Best Thread The Options edge (Writing Vs Buying)

[SOCRATES]

Soccy baby



But what exactly are we discussing, Options, and the probabilities associated with Buying/Selling, or, are we discussing your and CYOF fantasies?

If Options, then I'm here, ready to play.
If your fantasy life, and secret trading clubs, which seems to be the only topic that you and your puppy are capable of talking at any length about, then frankly who actually is even vaguely interested?

jog on
d998

Listen ducatti, I am very busy. I don't have the time or patience to engage in silly tit for tat argument. You have read what I posted for your benefit. Read it again until you get the drift or do something else.

 

[ducati998]

Soccy baby

Of course you are too busy to discuss Options. How rude of me, maintaining such a varied and convoluted fantasy life must be very time consuming.

My bias, or opinion, was clearly stated on the *questionaire* provided by your puppy with regards to Buying/Selling.

An analysis of the *greeks* and probabilities calculated from the inputs will clearly demonstrate that under any given conditions, the probabilities can lie with either strategy.

The posted example, was the chance for you fantasy artists to have a go, and provide something tangible.

Of course, that almost guarantees that nothing but fantasy will spew forth in a torrent of utter nonsense.

jog on
d998

 

[Profitaker]

Thank you Grant, for your reply.

Yes, there is something more. But, first we need to see more reply to my trade and my posts from the others. Profitaker, do you want want add your comments in relation to my posts at this point in time, or are you just happy to lurk in the background?

The more that join in the debate, the more interesting it will get :idea:

CYOF

I'm interested in discussion options, and options trading, nothing else. Furthermore, I have no intention of wasting any of my time on you, as a waste it will surely be. Kindly take your diatribe elsewhere.

 

[ducati998]

Xup

The second method of gaining an edge, is by using the strategies that your advocating. I (like the majority for I am indeed a stupid fool) believe that the writer has no inherent edge over the buyer from a purely mathematical perspective. It is possible to obtain an edge, but that edge, is obtained through appropriate risk management.

Edge is a complex subject, and perhaps goes a little further than just basic mathematics, for example the psychological benefits of high win rates shouldn't be underestimated, and might be considered a component part of a traders "edge", writing may provide you with greater flexibility, you may have a closer relationship with your broker, plus a million and other little things that all add up to form part of an edge, but thats a matter best discussed elsewhere.

Some examples of a tangible *edge*
*buying/selling @ bid/ask [do not transact the spread]
*zero brokerage
*speed of execution [relevant to multiple legs execution]
*Types of strategies that can be implemented
*Net Capital
*Margin requirements, or availability.

Intangible edges;
*higher degree of knowledge & understanding with regards to risk [assumption, management]
*training & backup of professional firm
*risk manager to monitor positions
*psychological apptitude to assumption of risk
*psychological apptitude to management of risk

I agree, mathematically, there is no inherent *edge* with regards to Buy/Sell under any market conditions. Conditions, and pricing will require adaptation within strategies to obtain the theoretical edge sought.

jog on
d998

 

[SOCRATES]

CYOF

I'm interested in discussion options, and options trading, nothing else. Furthermore, I have no intention of wasting any of my time on you, as a waste it will surely be. Kindly take your diatribe elsewhere.

I am directed to inform you that the committee of five do not approve of you at all.

Out of the seven questions you have only got at best four of them right and that is scraping it.

So I am sorry to tell you that you do not make the grade at all.

For you to be approved as a writer in any event you have to get all of them right.

Additionally the answers to the further four questions relating to categories of risk reward put to you is awaited but your failure to respond correctly disqualifies you in any event from the activities you crave as the requierements are very stringent.

Incidentally CYOF is not currently a member of the committee of five.

As you have unwisely opted to put both of us on ignore, perhaps someone here will give you the good news.

And a good evening to you.

 

[ducati998]

Soccy baby

I am amazed that T2W actually allow you to post.
Such posts must seriously bring into question the credibility of the forum as a centre for intelligent discussion in regard to the financial markets.

Your continual outpouring of fantastical nonsense on all threads that you participate seems to have no bounds.

jog on
d998

 

[SOCRATES]

Soccy baby

I am amazed that T2W actually allow you to post.
Such posts must seriously bring into question the credibility of the forum as a centre for intelligent discussion in regard to the financial markets.

