems... I reckon he could be one of these guys who eventually nails it and makes it big... perhaps we should all give him a £100 quid each now... whilst he's still skint lol lol

 

[prop]

firstly gamma i apologise to you for calling you a puller of the right wrist

but

come on guys you are encouraging spanish in an idea that is destined to fail, i dont want to see the guy fail, but he really is onto a loser with his 3000 tick idea and you know that !

i did actually give hime some good advice when i told hime to stop right now and go away and read up on some vital lessons that he can learn both from this forum and from trading books that are available

ok maybe i was a bit harsh, but the markets will be even more harsh and thats the truth

they dont care, they will take your money,

spanish, you really dont want to be doing this crazy 3000 tick stop loss thing

you cant afford it for a start and its only going to cause you pain and damage

i cannot imagine what watching a position go 3000 ticks offside would do to me !

its really not the way forward

stop right now, dont even try trading, just read and learn, look at charts but dont get involved, even on a simulated basis, even if you are simulating you are not being objective, take some time and read up on the markets and yourself, save up some money till you can afford to trade (which from the sound of things you cannot at the moment)

take your time, the market will be there in xyz weeks, months, years etc

 

[gamma]

This is probably the type of advice that Spanish needs ! prop!

 

[prop]

cheers, i admit i have been a bit harsh on here at times, but i have turned over a new leaf and am now going to try and do some good and give back a little something that may just help

 

[grantx]

Offensive or not, Prop is dead right. No two ways about it. Most people (myself included) would prefer to pussy-foot around the issue to avoid giving offence. And ultimatately, this is just as damaging as bad advice.

I'm a legendary member now, RC. Up yours, mate.

Grant.

 

[spanish89]

REAGRDING SPANISH89's RECENT POST **(NEW)**

ALoha again, i hope many of you are still feeling the honour and priveledge of being able to read my last new inspirational post... :cheesy:


And so heres another juciy sub thread about that thread though where we can instead what lots of you people were just doing on the other post of;

'Telling me how crap this idea is, saying that im just a new rookie and tat im going to fail and lose all my money, and then going on to bragging about how much smarter and cleverer than me you are...'

Now its time for all you bitches to stop the slagging off and bitchy opions, and back up what you are saying with pure logic, facts, and numbers !! :cheesy::cheesy:



No more opions whatsoever, no slagging off, no telling us how great you are, no calling anyone else a newbie or rookie and saying 1day il learn..

Just provide pure logic, facts and numbers to prove to me and everyone else here that doing this idea i will lose my money, and that i wont make profit!!


:cheesy:





Il start-

Im going to buy the FTSE at 6080 (sept futures contract), with a stoploss of 6079pips (so at '1' point).

I use Tradindex.com, so im not sure what someone in other post was saying about how they will charge me interest and stuff, but none of tht sorta nonsense will be relevenat as its not a brokerage firm, its a spreadbetting site, so the only price im paying is £8, for the 8pip spread i think for that contract.


There are only 2 ways that i can now lose any of my money-

1. Between now and september the FTSE 100 market never ever goes up by 10points more than what it currently is at, (5days of straight falling from 6500)!!

2. The entire UK economy collapses, england becomes a 3rd world country, and so the entire UK stockmarket just is completely wiped out and ceases to exist!!!



But to make profit all i need is for at any 1 time over the next 4months for the FTSE 100 to go up by atleast 10points more!! :cheesy::cheesy:




Now you all can go to my other thread and slag this idea off, laugh at it, say it sounds ridiculous and that im going to lose all my money..........


But now this message is for all of you

''Come on then, but instead of being a stuckup arrogant lil *unt and going on and on about how everyone elses idea is crap and wont work;

1. Specify exactly how what i am doing isnt going to make me profit at anytime over the next 4months between now and september, but instead will lose me all my money??

2. and then also specify exactly how what you do is less likely to make you lose money than my idea??



No personal opinions, no old cliche phrases, no referring to mine or anyone else's age of time experience of working as a trader.

Simply provide 2 clear straightforward answers to the 2 questions above based purely on logic, fact and numbers.

 

[nine]

Here is the reply you deserve spanish

Grow up



but, a more generous answer would be to provide you with the question: what do you think your stop loss is going to do when the market trades through it?

 

[MrGecko]

Spanish,

Firstly, welcome back. I for one have missed your exuberance, for which you should be commended.

However, there are a few things I feel you ought to know before you go about your latest scheme.

1) It won't work.

Taking a long term view on an index is fine; investing in a long term index is fine; but in this case you must think carefully about how much being right is going to be worth. You are making the trade (more like a bet) that, given enough time, the FTSE will push through your entry and begin to show you a profit, and you are probaby right.

