higherSelfishness
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Trading for a Living
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higherSelfishness
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then again, one could easily argue that one could very well enter more than one trade at a time? hm ... (cue twilight zone theme)
Semantics and banter aside.
A critical aspect to trading is to have clear goals and targets so you can plan to work towards them. Without this it is very hard to remain disciplined and focussed. Trading needs to be treated as a very definable business.
My post was just showing a concern for you, that you give these aspects lots of thought, as your two reproduced posts seemed to indicate a lack of cohesion.
My slightly ambiguous nature of the delivery was a tool designed to provoke greater thought (through your potential lack of understanding my post)that you as the reader may not have devoted as much time on this as you should have. Because my belief is that any one here who has, would have realised my point straight away. Therefore your lack of understanding acting to reinforce my point.
It is so easy to skip this part of planning and I believe the type of individuals that are attracted to trading are more prone to this than others.
A critical aspect to trading is to have clear goals and targets so you can plan to work towards them. Without this it is very hard to remain disciplined and focussed. Trading needs to be treated as a very definable business.
My post was just showing a concern for you, that you give these aspects lots of thought, as your two reproduced posts seemed to indicate a lack of cohesion.
My slightly ambiguous nature of the delivery was a tool designed to provoke greater thought (through your potential lack of understanding my post)that you as the reader may not have devoted as much time on this as you should have. Because my belief is that any one here who has, would have realised my point straight away. Therefore your lack of understanding acting to reinforce my point.
It is so easy to skip this part of planning and I believe the type of individuals that are attracted to trading are more prone to this than others.
NVP
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QU - How to (re) allocate winnings / Earnings ?
ANS - its all about risk management (as is everything else in life)
N
(Clue- only keep minimum required levels of money with Brokers and be wary of all Countries that guarantee a £xx return of your deposits on any Bankrupted Bank......they just might not pay out)
ANS - its all about risk management (as is everything else in life)
N
(Clue- only keep minimum required levels of money with Brokers and be wary of all Countries that guarantee a £xx return of your deposits on any Bankrupted Bank......they just might not pay out)
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NVP
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yep...........my bank tells me that up to £80k is safe in their hands and backed by the British Treasury
but whos backing up the British Treasury ?
the Fed ?
N
Pat494
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yep...........my bank tells me that up to £80k is safe in their hands and backed by the British Treasury
but whos backing up the British Treasury ?
the Fed ?
N
The British taxpayers.
Do the politicians ask us if we would like to carry 2nd rate politicians' mistakes ?
er no - not really.It's either pink wasters or blue meanies.
advfntrader
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everything I said makes sense Lee, trading with a full time job is even more difficult, you can't give either the trading OR your job full attention. I KNOW as I tried it for 4 years
regarding my "gambling" problem....I was trading and I lost. like many many traders have lost and lost and lost, are they problem gamblers ?? It was my family that reckon its a gambling problem. they do not understand really what trading is, just like many many discussions on here talking about trading vs gambling.
all the talk of "get back on the horse", "self improvement" etc. etc. when it comes to trading....would people say these things to a person who wanted to be a pro poker player ?? NO - only in the trading industry such things are said and this is conveniently to the advantage of all the brokers who are quite happy to take your money
my outlook is negative...and guess what ...the stats back it up....95% or more LOSE. simple as that
regarding my "gambling" problem....I was trading and I lost. like many many traders have lost and lost and lost, are they problem gamblers ?? It was my family that reckon its a gambling problem. they do not understand really what trading is, just like many many discussions on here talking about trading vs gambling.
all the talk of "get back on the horse", "self improvement" etc. etc. when it comes to trading....would people say these things to a person who wanted to be a pro poker player ?? NO - only in the trading industry such things are said and this is conveniently to the advantage of all the brokers who are quite happy to take your money
my outlook is negative...and guess what ...the stats back it up....95% or more LOSE. simple as that
I sit here pondering as it's Friday night and usually I'm out but for a couple of months I am sat here looking on using T2W as an extension to Facebook (it makes me feel better
I have to add while I sit here (casually) drinking and its been something thats been on my lips and probably many others for some time:
Ignore everything that ADVFNTRADER says and stay clear of his negative outlook on life - this person (who remains anonymous) needs professional help , not help from forum guys like us. He has admitted to a gambling problem and thus has nothing to do with trading full stop.
advfntrader - for your own sake seek professional help and stay off professional trading and gambling forums - this will not help you nor others. It is only damaging to yourself and you will only inevitably embarrass yourself and others around and close to you.
Benj1981
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I ran this post by my mentor, and he said to me about you; "with his new views about trading, he's probably as close as he's ever been to getting a grip on things." Oh the irony!
advfntrader
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your mentor is right, I can see much more clearly now due to the turmoil I have been through in trading, you won't understand probably as you haven't been there yet...
just think about it from another viewpoint. you want to be a professional GAMBLER (Trader). no different to a professional poker player or a professional Blackjack player. NO DIFFERENT. that maybe extremely difficult for many to get their heads round but thats the facts.
you are risking money in the hope of making more money.
unless you have a proven edge then you are wasting your time
just think about it from another viewpoint. you want to be a professional GAMBLER (Trader). no different to a professional poker player or a professional Blackjack player. NO DIFFERENT. that maybe extremely difficult for many to get their heads round but thats the facts.
you are risking money in the hope of making more money.
unless you have a proven edge then you are wasting your time
Proven edge?
