Trader Dante new course

NVP said:
A good mentor needs to prove his students are profitable

Full stop
N
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True, but anyone looking for a mentor needs to do his/her due diligence first and ask the mentor to prove consistent profitability.

In this business, teaching TA, FA, money management etc.. is easy. Executing it consistently and profitably is not.
 
NVP said:
Possibly.........but he cannot hope to get people to replicate his innate ability to trade

Poor clones at best.......and a 99% clone may not cut it. ?

Under standard business practices these days would he guarantee profits and or give every penny back if they fail ??

N
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So the corollary to what you say is that every successful trader must be self taught.

Rather like artists I think that the really top traders have an indefinable extra over and above good and sound technique. Nonetheless that good and sound technique is the essential foundation and why artists study under old masters to hone it. Why should traders be any different?
 
DowJones said:
Not to be rude but "losing nerve" and deciding you're "fed up with the daily grind" are traits of beginners in retail trading, not professionals.

Any half-decent professional trader obviously has a lot to offer aspiring traders, but they're not gonna share their hard-won knowledge, skills, experience and methodologies with beginners with nothing to offer (and certainly not for some chump change). Why should they?
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For the vast majority of professionals obviously - but not necessarily all.

You might say the same about any top professional. Why should a top footballer take time out to coach aspiring footballers and teach them a few tricks of the trade? Sometimes not even for chump change.
 
DowJones said:
If a premier league footballer coached some kid one afternoon, he's not really eroding his competitive advantage. In the trading example, teaching your profitable methodology in a zero (actually negative) sum environment, you are. Herein lies the difference.

The reason so many failed traders teach is twofold:
1) They are failed traders
2) They have nothing of value to teach
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I don't know if they are failed traders, or not. Some of them are probably very successful. The problem is that they are unable to pass along to the student that spark that has made them successful. It may be an intuition because, lets face it, day trading, at least to me, is a random thing, but you have to have a percentage of instinct.

And you have to have it consistently.

Random luck is what happened to me this morning when I shorted GU. Luck? Of course. I had the wrong chart up on the screen. I meant to short something else.

I pressed the wrong button at the right time, Both you and I know that I won't get away with that for very long- maybe never -and yet, that is what novice traders want to learn how to do.
 
DowJones said:
If a premier league footballer coached some kid one afternoon, he's not really eroding his competitive advantage. In the trading example, teaching your profitable methodology in a zero (actually negative) sum environment, you are. Herein lies the difference.

The reason so many failed traders teach is twofold:
1) They are failed traders
2) They have nothing of value to teach
Click to expand...


Absolutely.

I cut no slack for trainers who are not consistently profitable at their trading, and so need an additional income to make up their DD in the rest of the year. We all face this or might at some point, but who wants to be sold a methodology marketed as a route to financial independence that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't and is likely to leave a need for a second job?

Inconsistent profitability isn't a sign of failure, but selling a car that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't is a questionable business policy, even if marketed honestly.
 
you cannot teach others because you cannot teach to have a mind set that will flow with the market, maybe you can, but close supervision is required.

A mind set able to flow with the market is an unconventional one, the one we use in our normal environment cannot be transported into the market environment successfully.

Yes, you can teach others the easy part but they do not work by themselves without that mind set.
 
It's people that are profitable not systems per se. The world's best golfing coach couldn't make me a champion though he might improve me a bit; so why should a trading coach (even if he is consistently profitable) be able to guarantee success for his students? If you haven't got the nous to DIY train then maybe you'll never be a brilliant trader. It seems to me that the Go-getters in most walks of life arrive there because they've got that something extra in themselves which they recognise and exploit.
 
0007 said:
It's people that are profitable not systems per se. The world's best golfing coach couldn't make me a champion though he might improve me a bit; so why should a trading coach (even if he is consistently profitable) be able to guarantee success for his students? If you haven't got the nous to DIY train then maybe you'll never be a brilliant trader. It seems to me that the Go-getters in most walks of life arrive there because they've got that something extra in themselves which they recognise and exploit.
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So when someone joins a reputable trading firm or bank they are just told to get on with it and train themselves with no relevant guidance offered?
 