BUT, given your circumstances, using your capital to back this trade is going to cost you overall. The interest that you are earning on your tied up capital will be a pittance (and I bet that your SB firm will charge you a fortune in you move into -ve balance). The value of 1GBP per point isn't going to be inflation linked - so the longer you leave the bet on, the less "value" it has in real money. And given your 3000pip stop loss, it only really makes sense to make the trade if you hold it until you are +3000 pips in profit - god knows how long this could take! You must also be sure you have the discipline to let the trade run, a question you should answer very honestly. What I'm trying to say is, that even if you are right about the direction of the FTSE, playing it in this way is never going to work out for a profit.

There are other ways to play it though; If you've got some spare cash, and you want to make a long term trade (invest) in the FTSE, pop along to your bank and ask about an ISA. Then you have to pick out which shares/unit trusts etc... (your bank will probably have something which tracks the FTSE very closely) you would like your money to be invested in - you can even leave some in Cash to earn a stonking rate of interest. Your money will be safer, still tax free, protected against inflation and earning more interest. If you want to make a long term play, this is the way to go.

Having said all that, the best thing to do is none of the above. The MOST PROFITABLE thing you can do will be to pay off your credit cards. No matter how you use the cash you're looking to trade, you won't be able to make up for the interest that your CC company are charging you. Being a trader means that sometimes you have to take some punishment, but you crack on nonetheless. Spanish, this is one of those situations. be serious, cut your (not insignificant) losses, and pay off the debts. Don't think of this as quitting though mate; Right now you have to find out what is going to be more valuable in the future and make that trade. That trade is to Pay off your debts. [fixed income traders do this all day long - calculate the present value of future cash flows (adjust for IR volatilities, credit risk and so on) and pick the one with the most profit / least cost.]

2) Spanish, you really have to ask yourself if you are cut out for this mate. You have already lost 2k and rising (maybe more) from scalping through an SB firm, which, frankly, is ridiculous. How much more are you prepared to lose before you knock it on the head? Is this only going to be an (expensive) hobby of yours, or do you seriously intend to make a living out of this sh!t?? There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a flutter on the Dow, but there is something wrong about thinking it will make you rich overnight.

You have demonstrated to us all that you are ambitious to make a successful trader out of yourself. But being ambitious and having the diligence and capability to do what is required are two totally seperate things. Before you start punting XXpp on whatever, you should prove to yourself that you have got what it takes; the drive, the discipline; the smarts; everything. There are plenty of resources available, in books and on the web, covering all things glamorous in trading - it is the unglamorous stuff you should test yourself at before you start putting more money on the line. I'm sure others will disagree, but IMO a good place to start (as good as any) would be:

*An A level maths textbook;

*an A level Economics textbook;

*A recommended book on Technical Analysis

*Using the Financial Pages (or whatever)

*Excel for finance / dummies (delete as appropriate)

read them until you understand. Answer the textbook questions until you get them right. If you can do the above, move on to paper trading again and "step up" the level of books you read. Do this until you can see why your current (hair brained) scheme is silly, and you have the building blocks of a strategy to trade the markets.

3) Spanish, you seem to change direction more frequently than the wind. Furthermore, I am with prop, infact I think "muppet" is generous. Ditch your ebay scams, get a job and do the bloody work. Either that or quit while you are ahead (??) - It is not that I am trying to discourage you, but someone has to say that - so far - it seems very unlikely you have the skills to succeed in this profession; not yet, anyway.

 

[spanish89]

Here is the reply you deserve spanish.

Grow up.

LOL

See what i mean!!


You will talk and talk about how its a crap idea and how ur a great sucess....,

but when it comes time to actually prove that your correct you cant do it!!

 

[spanish89]

what do you think your stop loss is going to do when the market trades through it?

When the market trades through it??

Um i dont know if you some how managed to misunderstand what im actually doing, but either you must have or you just cant count i guess... Lol


My stoploss is going to be at '1 point'.

So for the FTSE 100 to 'trade through it', the entire UK market and economy would simply have to completely collapse and be absolutely worthless, so at '0'.

 

[nine]

I see.

You have decided to give up trading - you have grown up.

You have instead decided to become and investor. Interestingly you have decided to be the least profitable kind of investor - one who is prepared to take a loss of anything up to 48,632gbp in return for a win of 80gbp(I don't see the target but you keep talking about 10 points so I guess thats your target).

If you are serious about this style of investment you could look up "selling covered calls" for a description of the joys of eating like a bird and ****ting like an elephant.

