Trading for a Investment bank

[jiggly]

if you want to not answer to anyone then a bank isn't for you. red tape everywhere. as someone said above most bank traders are flow traders/treasury etc, not actual prop. Sure they will have a risk book book most are just offsetting risk in one form or another.

you can try perhaps to hit algo funds/indpendent locals etc but i suspect opportunities will be limited.

thanks didnt think of that

worst thing you could do is take a loan to trade mate. may as well switch off the lights.
infinate% agree

what route did you take, out of interest, if you dont mind sharing......

 

[Technically Fundamental]

Since derivatives are "the way out of this mess we're in" only way you're getting near a trading desk in a bank these days is with a Msc in Fin Maths. that is unless you have previous experience.

 

[gooseman]

graduate.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

graduate.

over 23/4 going for a graduate position?

 

[jiggly]

From the sound of things, prop would suit you better than an IB. You'll have far less freedom in a bank, and they're less likely to be doing the same kind of trading that you have experience in. The best way into an IB job is an oxbridge 1st and a lot of interesting things on your CV.

thanks for your suggestions and insight.

 

[jiggly]

graduate.

I have a degree, IT orientated.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

prop firm lol.

 

[gooseman]

over 23/4 going for a graduate position?

what the hell are you on about. he asked what route i took. you tend to jump in with both feet.

 

[jiggly]

what the hell are you on about. he asked what route i took. you tend to jump in with both feet.

I think he should go back and re-read everything he and everyone else has posted, and maybe he can join us, on the same page.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

Oh I though you said graduate because I posted saying derivs desk with a Msc Fin maths would be only way in with no experience.

 

[apmf]

I have heard even in a prop firms they will keep you in their simulator for a long period of time even after showing a profitable track record. Why is that?
How long some one on an average spends in demo before going live and trade good a/c size.
Sorry if I sound too naive.

 

[gooseman]

think of it in other terms-would you let someone loose with leveraged money that is not theirs without verifying their trading?

 

[jiggly]

I have heard even in a prop firms they will keep you in their simulator for a long period of time even after showing a profitable track record. Why is that?
How long some one on an average spends in demo before going live and trade good a/c size.
Sorry if I sound too naive.

maybe they want to see you actually do what you say you have done,

 

[blancspa]

maybe they want to see you actually do what you say you have done,

even you super wizard great talent fantastic four, they will not let you in without oxbridge degree imo , consider people advice on prop shops

 

[apmf]

think of it in other terms-would you let someone loose with leveraged money that is not theirs without verifying their trading?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[GammaJammer]

Some anecdotal evidence I've seen / heard actually points to the people in the middle level being the ones most at risk from bank and other institution downsizing. Grads are ok cos they're cheap, and you always need some jub labour on a desk. Chief dealers and the like are ok because they have often worked their way into strategic positions, middle layer are all experiencing 'squeaky bum time'.......

But in terms of new people getting hired, basically most of the big shops have headcount freezes right now at ALL levels, so this debate is totally moot at the moment - doesn't matter what degree you have, whether you have had a good year punting your one lots on the Dax or whatever. They still ain't hiring because they all p*ssed the budget money away letting destitute Floridians buy 5 bedroom houses and BMW M3s without so much as a high school diploma to their name.

So blame the retarded subprime mortgage market. Bloody septics

 

[tripleogstar]

i reckon it is virtually impossible to work as a trader at an investment bank if the only thing u can say to them is you have been profitable day trading or whatever from home. Nowadays it is much more complex. there were times when people without degrees had got in, my former manager got in like that. BUt that was 20 odd years ago. you definitely need a degree, you need to be computer literate (i.e Excel/VBA, c++, etc). Need to have all sorts of examples for bull**** questions that HR throw at you such as team work, initiative, motivation, knowledge of the markets. I mean, people think if they can make money from home prop trading they know everything there is to know about that particular market. For example, I have friends who day trade gilt futures, but do not have a clue about the CTD, gilt rolls, or basis trading. Market making is more complex than prop, and if you were to work for a bank, you are more than 95% likely to be a market maker, even if you THINk you are successful at prop trading.

 

[tripleogstar]

o yea and they will test you on numerical and verbal reasoning, so who ever started this thread, it should be 'Trading for AN investment bank'

 

[jiggly]

i reckon it is virtually impossible to work as a trader at an investment bank if the only thing u can say to them is you have been profitable day trading or whatever from home. Nowadays it is much more complex. there were times when people without degrees had got in, my former manager got in like that. BUt that was 20 odd years ago. you definitely need a degree, you need to be computer literate (i.e Excel/VBA, c++, etc). Need to have all sorts of examples for bull**** questions that HR throw at you such as team work, initiative, motivation, knowledge of the markets. I mean, people think if they can make money from home prop trading they know everything there is to know about that particular market. For example, I have friends who day trade gilt futures, but do not have a clue about the CTD, gilt rolls, or basis trading. Market making is more complex than prop, and if you were to work for a bank, you are more than 95% likely to be a market maker, even if you THINk you are successful at prop trading.

I can identify with this, its unfortunate that that is the way the world works in such a capacity because if you cut through all the bull**** the only thing that should matter is the bottom line.

regardless if you have a phd or a million programming languages under your belt, the end result is to make money

 

[GammaJammer]

I have a first degree, a masters degree, am an excel god and can write a bit of VBA. But I still don't reckon I'd get in these days. It really can be that tough.