Trading for a Investment bank

[jiggly]

o yea and they will test you on numerical and verbal reasoning, so who ever started this thread, it should be 'Trading for AN investment bank'

well spotted, but you could have addressed the OP directly

 

[gooseman]

aaron-i hope that is tongue in cheek.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

I have a first degree, a masters degree, am an excel god and can write a bit of VBA. But I still don't reckon I'd get in these days. It really can be that tough.

Thats ridiculous. How many heads applying for each position now?

 

[GammaJammer]

So this is all really down to sub-prime lending? The more time I spend on this site the more I'm finding the news only tells us part of the story some of the time.

At risk of divertig the thread to exploit you GJ but why the hell were the banks allowed to accumulate such a vast amount of sub prime debt. Was there poor regulation? I'd have though it would be capped %wise or something.

Because i) They're greedy f**wits and ii) because, just like every other bloody financial crisis in recent times, the people charged with oversight (both in terms of bank management, and in terms of regulators) had zero idea about the complexities of the products they were scrutinising.

Plus (and here's the unpalatable part for many people) the greedy public brought it upon themselves by overleveraging to a simply staggering degree in the housing market (especially in the states where the documentation requirements to support earnings statements seemed in some cases to be an utter farce). So, ultimately, greed on all sides was a huge component.

We've ended up with the market we truly deserve, and although it has affected me personally, and cost me a fair bit of money, I'm still really glad it happened fwiw. It helps that most of my mates who lost their jobs are ok now and have moved on (all FX people btw - I don't actually know any of the mortgage traders who got us into this mess - they're mostly still hiding).

 

[fifty2aces]

the end result is to make money

Speaking of which, you'll almost certainly get a bigger cut of your profits in a prop firm than a bank.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

aaron-i hope that is tongue in cheek.

I'm quite tired. I was dreaming about being short in the dow and cable and I kept waking up sweating and then falling asleep back into the same dream. My mind is broken today.

 

[jiggly]

Speaking of which, you'll almost certainly get a bigger cut of your profits in a prop firm than a bank.

yeah, it seems that an IB is probably not the way for me, I am still working towards not needing anyone(financially),

but time is time and money is money.

 

[blancspa]

yeah, it seems that an IB is probably not the way for me, I am still working towards not needing anyone(financially),

but time is time and money is money.

I feel you should try prop shop

 

[jiggly]

I feel you should try prop shop

I will send some enquiring emails and see what happens

 

[GammaJammer]

I personally feel having a far smaller font in your T2W signature would be a great start......

 

[gooseman]

Thats ridiculous. How many heads applying for each position now?

easily 500 per position here.

there are ALOT of very good candidates around. Not withstanding those with previous that have been made redundant.

 

[GammaJammer]

If you put "I know the Goose" on the top of the CV it helps....

 

[gooseman]

yep-helps me "file" it.

 

[Skill Leverage]

I'm personally of the opinion that if you're good enough for an IB to be interested in taking you from a prop firm (rare and unlikely as that is), you'd be better off staying where you are. They're two totally different careers, one isn't a stepping stone to the other...I think a lot of people have a massively over-inflated idea of the glamour and excitement of trading at a bank; no offence to Gooseman/GJ etc., I just know a few boys who are/were involved in that line of work, and the consensus among some is that it aint quite all it's cracked up to be. That said, a lot of people love it more than their own mother.

With regard to the OP, based on what I've read from you here I'd be less worried about whether it's prop or IB for you, and more worried about whether it's trading or a seat with the BNP..

 

[gooseman]

SL that's because most people don't fully understand what trading is.

 

[GammaJammer]

To be fair I don't think I've ever come out and said my job is 'glamorous' (although I 100% guarantee you it's exciting at times). But Goose is right - most people just have a tendancy to think of an IB as just a larger, glorified prop shop......

 

[Technically Fundamental]

Give me a job, Goose.

 

[gooseman]

as usual-give me reasons why

 

[wfo]

My 2p worth....

Most of the big IB banks do (did?) have prop desks running many different strategies in many different asset class via quant / discretionary methods (on top of the usual market making / client execution trading). Unfortunately the recent problems in the markets has seen pretty much all of these reduce their risk drastically (thus reducing or even cutting prop desks altogether). It is crazy to see how many out of work prop guys there are from good IBs at the moment. Many have been forced to leave the industry or reinvent themselves in client facing roles (like sales / analysts within IBs...).

Even with this in mind, prop desks do still exist and they are still making money (albeit generally with reduced position sizes etc) - trust me because I'm in contact with a lot of them most days of the week!

In good times, how would you have joined the ranks? In my experience, if you weren't lucky enough to have been a grad starting out as the coffee monkey on a prop desk, IBs tended to promote from within (typically, good sales guys if they proved themselves with good idea generation etc and occasionally from the middle office). Hence even in good times - it would be tough to get in from the outside...

So what are your options? With the above in mind, probably best to go down the Prop shop route and take whatever track record you have and test the water. If they say "no", it leaves you in no worse a position than you're in now...

 

[Technically Fundamental]

as usual-give me reasons why

I'll work hard. 12 hr days and gain qualifications and I'll undercut everyone on salary.