Trading and Emotions

[stevet]

there are trades to take every single day - i have never seem one day when it was not possible to make profitable trades - even the christmas to new year dead time

but of course that dont mean you can trade from market open to market close eveyday - but there is a limit of time that any market can trade in a tight range intra-day and the longer it trades a tight range intraday - the bigger the range extension is gonna be - and easier it is to take advantage of the trade

the only time i packed up shop was the moment 911 hit and I jumped on a plane to Madrid for a week, just so i would not be tempted to trade - but did go to the Madrid stock exchange and there were people there crying, i guess because of the emotion 911 caused coupled with the fact that they had got wiped out

the madrid stock exchange is a great building - they dont trade there anymore - but they have quote machines and stuff and investors meet there in the old exchange room to watch their stocks - worth a visit if you are in madrid

 

[options]

Have to agree with Stevet on the emotion side of things. In trading it shouldn't exist.
The more you do it the more emotionless it becomes. It's just a job with numbers after all.

Not saying you should trade 300 times a day to get over the emotion of trading. Nor that you should only trade once a fortnight to ease yourself in.

There is no time limit on getting your head right on this I'm afraid and it will only come to you in due course.

It's the first thing you come up against the moment you start trading. Most people start with too little capital. There's the 'fear' emotion. They get a few knocks and have trouble trading because they are already losing their hard earned money. Or even worse, they have a few wins and the 'greed' is on your shoulder. Jumps off right about the time you get hammered.
Just nature's way of saying that not everyone will be millionaires at this game.

It's always going to catch you out every once in a while, no matter who you are or how long you have ben trading for. You have to have the ability to keep it under lock and key for the most part.

The first time you drove a car by yourself was no easy feeling. Your first day in your first job, bit uncomfortable there.
What about your first day in senior school. That was unnerving because you wren't quite sure what to expect. After the day was over you put it behind you and did what all 1st years did.
That was to get beaten up by the 3rd years for the first few weeks of the term year.

Bit like trading in the markets really.

We all know what we should do when we trade, but sometimes we can't. It's certainly not how much knowledge you have picked up, or how much money you have that separates the winners from the losers. It's YOU.

 

[sidinuk]

Good post Options.

 

[mma]

Even so called experienced traders have emotional attacks . emotion is not limited to begginers - believe me , I have seen this with my own eyes.

A real method should take away emotion BUT I will not believe that a method without the regular use of SL's can do this - pure casino thrill a minute BULL !

The false concept of taking a daily wage from the market is negative emotion - the need to feel like a * winner * everyday - a loser's mentality. You can't force the market to give you something each day .

Overtrading IS and ALWAYS will be a major problem , more so for day traders - linked to need to feel a winner everyday, and therefore the need for revenge and MORE trades so that one can hit so called profit targets for the day . self delusive in the long run , HOWEVER you want to describe it.

Just LOOKING at the market , you can imagine a thousand profitable trades a day - easy . its means nothing to state this .

NO ONE can make winning trades every day.

Getting over the emotion means making a CONSCIOUS decision at some definite stage in your trading career.Many NEVER get to this stage - many of whom are on this BB.
It has little with * getting used to the job * or anything like that, it is a deep and personal issue , either you deal with it or you don't - happens actually in a few seconds.

And this happens before one even has a method . Decision first then develop the method , if it's other way around then it is BS . one is only kidding oneself that there is a system , especially when there is no SL .

NO SL = HOPING THAT THE TRADE STILL COMES BACK = EMOTION.

BAD BAD BAD

 

[Skimbleshanks]

NO ONE can make winning trades every day.

You were speaking for yourself, I presume.

 

[stevet]

if you cant turn a profitable p&l 4 days out of 5 - you are not a trader, simplictically since you need to trade a style that allows you to make money like that in order to earn a living from trading and if you arnt earning a living from it, you are not a trader

so if you are trading for any other reason, than earning a living at it - fine - but if you want to earn your living, you better make sure you trade with a methodology that can give you a sustainable income day in day out, dont matter if is a hundred bucks or thousands, just make sure you can earn that your methodolgy is at least capable of being profitiable 4 out of 5 days, and then work hard to get the methodology to provide that

mma has not been in the trading industry, so does not realise how many professionals trade in the US and all around the world and make money everyday, but he knows he cant do that - and to that extent he is an expert at his own trading capabilites and probably trades in relation to that expertise - which is exactly what he should do - know your limitations and trade with them - not against them

 

[mma]

* You were speaking for yourself, I presume. *

what ? you say you can make winning trades EVERYDAY !?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. enough said .

 

[mma]

To say that you CAN without doubt make profit 4/5 out of five ALL the time is nonsense .

so prove it or shut up o/w this going round and round again - you are going to say that you are profitable everyday of your life and many including myself will NOT believe you .