Define "proven".
Define "edge".
I think the concept of proven edge are pure folly. "Edges" I'm afraid come and go.
Nokia used to have an edge. Now it's a basket case. Railways used to have an edge. Now they are loss making in most countries.
I think one has to approach trading not from a gambling mentality but from a business mentality. To survive in business you must adapt or you will die. The same applies to trading.
If you'd run a breakout system 30 years ago you'd be a billionaire. If you ran it over the last 10 years you'd probably be in your 2 year of 30% drawdown.
An edge only exists in hindsight......
An edge can disappear overnight. I've seen it happen more than once, to myself and to others. Unless you adapt, you die.
I know of 3 traders (billion dollar hedge fund traders) that have thrown in the towel because the markets "have changed".
The clearest example is the guys who used to make a market, they had an edge. Now the computer is quicker and better than them.......... an edge comes and goes.
My personal viewpoint is that trading is a business like any other.
You have overheads (losing trades) and revenue (winning trades). You need a way of trading that is adaptable, yet statistically likely to make your revenue bigger than your overheads.
Then do as any good business man would do, expand, refocus, refinance, streamline, adapt, etc etc. Milk that mother ****er dry. Then, move on.
No one is 'gambling'.
No one has a 'proven edge'.
2 cents
And back to my friend with the 7 figure profit for 8 years. He's only hitting 6 figures this year and is planning how he is going to adapt as he can foresee his BUSINESS waning due to a couple points that are key to his strategy.
If you know your business well enough. You will know why it works and what it would take to cause it's failure. Not many get to that stage and that's why they fail.
Define "proven".
Define "edge".
I think the concept of proven edge are pure folly. "Edges" I'm afraid come and go.
Nokia used to have an edge. Now it's a basket case. Railways used to have an edge. Now they are loss making in most countries.
I think one has to approach trading not from a gambling mentality but from a business mentality. To survive in business you must adapt or you will die. The same applies to trading.
If you'd run a breakout system 30 years ago you'd be a billionaire. If you ran it over the last 10 years you'd probably be in your 2 year of 30% drawdown.
An edge only exists in hindsight......
An edge can disappear overnight. I've seen it happen more than once, to myself and to others. Unless you adapt, you die.
I know of 3 traders (billion dollar hedge fund traders) that have thrown in the towel because the markets "have changed".
The clearest example is the guys who used to make a market, they had an edge. Now the computer is quicker and better than them.......... an edge comes and goes.
My personal viewpoint is that trading is a business like any other.
You have overheads (losing trades) and revenue (winning trades). You need a way of trading that is adaptable, yet statistically likely to make your revenue bigger than your overheads.
Then do as any good business man would do, expand, refocus, refinance, streamline, adapt, etc etc. Milk that mother ****er dry. Then, move on.
No one is 'gambling'.
No one has a 'proven edge'.
2 cents
And back to my friend with the 7 figure profit for 8 years. He's only hitting 6 figures this year and is planning how he is going to adapt as he can foresee his BUSINESS waning due to a couple points that are key to his strategy.
If you know your business well enough. You will know why it works and what it would take to cause it's failure. Not many get to that stage and that's why they fail.
Benj1981
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Risking what % per trade? A 30%, 2 year dd risking 1%, wouldn't mean to me or my mentor, that the edge no longer exists on a system that exploits breakouts and trends - both sound principles. In fact, 2 years is a very insignificant length of time (pm me if you want to know how insignificant when risking a significant % per trade). This is taking into account the prior 30 year exceptional performance. Systems go into dd's for years, yet you won't find many to trade through the dd's to get to the giant profits on the other side. Therefore, it can seem like the markets have changed and your edge is gone.
advfntrader
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who is this mystical "mentor" you have then Benji ??
Haha. Try telling your investors, yourself, your wife, your mistress, your boyfriend, your boss that 2 years is an insignificant drawdown.
Think you've got a long way to go Benji.
Shakone
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Nice post. Just my 2 cents, but I think that when people use the term 'proven edge', they don't mean proven in the sense of permanent, or as in a maths proof that can't be argued with, but that it is proven sufficiently to the trader himself, so that he is confident enough to trade it correctly.
Of course edges can change. But you could trade a breakout system now in the last 10 years and still make lots of money. It might not be the same method that made billions 30 years ago though.
Benj1981
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I'm sorry you don't like that i disagree with you, but my statement is based on facts and statistics. I think it sounds like you need to study drawdowns, lengths of drawdown related to bet size, optimal sizing and statistics, more D70. This is not a dig, it's some useful advice if you choose to follow it. Again, pm me if you want me to point you in the right direction with the necessary reading material. I repeat, a 2 year drawdown risking, say 40%, of the optimal bet size per trade, is a very insignificant period of time even over a 10 year period, let alone a 30 year sample, which you gave as an example.
GTTY.
Shakone
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That depends on the style and frequency of trading though doesn't it? If a day trader making several trades a day was in a 2 year drawdown this has more significance than a long term trader who makes one trade a month.