Your continual outpouring of fantastical nonsense on all threads that you participate seems to have no bounds.

jog on
d998

It's got nothing to do with you ducatti.....nothing at all...since you are not profitaker.

Just mind your own business and keep on topic on this thread.

And leave your personal insults out of it or I will submit a formal complaint to the mods.
And he will not read this anyway as he has put me on ignore, to his loss....

 

[ducati998]

It's got nothing to do with you ducatti.....nothing at all...since you are not profitaker.
Just mind your own business and keep on topic on this thread.And leave your personal insults out of it or I will submit a formal complaint to the mods.
And he will not read this anyway as he has put me on ignore, to his loss....

Profitaker has already stated his intentions viz. this thread, and they are to only discuss Options with the certificated sane members of this forum.

If you could actually post anything remotely *on topic* then we could get down to business.
But of course, you live in this fantasy world, and you wouldn't recognise an Option if it mugged you in the high street.

Every post that contains references to your fantasy trading combine, are an insult to my intelligence, but being medical, I am willing to spend time with the neurologically impaired.

jog on
d998

 

[SOCRATES]

Profitaker has already stated his intentions viz. this thread, and they are to only discuss Options with the certificated sane members of this forum.

If you could actually post anything remotely *on topic* then we could get down to business.
But of course, you live in this fantasy world, and you wouldn't recognise an Option if it mugged you in the high street.

Every post that contains references to your fantasy trading combine, is an insult to my intelligence, but being medical, I am willing to spend time with the neurologically impaired.

jog on
d998

So nowadays it is not motorbikes it is nutcases instead ? Very well carry on then, but don't butt in and try to derail this thread please. We know exactly what it is we are talking about, but in a prudently veiled fashion between us in the know, so as not to give away priceless information, which is what you would like. If that serves to frustrate and annoy you...tough...go and post somewhere else.

 

[ducati998]

Soccy baby

It may have escaped your notice, but, if you wish to keep your *priceless* information secret, then simply don't post, and absolutely no information will leak.

However, your intention, driven by your pathology, is simply to be the centre of attention.
Of course, by indulging you with responses, I feed that requirement, but as the market has just closed, this will just have to satisfy your cravings for attention until tomorrow.

Possibly you might be able to find a novice text in the interim, so that you might join the conversation at an introductory level?

jog on
d998

 

[ZEPPO]

Ducati

With all due respect, please read the title of this thread again! Try reading it 6 times if need be, until you fully understand it.

The topic is on traders and NOT on the number of contracts.

WHO HAS THE EDGE?

THE WRITER WITH 1-5ML CONTRACTS OR THE BUYER WITH 1-5ML CONTRACTS.

YOU HAVEN'T REPLIED TO MY POST ON 10 PEOPLE ENTERING THE BETTING SHOP WITH CASH IN THEIR POCKETS, AND ONLY 2 ARE WINNERS. WHY DONT WE HAVE 5 WINNERS AND 5 LOSERS?

THERE ARE OVER 2ML PEOPLE THAT BET EACH DAY ON HORSES & DOGS IN THE UK. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THERE ARE ALSO 2ML WINNERS. THE SAME THING HAPPENS WITH OPTIONS TRADERS.

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT IF 500 TRADERS LOSE THERE HAS TO BE 500 WINNERS?

IF YOU BELIEVE THIS, THEN I SUGGEST YOU STOP TRADING TODAY :idea:

OH, AND THIS ADVICE GOES TO ALL MEMBERS HERE AT T2W


I put it in the CAPITAL LETTERS in the hope that you finally understand what the topic on this thread is - writers vs buyers - not the size of contracts.

KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING are the two keys to successful trading in the derivative markets. However, If you dont understand properly, then you will never gain the knowledge, period. Common sense I would have thought :!:

Hi CYOF,
So that is? You want to know whos has the edge? My, why don't you ask Profitaker?
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=16875&page=1&pp=18
Ah! Damn... he doesn't debate those things...
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=16875&page=2&pp=20
Which make me wonder... Why on earth do you participate in these threads, Profitaker? I have a hellish temper and sometimes lose it, but whenever I can, I help, as you can see from my posts.
As for yours, I see that either you are disconsiderate, as with me, ignoring my points, or you downright insult other people, indirectly, of course...I have seen this from past posts of yours, anybody who does not believe me, check it!
I had a disagreement with Grant, at the end of the day, that is what this forum is about - debate and exchange of ideas, but he had the good grace to wish me luck in my exam...learn from a Gentleman!
Yes, mate, don't debate, as a matter of fact, why don't you stay out of the forum entirely? It is not you wisdom I contest, but your attitude!
About your wisdom...you are good with the "Greeks", aren't you? So, as far as I am concerned, you may go to Hellas - that's Greece in Hellenic, or Greek; nice sunshine over there, I know, a friend of mine spent his honeymoon there.
If you are to worried from a health point of view, say, you fear gas poisoning due to a faulty gas pipe, then why not go to Lanzarote? I recommend Puerto del Carmen, wher eyou can sit in the Waikiki pub, sipping some gorgeous cocktails...then, you may cross the road and peep on the beach, where girls go topless...I know, I used to live there (my family still does).
Frankly, I do not know what this will do to your trading, but it will mightily improve your sense of humour (or lack of it) and as a result, your manners!
For the benefit of all concerned, as you are wise...LEARN SOME MANNERS!
Eduardo

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Dblade,

You have said your goodbye so I hope you now make that permanent and DO NOTpost
to me again, as you have nothing of substance to offer to anybody. You are preventing a good debate, so it is better that you are out of it.

Second time pal . . .

I've demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt (anyone disagree?) that your writing style is radically different from earlier postd by CYOF.

Moreover, the post from CYOF (as was) alluded to a trading history totally different to the one you are implying.

Ergo : You are not the same person.

For the second time (the current) CYOF . . .

"So to the person pretending to be CYOF, are you the banned member known as Bulldozer?"

"Yes" or "No" , it's not a difficult question to answer is it?

 

[SOCRATES]

Hi CYOF,
So that is? You want to know whos has the edge? My, why don't you ask Profitaker?
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=16875&page=1&pp=18
Ah! Damn... he doesn't debate those things...
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=16875&page=2&pp=20
Which make me wonder... Why on earth do you participate in these threads, Profitaker? I have a hellish temper and sometimes lose it, but whenever I can, I help, as you can see from my posts.
As for yours, I see that either you are disconsiderate, as with me, ignoring my points, or you downright insult other people, indirectly, of course...I have seen this from past posts of yours, anybody who does not believe me, check it!
I had a disagreement with Grant, at the end of the day, that is what this forum is about - debate and exchange of ideas, but he had the good grace to wish me luck in my exam...learn from a Gentleman!
Yes, mate, don't debate, as a matter of fact, why don't you stay out of the forum entirely? It is not you wisdom I contest, but your attitude!
About your wisdom...you are good with the "Greeks", aren't you? So, as far as I am concerned, you may go to Hellas - that's Greece in Hellenic, or Greek; nice sunshine over there, I know, a friend of mine spent his honeymoon there.
If you are to worried from a health point of view, say, you fear gas poisoning due to a faulty gas pipe, then why not go to Lanzarote? I recommend Puerto del Carmen, wher eyou can sit in the Waikiki pub, sipping some gorgeous cocktails...then, you may cross the road and peep on the beach, where girls go topless...I know, I used to live there (my family still does).
Frankly, I do not know what this will do to your trading, but it will mightily improve your sense of humour (or lack of it) and as a result, your manners!
For the benefit of all concerned, as you are wise...LEARN SOME MANNERS!
Eduardo

Seconded.

BTW, I understand you are sitting exams.

Good Luck.

I say this to you because like many examples in life, points are sometimes awarded not for answers bearing truth as the result of irrefutable supportable evidence, but rather for what the (in this case) examiner mighrt like to be told.

If it is any assistance to you, tomorrow two huge huge barrages are going to be fired and this may help you in your exams, so please keep a sharp lookout.

 

[SOCRATES]

The Options Edge (writing Vs buying).