DowJones said:
This is a very valid point. As tar points out, risk adjusted returns are key (something that 99.9% of retail traders know nothing about).
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yes. I remember seeing a program about of of the crashes and the analyst being interviewed stated thats where the dead bodies are hidden. Really stuck with me and having run enough demo accounts i saw what can happen
 
barjon said:
So when someone joins a reputable trading firm or bank they are just told to get on with it and train themselves with no relevant guidance offered?
Click to expand...


That's fair comment for the professional sector and I should have made it clear that I was speaking for amateur/retail where it's difficult to know whether a trainer is any good or not. My point is that to make progress in the non-professional sector you're going to have to almost certainly DIY. Since the Internet age has made the mechanics of trading easy and cheap, then if the trainers are at all half good (and like in most areas there will be a proportion that are rubbish) we need to understand why supposedly only 5% of amateur traders are successful. Even if the amateur success rate (consistently profitable over at least 2 years?) is as high as 20% then it strikes me that the failure of the remaining 80% is not down to training but to the likelihood that most people are not cut out to be successful traders. Do most people persist in the hope that they will eventually make it? A laudable aim but is it realistic? I bet the banks or pro firms soon dump you if they think you are no good but who can bring themselves to do this self-infliction in the amateur environment?

I believe that the fundamentals of trading are easily grasped by most people and any competent trainer should be able to instil them. But not so with the psychologicals – and isn't this just where there is an industry persuading punters that they can master themselves providing they cough up large sums of money. If you have it in you to be successful there is plenty of instruction available on this site and elsewhere - including NLP and psychos. If you can't DIY analyse and debrief your results then I suspect you have poor prospects. It seems to me from the comments on this site and elsewhere that most people just can't face up to the reality of either changing their bad trading habits or admitting that they don't cut the mustard. After all, the actual mechanics of trading are simple aren't they?
 
Some great comments on here from all contributors

Going to read them all again because I have to admit I agree with Malaguti and Tar more maybe then DJ and Tomorton and the point Tar made about it not being just a black or white scenario is so true - all humans are different - all traders are different some private traders I know make excellent returns - but also sell their skills - it actually improves their own performance levels etc - a typical example being Charlie Burton ( one of the guys featured on the BBC trading series ).

When you get to full time and are trading day in - day out - its so boring - being in the zone is ingrained in your DNA after about 3 years . You need staff etc - but if you have a trading record of over 5 years along with the odd year with no losing days - even better . Photographic memories and marketing skills along with an empathy with newbie traders etc seems to be a prerequisite.

Trouble is if you do it properly - courses need to last 6 or 12 months plus to get any newbie to say a average break even / profitable type trader level - and then one to one stuff over say 3 months is going to cost a newbie easily over £10k - and then you think how many new traders are prepared to pay that amount to save say 2 or 3 years off the own trading journey.

With regards to integrity and morals - this is the Finance / Money industry - we are dealing with Banksters and Bar Stewards etc at all levels - I am all the side of the retail industry - even though the Banksters help me make my money This needs to be taught to all newbies so that they know from day one they will be swimming in shark infested waters and so dont trust anyone and remember only 10 -20% of them will probably make it.

Surely if you include that in your teaching - then you can hold you head up and say you are helping the retail trading industry and saving 1000's from losing all their money in the markets.

I would love to know the latest churn rates on new traders - In the last decade it seemed if there was like 50 -100 k entering the "game" every year and probably 10 -30k leaving it.

Nowadays - I have not got a clue - and not really bothered as hope to retire within the next 2 or 3 years

Regards


F
 
He is taking the **** at "hindsight traders" ... lol
 
This is a very funny video by Trader Dante - quite David Brent isn't it?

Good ol Dante - we used to work at Futex together opposite Nav Sarro- the $40 million trader now being hounded by the FBI.

Simon Maelzer
 
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