Presumably when you have your 80 quid you will reinvest for another 80, and so on.
I have friends who bought Cisco at $80 and were still holding it as it went through $10 because they didn't like stop loss orders either. Good luck - let us know if the pain gets really interesting in a year or so.
.

 

[spanish89]

What exactly do you mean 'my spead betting firm are going to charge me interest'??

They charge 8pips on this futures spread, so it cost me £8.

All i need is for the ftse to go 8points up at any 1 time between now and septemeber and i could then just close at profit!


While i do appreciate the amount of time you have spent writing the post, i strongly suggest you clear you mind, drop all your personal opions about me, my stratergies and any thoughts you have about how my idea may sound verbally....

And instead look at it based ONLY on pure logic, facts and numbers.

 

[MrGecko]

Jesus Christ...

Spanish this is what you need to do:

Find out how much financing this position is going to cost you - either from the interest you will be charged by the lender, or the interest you are sacrificing from holding the cash at your bank rate.

Find out how much margin you are going to have to deposit to fund the stop (I guess this will only work if your account stays positive otherwise your broker will close the trade, which means you'll need at least 6088GBP?)

Find out what return you will be getting on the margin.

your non-risk adjusted break even is the amount you miss out on from interest (we'll exclude inflation on such a short term, and for simplicity) you could have earned by leaving the money in the bank, plus the spread on the contract. You need to make this amount in GBP before you have actually made any money.

Still, given that, you are not being compensated for your risk. For a trade to be profitable, it should return a reward in excess of that which the risk suggest; it's a bit like betting $100 to win back $1 with 50:50 odds - unless you get it right 101 times in a row, it's going to cost you. In this case, your risk is 6088GBP - so the trade isn't really worth the risk unless you can make that much back, plus all the lost interest. Over time, this system is going to bite you in the ar$e and send you bust, as you are not being compensated for the risks you are taking.

Have you looked at buying Sept ATM call options? Or Binaries?

 

[spanish89]

I wouldnt call this 'investing' though.

I prefer to call it 'Buying out the entire market trading'!! :cheesy::cheesy:


Im not sure how you came to the numbers you did, and you comments about cisco show a lack of common sense market wise.


Im using a stoploss that just covers the entire market, so the only way my stoploss can ever be hit is if the entire market completely and totally ends and just ceases to exist!! LOL

While with equities and companies such as Cisco this can happen, the company can go bankrupt.

The ftse 100 is the entire uk economy!!!


So im not sure what you think the odds are that the entire UK stockmarket is going to simpy become worth £0 and just cease to exist???!!



And my profit can be whatever i want t take it at... :cheesy:

If over the coming week FTSE goes backup to around 6350 - 400 i will take it there and so make about £300.

I may decide i want to take it the next time the FTSE reaches 6100, so just make about £15 profit.

I may even decide i want to wait 3months, and then take it when the FTSE goes around the 6750 mark, if it reaches that high. LOL


The '8' that i was talking about is the number of pips spread for the market!



You all claim you are rich sucesful traders, yet it really is staggering how liitle basic common sense and logic you actually possess,
and lots of you dont even seem to be able to actually read yet!!




But this thread isnt for bitching or personal opinions though,
so if you are so sure that im wrong and you are right why are you so determined not to answer the 2 simple questions i have asked people to answer in this post??


1. Specify exactly how what i am doing isnt going to make me profit, but instead will lose me all my money??

2. And then also specify exactly how what you do is less likely to make you lose money than my idea??


No personal opinions, no old cliche phrases, no referring to mine or anyone else's age of time experience of working as a trader.


Simply provide 2 clear straightforward answers to the 2 questions above based purely on logic, fact and numbers.

 

[nine]

And all that after Mr Gecko actually made the effort to get something through that thick skull of yours. You simply don't get it. You are an ungrateful wretch spanish.

- perhaps its time to take that job as a policeman?

.

 

[nine]

Just do what you are saying. Repeat and Rinse. You will obviously continue to make a fortune.

You already have the answer if you follow my lead on Covered Call writing and figure out how that relates to your new master strategy.

The only thing I regret is that the Spread Betting company will profit from you rather than some real trader. You are good for a laugh though so I should stop discouraging you. Go for it Spanish ... tell us how well its going. Here's a hint - it will go really well until one day it goes awfully badly.

 

[spanish89]

Im not sure what these extra cost are that everyone is going on about, all this interest and stuff....

But i dont have any of that stuff!!


I trade with Tradindex, its a simple 8pip spread, so will cost me £8.

There are no extra charges for having money in the account . Lol