Tradergames: 50% poker / 50% trading

[roberk]

Hi all,
If you haven't looked at this new trading/gambling on-line site check it out.
www.tradergames.com
I joined 3 weeks ago and am hooked. I used to play on-line poker at partypoker when not trading but this is a traders dream.

You put in some money and play against 4 -8 other players using real time forex feed to place your playmoney trades. At the end (2 hours for the shortest games , 7 days for the longest) the one with the biggest pile wins the pot. I won a pot that was 570 pounds (real money) last week!


I especially like it that I can limit losses to what I pay to join a game.
Whereas trading direct a sudden move can mean one is down a whole lot.

I'd be interested hearing from other traders who have joined or traders who play poker to compare notes.

 

[roberk]

Yesterday I entered a £20 game (prize £150) and was doing well. Took an early lead with a USD/yen short and watched everyone else head south while I slowly worked up to about $2000. Then Hoagy came in with a trade and was soon approaching my level. The yen went a bit lower and looked like it might be faltering so I closed out my trade just after Hoagy closed his. I was sitting on $5450 and Hoagy on $4993.
The other 3 players were in heavy negative territory: this was the game after an hour and until about 45 minutes till the end. If things stayed like this I was sure to win.
Then the market trend started to reverse and skyline- who had been down about $50,000- was now rapidly gaining back money with a huge position in euro dollars.
I blinked. I took out a euro trade and then doubled it. The spread cost me $10,000 and then the market moved against me a couple of ticks.

At one stage skyline broker $3000 plus - and with one more tick would have won the game - but it never happened.
Hoagy toughed it out and won the game by simply staying out of the market after he closed the initial position. A lesson for trading real money too..?
http://www.tradergames.com/Results.aspx?viewtournamentid=2305&viewgameid=12193&viewplayerid=0

 

[GloballyRelaxed]

Superb idea and a good way of sorting out amongst your peers who the best trader is

My only gripe with the setup is that you can only use credit card to make a deposit otherwise would be all over this like a rash..

Hmmmmmm....maybe thats a good thing though.

 

[roberk]

It's excellent!
Why don't you ask them if you can wire funds in..

 

[GloballyRelaxed]

Tried that...its a no go...

Oh well............not to worry.

 

[roberk]

Is anyone interested in a private game on tradergames? Need 4 players and they give some good bonus promotion deals . Just pm or write a message here and I can make the game (all members can make games- but I spoke with them and they will put some money in the kitty for games I arrange)

 

[GotGold]

What is to stop 2 people working together?

First peson goes limit long on the most volatile contract. £50 in
Second person goes limit short on the same pair same amount. £50in

One of the 2 wins, share the profits minus £50 costs.

 

[roberk]

What is to stop 2 people working together?

First peson goes limit long on the most volatile contract. £50 in
Second person goes limit short on the same pair same amount. £50in

One of the 2 wins, share the profits minus £50 costs.

I play poker on-line as well, and collaboration is a problem. I reported two players to the poker site and received a pleasing response from their fraud department, detailing the investigation they carried out. They look at all the games each player has been in, check if they have an unusually high number when they are in the same game, look at each game to see if there might have been chip dumping etc. In other words they take complaints seriously and do ban any players suspected of fraud.
In the case of tradergames the tactic you mention would be pretty obvious to an investigation so they will soon get caught.

But what about the games before they are discovered?
I've played about 50 tournaments so far and haven't seen any evidence of anyone doing this . I'm sure it will happen sooner or later- greed being what it is-
However, most games require several buys and sells - mainly because the market is in a range about 80% of the time - and so the tactic you mention will only guarantee a win in the case of a strong breakout trend that lasts for the duration of the game.
Other times it could quickly put one of the players out of the money but leave the other one with only a slim advantage. So they gain a slight edge but considering that most games have only 4 players they are investing half of the pot to buy this edge. Add in the fact that the cheaters are likely to be not the most skilled forex traders and the edge is cut again.
p.s. my net winning (after subtracting entry fees)- are over 1500pounds so far.

 

[GotGold]

Roberk,

That was an informative and interesting reply, thanks a lot.

 

[JP1966]

Played it for the first 10 days it was operational but then people seemed to catch on the way to play. I only played it when the market was very quiet as obvioulsy making/losing (!) real money is a bit more important than playing for a few hundred pounds. I found the best strategy was not to trade. The markets were quiet and people just paid away spreads. By the end of the time period everyone was usually down and so at the end you would enter a tiny trade just to qualify for the pot! Not sure if that tactic would still work because after a while everyone seemed to be doing it. Might have anotherlook though!

 

[cj12]

Hi roberk

Very interesting site.Am I right in saying you got to trade 4 shorts and 4 longs within 2 hours of the competition.?

Also, they give you a 100,000 paper account, how much do you place when trading in these competition.per trade.


sun

 

[roberk]

Hi roberk

Very interesting site.Am I right in saying you got to trade 4 shorts and 4 longs within 2 hours of the competition.?

