Trading Coaches Who Are They ?

[Trader333]

stevet,

Your statement that:

.....all trainers are failed traders

This is a bit of a generalisation in my view and does not universally apply. In defence of this I would urge you to spend a day with Alan Rich and then make the same statement.

Anyone who has spent a day with him and watched him use his skill to trade the Nasadq will almost universally agree that he is an exceptionally talented trader who makes a large amount of money from trading and he is also a trainer. Whilst I agree with you in general it is not the case for every trainer.



Paul

 

[sandpiper]

Quercus,

You make some good points there imo. Believe it or not (and most won't since it's human nature), there are professional traders that get genuinely hacked off by the charlatans out there peddling rubbish and offer training/coaching in a limited attempt to redress the balance.

Also, as you say, priorities change, these guys do get older and want to take some time away from the screen.

Certainly Joe Ross is one example where I think his whole outlook changed after he was seriously ill. I don't believe that the time he takes out to do coaching and seminars in any way takes away from the fact that he IS a very good/profitable trader.

Lewis Borsellino is another guy who spent increasing amounts of time setting up training resources for aspiring traders (for the reason mentioned above). At the time he was spending more time running his hedge fund and less time on the cme floor. I don't think anyone would question his ability to trade either.

The other thing is that independent trading can be quite a "lonely" business for obvious reasons. I assume that stevet is a prop trader and so doesn't experience this side of it. It seems to me that for a few successful professional traders, running coaching sessions, seminars, chat rooms, or speaking at expo's (etc) is a way of retaining links with the real/outside world.

The bottom line is that people assume that because you train/coach/educate other traders that your method/system must be flawed. After all if it works and it's making you a mint why would you tell other people about it? People also think that methods/systems only retain their validity if a small number of traders know about them.

Both of these assumptions are obviously flawed.

BTW, you should keep an eye out for Joe Ross when he's next down in your neck of the woods.

 

[mma]

* but i assume you trade. Are you profitable? *

Of course , all traders are profitable. don't you know that ?

 

[mma]

* a) get a job in a trading company and perhaps the vetting system will save u persuing something you are not cut out to be*

Doesn't necessarily mean anything , a lot of company traders may be marginally profitable but stay employed coz they jack the right person's goolies.

the best traders don't get employed coz they won't fit the
* company political profile * , nothing to do with trading talent , that's why they trade for themselves.

c) do anything and everything for free to build up knowledge

Ain't no such thing as free .

 

[Finlayson]

I believe Sandpiper has hit the nail on the head.

there r obliviously genuine coaches out there & for varying reasons. I would guess the main reason is that people seem to want to share their knowledge.

U see it on this BB all the time .....people share what they believe to be the right thing to do, probably to re-enforce it in their own minds.

also if u think u have that holy grail then u just want to share it, kind of a human trait I guess...the ironic thing is that most wont believe it

''that which is not given away, is lost forever''

Jay

 

[FTSE Beater]

Certainly Joe Ross is one example where I think his whole outlook changed after he was seriously ill. I don't believe that the time he takes out to do coaching and seminars in any way takes away from the fact that he IS a very good/profitable trader.

<hr>

BTW, you should keep an eye out for Joe Ross when he's next down in your neck of the woods.

Hi Sandpiper.

I couldn't agree more. I'm pretty sure that Joe losses money when he travels and teaches etc.
I think Joe will be over again in mid-may

 

[Quercus]

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep my ears open!
Cheers
Quercus

 

[stevet]

Trader333

when i first came to this site there were some posters making comments that did not make sense to me - so i got into a chat with them - and i felt that though their approach to trading was naieve - theior easy going style and taking time to discuss the subject made me treat the apparent naiveity with kid gloves - but then after getting pm messages from them - and having it mentioned in passing that they could train me for a fee - the penny dropped - and i was royaly ****ed off at having wasted time chatting to someone who was just fishing for training patsies

i am not stupid and maybe i should have read the signs early of what they were up to - but on most trading forums this sort of stuff is not allowed - so i guess i ignored the warning signals

i am now real careful about being suckered in by trainers on here and normally ask someone right off if they are a trainer if i sense any illogic in their presentation

since T2W now activlyy promote the trainers on here ( they didn't a year ago, the trainers just lurked) i did ask T2W for confirmation that T2W had themselves had confirmation of the validity of the claims of the trainers on here and T2W confirmed they did not have any verificalion of the claims, but needed to market the trainers in order to make money for T2W

it did occur to me that as the trainers have been on here for a long time as far as i know - that possibly the owners of T2W might have gone on a course years ago and have made enough money by now from trading to support this site - but i guess that analysis must be wrong - or maybe they feel the site should be self supporting

i think personally that T2W is not an internet site but a brand -and connecting a brand to unsubstantiated claims by trainers is not a good way to bring value to a brand - but i am on here to learn and it seems free speech is allowed on here - so i appreciate the opportunity that T2W offers people like myself - so if they want to market trainers - let them get on with it - but at the same time i think it valid to have a different view point about training and training people to provide a balanced view point against some new members who appear on T2W and straight away start complimenting trainers

as it happens you seem a straight up guy/gal (dont know which) - and i felt i would give you the full heads up on my view

 

[Trader333]

stevet,

Any reason for posting this 5 times ? I got the message the first time thanks.

