Trader training/learning

[4xpipcounter]

I've attached a chart that shows a chart of the GBP/USD--daily.
A proepr trading methodology needs to be able to not only discern a trend, but also the nature of it.
If you tried to get in on that dip before the reversal, then you would have lost. Simply put, you need to not only be able to know when a dip in a trend occurs, but when it is a reversal, also when it is a correction to something bigger. "The trend is your friend" is a cliche and not necessarily the truth.
I don't trade oil, but I do have some fun with it. I apply my methodology to it, because the commodity price on oil is always relative to price at the gas pump. When oil was at 71.00, I told my wife it is time to fill up all the cars, lawn mowers, etc, because our prices are going to move up 25 cents per gallon, because oil is headed to 76.00 quick (confirmed in my thread). If someone was trading it, then it would help in undertanding the hard bounce it took, and the return to that level, and then the bounce again.
The sellers of these books and online classes are usually filled without worn out stereotypes, and their theories seemingly look good, because they are very good in using hindsight. How many of these authors and teachers do you know actually implement their trades live in the active process of their methodology they are trying to teach? That's what makes any methodology effective is watching the implementation of it, and the effective gains it puts in your bottom line. This is why a book will always demonstate how something willl work, but its practical application becomes a different story.
If you don't have enough money to trade the small losses, then either you should not be trading or you are doing something wrong. You could be over-trading as in putting too many lots on one trade. If your account is so small that it cannot withstand even the smallest positioning, then you are not ready to trade for simple lack of funds.
The amount you need to trade with successfully is not something quantative. It should be based on the percentage of margin risk. As an example, you could have $100, and trade 1 microlot. There would be plenty of room for margin of error. Yet, you could have $10,000 and trade 5 lots, and your whole account would be bankrupt after a 200-point move against you. Proeprly margining your trades is part of the completeness of the method you choose to trade with.
If you cannot get the prices and charts off your own platform, then they are not worth trading or considering to begin with. You have to have a wherewithal to make intelligent trading decisions. Just by looking at price history will not supply that for you.

Thanks for the prompt reply. I am sorry if I did not make sense. I was trying not to make my post too long but did so anyway.
Rather than trying to predict the bottom or top of a market so you can buy low and sell high - trend trading goes with the trend.
The book demonstrates that it does work. I will give you the example of Nymex oil. It's recent high has been around $83. Low - $75. So when it broke through $75 I went short like the theory states. As it moved down at the end of each day I moved my stop accordingly. My stop was 300 points away. It went as low as $70.24. My stop was moved to $74.00 the day before. Anyway, it started to go up and my stop was triggered. It then went as high as $76? and has come down again. So I could have had 450 points profit but only got 100 points. The point is that you have to take small profit/losses and wait to catch the big trends. The problem with this at this time for me is that I do not have enough money to take the 'small' losses. Incidentally, how much do you think one should put in to trade successfully?
I really believe that it will work but need to get historical prices for the commodities. I can get the indices and Forex from yahoo. Any ideas? This is so that I can work out my stops.
I hope this makes sense? Any advise welcome.
Thanks again.

 

[4xpipcounter]

That's fine if you want to disagree. That's what these forums are for is for having good dialogue if you agree or disagree.
Trading is a due process:
1. Develop a methodology, and then test it on a demo account the effectiveness of it.
2. Develop proper margining skills. This is the point where you trade with the same percentage on your demo like you would on a real account, because it is the precentage of gains you are concerned with, not the dollar amount.
Up to this point, if everything is proven effective over an extended period of time, then you are ready to open a real account. This is where the mental part begins. It is easy to stick to your methodological principles on a demo account, but with real money fear and greed tend to kick in. If the trader passes the test here, then he should be on his way to Traders' Heaven.
Without taking the proper steps to opening a live account, it can prove to be a very expensive lesson. Even $2-10 per trade adds up. If the proper steps have not been taken, then the money will be lost, so why guarantee yourself to lose the money?

Your arithmetic eskewed. 5% per month does not equal 30% per year.

"10 mins a day and you can earn 5% a month
use this little known secret to bag yourself an easy 30% return every year
Quit the rat race and spend more time with your loved ones"
You presented here nothing but idle rhetoric and get-rich-quick schemes. Trading takes more than 10 minutes per day. It is not for lazy people. I seriously question what it is you have to sell in making claims like that. They are the kind of claims the newbies need to turn a deaf ear to.
Let me also say, respectfully that 5% per month is peanuts, and compounded over one year is approximately 85%, not 30%.
I spent countless days, weeks, and months earning nothing, while learning the ropes and paying my dues. Was it worth it? You better believe it was. I started trading in July 2004. I made nothing my first whole year. Today, I have a trading methodology I wouldn't trade for anything. It knows how to get me pips, and lots of them.
Here's also a paradox in your statement. You don't seem to have a problem with someone losing small amounts of money while learning to trade, but have something against working for nothing days, weeks' and months and making nothing. I'd rather work for nothing than pay to work.
Let me also make another point. If the trader has to put his last dollars in a trading account, then he is not ready. I get e-mails all the time from people who are stressed to the max because they have their last few dollars in a trading account that they are losing on. IMPO, all traders need to have an equi-amount of liquid cash as in their trading account. A lot of people don't want to believe that, but then they pay later for being in a hurry to want to strike it rich. There is no doubt you can be rich in trading, but take the proper steps and shun all the schemes.