So unless you can show proof , this is a dead end conversation - I refuse to play this game . Like I say an emotional problem - the need to show the world how * great * one is - SAD .

EVERYONE on this BB considers himself a trader by profession . We don't have to work for some cheap bucket shop to prove our credentials . Most people who trade for others have NOT got the goolies to come out and do it on there own with their own money ! emotions again - negative ones .

I have worked in finance for nearly 10 years - so what , I learnt more on my own .

 

[Skimbleshanks]

what ? you say you can make winning trades EVERYDAY !?

Yes. Can't you?

 

[barjon]

oh dear skim, you're asking for trouble.

he'll be asking for a full set of audited daily accounts going back
ten years; a certificate from an independent notable that the
accounts are not false; a demand to post each and every trade
(in advance of course - probably before you've thought of it);
certified copies of your bank accounts and - worst of all - a demand
to show us your knitting patterns



good trading

jon

 

[neil]

oh dear skim, you're asking for trouble.

he'll be asking for a full set of audited daily accounts going back
ten years; a certificate from an independent notable that the
accounts are not false; a demand to post each and every trade
(in advance of course - probably before you've thought of it);
certified copies of your bank accounts and - worst of all - a demand
to show us your knitting patterns



good trading

jon

:cheesy:

 

[Skimbleshanks]

You're quite right barjon. So, to save myself all that work photocopying, scanning, getting affidavits, paying tax lawyers, and general blood-letting, I shall retract my statement in its entirety. Therefore, please consider me to have lied about being able to make a winning trade every day - I forgot that I don't trade on bank holidays, Saturdays or Sundays therefore my statement could not possibly have been true.

Just off to do my penance - 100 lashes should do the trick I think. :cheesy:

 

[alanb41252]

Knitting patterns huh ?

Might be of more use to me in trading than chart patterns. Think I'll take a look at my wife's cross stitching too but I might get over-emotional.

 

[jamus]

Maybe T2W should have a database where people post their authenticated records ( with details blanked out) if they choose to...Even then there will be some doubting Thomases

 

[ChartMan]

I have seen a couple of trading accounts of people that have winners EVERY day over a sustained period of months. That's not to say they don't have a few SMALL losers here and there. I can't speak from personal experience, but I see no reason why one cannot aspire to making a profit every single trading day.Some can, some can't because that's how it is .

 

[jsd]

the obvious goal for all is to make money.. to do that in the markets you need to become a TRADER. the ironic thing then is that MONEY is the by product of becomming a successful trader. thats what all people who stumble, feel that the markets is for them have to progress through. and it can often take years for people to stop focusing on the money and start focusing on becomming a TRADER, which means all eyes on YOURSELF.

jd

 

[Finlayson]

Well said JD & very true.

this thread started on good topic, 'emotions' & has started to break down as usual into a bit of a compare & conquer match.....nothing wrong with that as it makes for good reading........but obviously bringing out the very thing being discussed.

TRADER, which means all eyes on YOURSELF.

this is where a lot of people fall down as they r busy watching what other people r doing to much, I know it stopped me trading for a long time as when I started to watch what others were doing I questioned if what I was doing was correct. There seems to be a lot of ''this is how trading should be done'' on this site , which u would always expect, but this is nonsense.........there is no one way to trade........just the way that is correct for u, as long as u r succeeding.

what does it matter whether u can score everyday as long as over all u r getting the things u want & enjoying life. Trading success is all about emotions......one of the most successful traders I know is that way because they have completely conquered their emotions.......not because of their strategy or technical analysis.

Jay

 

[stevet]

i really feel that anyone who feels that their emotions affect their trading, needs to examine the basis of their strategy and their discipline in excercising their strategy

 

[Finlayson]

yes Stevet I believe u r right.

but emotions r a part of life.......it is biological. we all have emotional feeling's about most things whether we r aware of them or not, it is about how u control those emotions.

also u may have a base strategy, but also trade off gut feeling sometimes when certain events come up, for example the person who mentored me trades this way often.........he just acts on what he believes the probable outcome will be at that specific time, staying calm & controlled executing the trade, accepting the end result & then moving on. he is the most successful trader I have come accross. So I would say this is success in controlling the emotion u have about certain events

Jay

 

[mma]

whether one can pick winners EVERY SINGLE day is HIGHLY dubious .

What IS DEFINITE is that you CANNOT be profitable everyday , slightly different words - blows away the deception entirely .

Note : never said I wnated to see skim records , and never will , not interested but since she is so eager ? do she trade more than 40 quid a pnt REGULARLY ? BET she won't answer .