Also, they give you a 100,000 paper account, how much do you place when trading in these competition.per trade.


sun

HI sun,
No not 4 trades; the only thing is you must place at least one trade during a game. That trade could be the winning trade. I am a daytrader so I usually make over 5 or 6 in a 2 hour game but some players only make 1 or 2.
They give you 50 million playmoney for each game and you can buy and sell the whole amount each trade or a minimum of 1 million and any multiple in between. I tend to put on the full amount when I enter a trade and then scale out as the move looks to be ending.

When I first started playing I would scale in as well but many players watch what other players are doing and follow their moves. So if I am right - but only have small position- Joe will see my direction and follow with a full 50 million and quickly overtake me - frustrating!

 

[cj12]

Hi roberk

So you saying if you are a good trader some joe public could follow you. So the thing to do is put some foot soldiers in the market so to speak.with a low stake To fool them.

Do the other players now what stake you are placing.If so the foot soldier approach wont work. Im going to open an account Monday and have a go?

Thanks

sun

 

[roberk]

HI Sun,
Yes the other traders can know exactly what trade you make, but not the amount ,as soon as you place it because they can make you one of their favourites and get news of what you are doing, or they can look at the watch page, see the trades made and have a good idea of what you have done, including the exact size, (although if all traders enter positons near the same time it gets confusing).
Your 'foot soldier' faking move is a a good idea- might try that myself! It can still work becuase they think to get ahead of you by putting on a bigger position.

 

[cj12]

roberk

That's a shame they know the amount you stake. But you can confuse them by placing small stakes maybe. but they catch on to that In time.

So if one is good at trading, it would be still hard to make money, as the not so skilled would follow you moves. I give it a go anyway see how it goes

We chat more about this Monday.

Cheers

sun

 

[roberk]

I'll be looking out for you Sun
An attraction of the site for newbie traders is that they can follow the best players. It's like they are standing behind the pro traders screen watching what he does.: mentoring at no cost.
I don't mind that at all because finally a trader has to find their own methods. I belong to a couple of futures chatrooms and learn the techniques of the pros there - but only take a few of their trades as I grow to rely on my own methods.
I learn from every game too- it's like trading boot camp. I've traded almost every day for the last 2 years but I learn more from a 2 hour game than from 2 or 3 days of trading.
I thought I was an aggresive trader, but in fact find I am timid. I put on several trades every day, sometimes more than 10- but they are often small size- so I cover over my fear of trading by taking many small trades when I should be considering the odds more and varying size, even going all in on occasion.

The games give me confidence too, because in about 90% I am in positive territory for at least part of the game (although sometimes I go back into negative because I try a desperate move in the leader is way ahead); and so even if I finally come second or 3rd it reinforces confidence in my skill.

Also in daily trading I tend to either give up or go on a tilt if I make 2 or 3 bad trades in a row. One game I had last week I was $130,000 down on the leader. I felt like throwing it in, but kept watching, saw a bullfag developing and made a nicely timed short, eventually winning the game with only a minute to spare: well I had nothing to lose so it brought out the best.

And stop and reverse:　usually in daily trading I am ecstatic if I win, or down if I lose and have no interest in a stop and reverse. In the games I am learning how do do that- it is a whole 'nother level of trading and one that very few traders can master. I wouldn't be surprised if these gaming sites produce a new breed of aggressive and motivated traders。

 

[roberk]

roberk

That's a shame they know the amount you stake. But you can confuse them by placing small stakes maybe. but they catch on to that In time.

So if one is good at trading, it would be still hard to make money, as the not so skilled would follow you moves.

sun

Not so bad Sun, because there is a few seconds delay (I should have explained that before) for the platform to show the trades entered, enough for the trade to have moved a tick or two.

 

[cj12]

Hi

Roberk I have join the traders games. And I come across you name. I see you played the game. the game below that you won, what is you game plan, from what I see by the number of trades you place you are a scalper. is this correct

1 roberk 49 69,984
2 tafia007 35 32,769
3 skyline 5 (66,600)
4 biggcol 6 (202,800)

Also on your other game uncleFegg
won the game and i looked at the chart
and we had a nice trend going is this maybe
You lost this game as most scalpers lose
on trend days.Ho did UncleFegg get lucky
lol.all that said looks a good game.I be
Playing next week.


1 UncleFegg 6 116,073
2 skyline 15 103,648
3 IainMac 6 85,225
4 roberk 41 (34,230)
5 tafia007 10 (79,800)


On a 50,000,000 game what is you avr stake
Cheers

sun

 

[roberk]

HI Sun,
That wasn't you I just pipped in the closing seconds of the 180 pound game was it?

You're right, I am a scalper, hard habit to break after over a year daytrading the dax.
The stats are a little misleading though as I do scale out - so I might have done a couple of 50 milion trade but scaled out in bits.
I can't remember that game I lost, but yes if it was a trending day I tend to do worse than in a range, very perceptive.

 

[cj12]

Trader Games currently offers games based on the Foreign Exchange (FX) Markets. They will shortly be offering a variety of Games based on other types of financial instruments, such as indices, equities and commodities.

They have only been going for 6 months.Anyone with views on this new trading style.basically You trade against 4 to 8 other traders. Games start from 20 entry fee to 250. so if there is 4 players and you play a 100 pound game you take the pot of 400. Least you know how much you are risking and how much you going to win.


Sun