Your quote regarding T2W promoting trainers that they didnt 1 year ago, well I have always seen that Alan Rich was being promoted so there is no change there.

All I have said is that if you had watched Alan trade, as many on here have done, then you would see that he is a highly skilled Nasdaq trader and that he also trains people and that was all.

Whether you agree with his marketing methods was not the issue and whether everyone thinks he is a good trainer is also not the issue. But he does trade profitably (and no I dont have audited accounts I just watched him) and he does train people and that was all I had claimed.


Paul

PS I am male (the clue is that I sign off as Paul), and I wont be offering you any training which I am sure you will be delighted to hear.

 

[Simon]

Could've been short for 'Pauline' & I think the Arnie pic confirms your sexuality.

 

[Naz]

SteveT

If you're not happy with the site then leave.No one forces you to stay here and mention who pm'd you because it certainly wasn't me.

 

[EvaLiq]

steve, do you trade? and if you do could you please tell us what you trade and how you trade it?

Thanks,

Eva

 

[stevet]

Trader333

sorry about the 5 times - had problems postiing and i guess it did it five times

if you check the dates we joined - you will see i joined earlier than you - and at the time i first came on here the trainers were just lurkers

and most on the site were trading the dow with spreadbetting and making a fortune - so they said!

and when i talked about futures on here then - i think i caused a few heart attacks and felt like i was promoting the devil - so the site kinda passed into oblivon for me

then i was told the site had a better vibe now - which it does - which is why i am here now

i have never asked anyone on this site for proof of their trading prowess by asking them to post their p&l or whatever as i know that that it would be a pointless exercise and whatever they would post would prove nothing

but i can tell you that the trading business is not that big, there are not that many clearing brokers and not that many broker dealers and not that many retail brokers - and since most higher profile people tend to tell their story when they get accounts to see if they can get a better deal - some of what these higher profile people subsecquently do when trading gets chatted about over a beer - and it does open your eyes to the truths behind the myths

but - yep - i aint seen these guys trade - and if i did see them racking up dollars on a trading platform - i would still want my own data system running along side to make sure that what i was seeing on their system was real and not delayed data to give them an edge - and even then - like in any profession - i would be looking for a 3 yr p&l confirmed p&l

i personally wouldn't ask any trainer for this stuff anyway since i have no plans to use their services - but anyone who does want to use them might think they should see it

i repeat that i did ask the owners of this site if they had had proof of the profitable trading of the trainers - and they said no - and ironically i appreciated their direct and honest answer

if i was seeking work as a trainer i would expect to have to give my full cv and full p&l - not saying someone has to give that - just that it would kinda make sense if i wanted money from people on the basis that i was a successful trader

and maybe i should not say anything - i dont know - its hard enough to make a buck in life - so i dont begrudge anyone doing it - but i guess when i see apperent newbies come on here - maybe they are just plants to market trainers - i dont know - but like the person who was a school teacher and came on here today and said they had done a course, done 5 trades and want to recomend the trainer - its kinda hard for me not to respond - and i do think my point asking if they knew someone who could train me in a day to be a school teacher, head teacher etc kinda got across my logic for wanting to present the other side of the debate

by the way - re the gender thing - mma has just alerted us to the fact the some traders out there are not sure of the gender - so apart from checking if someone is a trainer or not - i now feel obliged to check get confirmation of their gender

 

[stevet]

Naz

hey - why so testy!

i thought you had a 40pt dow winner today - you should be well happy - as a fully fledged professional you must have had 5K on the line, but at least a K - so you are now up at least 40K and i think drinks should be on you! - and thats just from one of your trades today

think how much you might have lost if you had been helping out a newbie today or did you score the 40K and also help out a newbie!

 

[stevet]

EvaLiq

i trade mispriced derivatives and its cr*p - but thats my job

 

[options]

Stevet.
Do you trade with your own money?

 

[stevet]

options

no - prop co with profit split

 

[EvaLiq]

steve, can you elaborate a bit please? dont be defensive! i find it amazing that you seem to have a lot to say in response to other people's posts but if someone asks you you give out one liners!!!!

 

[stevet]

EvaLiq

sorry, but that is the specific terminology and states exactly what i do

what do you do and who for?

and by the way - up to now - i say what i want, when i want and how i want - but now i know you have joined the forum (again) - i will always check with you first to see if its ok

 

[zow]

Stupid question perhaps but why do you do it if it's cr*p?
Could take it easier, not trade so intensly for so many hours per day, or only 3-4 days per week, become an interior decorator, whatever......

I think EvaLiq (and I) are interested in which instruments exactly you trade, to begin with.

(sorry, is there some sort of history between you and EvaLiq?)