Pips, I'll disagree with you here because I think the best way to learn is to always play with REAL money but very small, perhaps risking £2 - £10 per trade.

The problem risking demo money is it just doesn't matter and that can cause people to learn without the proper discpline. Also, most demo accounts are far too large so people will be using say a $100k account but when they start trading with proper money their account might be £5,000 so they're going to be oput of sync.

The trick is anything is to lose a small amount of money for the first several months or even a year or 2 while you're learning. Then when done deposit proper money. The small money that will be (probably) lost is designed to keep you in the game and not get blown out.

Trouble is the majority of people want it all today and don't seem to realise this is a very tricky game which takes time to learn. That's the sole reason the conmen and sharlitans in this game can make good cash because they 'sell the dream' which people love to hear, ie

10 mins a day and you can earn 5% a month
use this little known secret to bag yourself an easy 30% return every year
Quit the rat race and spend more time with your loved ones

That's what people want, and they don't want the truth, ie

Are you willing to spend countless hours/days/weeks/months and even years without earning anything
Are you willing to put your mind through hell to get to the promised land
Are you willing to have sleepless nights because you think you'll never be able to turn an overall profit

 

[4xpipcounter]

Jason, judging by your questions and the comments you have made throughout your thread, you're not ready to trade, yet. Take time to develop a methodology on a demo account. Show consistent gains on it, then you might be ready to go live.
No one has the perfect answer for your dilemma. I will tell you what most newbies and unsuccessful traders don't want to hear, but it is the absolute truth. Take time to work for free. Take time to develop a methodology. Do different tests. Practice, practice, practice. OTT, you are grasping and hoping to hit it by dumb luck. This is not gambling, but a career profession. Dcotors go to school for 8 years and pay huge amounts of money. I am asking you to go to school for one year, maybe a little more, and spend no money. When you are done, you can make more money than doctors make, while sitting in the comfort of your home with your dog on your lap in your pajamas (my scenario right now). OTOH, you cna also work while sitting on your boat at the lake with your laptop in your lap. Just pay your dues and shun all the idle rhetoric and con schemes.

I am really stuck in that case as I do not know what method to test and then follow...? any ideas?

 

[anley]

Your arithmetic eskewed. 5% per month does not equal 30% per year.

"10 mins a day and you can earn 5% a month
use this little known secret to bag yourself an easy 30% return every year
Quit the rat race and spend more time with your loved ones"
You presented here nothing but idle rhetoric and get-rich-quick schemes. Trading takes more than 10 minutes per day. It is not for lazy people. I seriously question what it is you have to sell in making claims like that. They are the kind of claims the newbies need to turn a deaf ear to.
Let me also say, respectfully that 5% per month is peanuts, and compounded over one year is approximately 85%, not 30%.
I spent countless days, weeks, and months earning nothing, while learning the ropes and paying my dues. Was it worth it? You better believe it was. I started trading in July 2004. I made nothing my first whole year. Today, I have a trading methodology I wouldn't trade for anything. It knows how to get me pips, and lots of them.
Here's also a paradox in your statement. You don't seem to have a problem with someone losing small amounts of money while learning to trade, but have something against working for nothing days, weeks' and months and making nothing. I'd rather work for nothing than pay to work.
Let me also make another point. If the trader has to put his last dollars in a trading account, then he is not ready. I get e-mails all the time from people who are stressed to the max because they have their last few dollars in a trading account that they are losing on. IMPO, all traders need to have an equi-amount of liquid cash as in their trading account. A lot of people don't want to believe that, but then they pay later for being in a hurry to want to strike it rich. There is no doubt you can be rich in trading, but take the proper steps and shun all the schemes.

Read my post again without scanning it and you'll soon see that I wasn't highlighting how I feel or operate, I was highlighting how the conmen talk and sell their trash.

 

[4xpipcounter]

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying or trying to get across.
Are you still saying that it is okay for a newbie to begin lsoing money on a real account, as opposed to paying their dues as I outlined?

Read my post again without scanning it and you'll soon see that I wasn't highlighting how I feel or operate, I was highlighting how the conmen talk and sell their trash.

 

[bullmarkets]

I personally don't agree that you learn to trade by surfing the internet for materials. I mean, how will you even know where to begin and what to select?? It's an endless pit of contradictory information out there. You'd be wasting tons of money, effort and time making mistakes you could avoid if you had some decent training.

But Greg Secker...? You must be joking! Do you want to learn trading, or b.s. marketing?

 

[leonice]

Nobody successful will probably take you one on one. Consider learning to trade by yourself. Learning part is not that difficult. Applying that knowledge, where one on one can't help you anyway, is.

 

[bullmarkets]

Nobody successful will probably take you one on one. Consider learning to trade by yourself. Learning part is not that difficult. Applying that knowledge, where one on one can't help you anyway, is.

That's a pretty narrow generalization.
There are top professionals in any field who take on apprentices, teaches newbies and make efforts to spread out their skills. Then why not in trading? They don't do this because they need the money. They may want more employees, or seek fame and just want their particular technique to get a name for itself. :smart:
The idea that no one wants to train someone or they must not be skilled enough, is a rather ridiculous argument to me. If this was the case, none of our sciences or IT skills would be known to anyone but the creators.

 

[Tradingkid09]

I personally don't agree that you learn to trade by surfing the internet for materials. I mean, how will you even know where to begin and what to select?? It's an endless pit of contradictory information out there. You'd be wasting tons of money, effort and time making mistakes you could avoid if you had some decent training.

But Greg Secker...? You must be joking! Do you want to learn trading, or b.s. marketing?

I totally agree with this. I wasted a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to trade on my own. It really helps to have some targeted training.

 

[shewolf]

There are lots of former "employees" at IBs and other financial institutions that get out of this business as soon as they leave their employment. Why? This is because they dont know much beyond the edge that they have been taught and had access to.

There will be the odd ones that just want to change career, but most cant hack private trading.

Actually there is a thread on the forum that has a documentary that covers some of these issues.
.

Can you show a link to the thread you are talking about. I have done a search but have not been able to find anything relevant

 

[Club]

I have been trading a little while, and I have realised that you dont really need help to learn HOW to trade (there are loads and loads of strategies, lessons, technical breakdowns of indicators for free everywhere on the internet).

But I do think a new trader (well I do!) needs SUPPORT, I guess a better word would be mentoring, rather than instruction. Someone to ask if what you did is right, or wrong, or how to make it better. Thats why I dont think you can really learn to trade from a book, you need someone to look at what you are doing while you are doing it, or on the flip side to watch some one do it live.

 

[Superfagius]

Please is anybody able to tell me if Global Trading Community is a real prop trading firm of a fake one?

Thank you!!

 

[Club]

I dont know, but their website needs some 'luvin! Its appalling! all that money and no one to fix / make their site!

(can you tell I work in online web dev ? )

 

[avtarsaini]

Morning all.
Has anyone heard about Dave Turner? He runs trading/forex courses? Any experience of his courses?
Thanks.
Av.

 

[Tradingkid09]

Morning all.
Has anyone heard about Dave Turner? He runs trading/forex courses? Any experience of his courses?
Thanks.
Av.

I have not heard of him, I have used Nial Fuller though, he has a good price action trading course if that is your cup of tea.

 

[flecourt]

I have not heard of him, I have used Nial Fuller though, he has a good price action trading course if that is your cup of tea.

Good afternoon all, thank you for your interested comment about trading. I would like to give up my work, I save money foe 18 month to pay bill moorage etc.. And I would like to take a course which help me give some tools to set up my own trading strategy. Could you please recommend any course please? I m interested about this course futex Proprietary Stock Market Trading | Trading Floor Training, I would like to know if you could give some advice on it. Thank you for your help fab

 

[FUTEX]

Before taking a course, the best advice by far is to GO AND VISIT the people. If they make claims, make them prove them. Ask to speak to those who have been on the training. If you are hogwashed simply decline... I hope this is unbiased and helps.

 

[pboyles]

Good afternoon all, thank you for your interested comment about trading. I would like to give up my work, I save money foe 18 month to pay bill moorage etc.. And I would like to take a course which help me give some tools to set up my own trading strategy. Could you please recommend any course please? I m interested about this course futex Proprietary Stock Market Trading | Trading Floor Training, I would like to know if you could give some advice on it. Thank you for your help fab

I would advise against that course of action, particularly giving up any current employment. The chances of success are very small indeed, perhaps 1 in 20 or 30 according to people who have been through such schemes. As for Futex I have asked them about their success rate for their paid training course. They said they don't keep statistics on that type of thing so you can draw your own conclusions.

 

[pboyles]

Good afternoon all, thank you for your interested comment about trading. I would like to give up my work, I save money foe 18 month to pay bill moorage etc.. And I would like to take a course which help me give some tools to set up my own trading strategy. Could you please recommend any course please? I m interested about this course futex Proprietary Stock Market Trading | Trading Floor Training, I would like to know if you could give some advice on it. Thank you for your help fab

Here is an interesting thread about one of these companies. You will see the success rate is mentioned somewhere along with someone else commenting on how many people that were 'hired' were still making no money.

I know the idea of trading for a living is attractive, however the reality is not so attractive. Of course the guys that are selling you training courses will tell you different but the chances of success are very low indeed.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...graduate-training-program-26.html#post1677964

 

[bryt-molina]

If you can do it with a full time job, why not try it 1st? The article "Trading When in a Full Time Job" might help you find a suitable way to learn while still have the full time job.