This thread created for sensible debate and reasoned argument as to whether one side of the fence (buyer / writer) has any inherent "edge" or "advantage".

Tomorrow we are going to provide irrefutable supportable evidence that will provide the correct answer on who truly has the edge.

You have three choices; one,... is that you can accept the irrefutable evidence laid before you and go along with the findings / evidence....or...two....you can choose to ignore the evidence and accept the opposite of the findings...:cheesy: or..three..you can choose to remain neutral and go against the evidence as profitaker habitually does, sitting on the fence and arguing pointlessly that neither has the edge.:cheesy:

Its your call.... The evidence will be provided and from then on it is up to you......

So don't drift off,.... pay attention...... and watch this space ...for tomorrow the irrefutable irrevocable unassailable evidence cometh,...

 

[Profitaker]

DB

I personally wouldn't give them any fuel. They have demonstrated that they are a bunch of parasites mascarading as something they're not. I wouldn't give them the time of day, never mind a heads up on the finer points of option trading.

 

[zupcon]

The Options Edge (writing Vs buying).

Tomorrow we are going to provide irrefutable supportable evidence that will provide the correct answer on who truly has the edge.

You have three choices; one,... is that you can accept the irrefutable evidence laid before you and go along with the findings / evidence....or...two....you can choose to ignore the evidence and accept the opposite of the findings...:cheesy: or..three..you can choose to remain neutral and go against the evidence as profitaker habitually does, sitting on the fence and arguing pointlessly that neither has the edge.:cheesy:

Its your call.... The evidence will be provided and from then on it is up to you......

So don't drift off,.... pay attention...... and watch this space ...for tomorrow the irrefutable irrevocable unassailable evidence cometh,...

Hopefully this will be new evidence based on rational argument, rather than the same old links to the cash cow strategy here at T2W and John Suma's half baked article at investopedia, I fear however that it probably wont be. Lets hope Im proved incorrect

regards
zup

 

[CYOF]

Good morning All,

I just wan't to make something clear before I post later on today, as I wan't to try an help you all as much as I can, for that is what I like doing. I have not read any posts as of yet, and I am tied up for a good while today.

If people wan't to learn anything of value - then they must open their mouths.

When someone opens their mouth, and something comes out, this means that the brain belonging to that person is working harder than it normally works, and vice versa.

But, one should also realise, that what comes out of ones mouth may well indeed be not correct, even though they might think it is correct. As a matter of FACT, it may be the exact opposite to what is FACTUAL, but for reasons that I have stated many times, the majority fail to recognise this.

By a clear understanding of the above simple advice, is how one really comes to acquire information of real value :idea:

Even though I admit I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANYTHING, how is it then, that I am able to come up with so many FACTS.

It makes you think about what I say, NO?

I will return later as time permits.

Regards,

 

[CYOF]

I have just received a call from a SUPER ELITE 3.4S committee member, who has asked me to bring the following to the attention of all members at T2W.

And, the reason he has asked me to do so, is because, he fully understands what my purpose is, and he also fully understands, that without a true purpose in life, no real accomplishments will ever be achieved by anyone :idea:

He has kindly told me that the following is indeed FACTUAL,

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/06/Options4Advantages.asp

but that the basis for this FACTUAL information must be studied closely. When the basis is studied closely, then it should become apparent, which side has the main advantage, and even more apparent, how that side maintains that main advantage.

This is all well known common knowledge, and in that respect, he has no problem what so ever in letting the public know this.

But, he also warned me again, and if I make any more slip ups, then I am out.

So, I will reply to the other posts later on, as mentioned, time permitting.

Please do take his advice seriously, for he is indeed a Master Trader, and is one of the very few that knows how things really work. He is not a waffler, believe me.

Regards,

Edit:

Apologies, I forgot to post this important excerpt as instructed by SE3.4S No.1

Conclusion
Having reviewed the primary advantages of options, it's evident why they seem to be the center of attention in financial circles today. With online brokerages providing direct access to the options markets through the internet and insanely low commission costs, the average retail investor now has the ability to use the most powerful tool in the investment industry just like the pros do. So, take the initiative and dedicate some time to learning how to use options properly.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Anyone else find it weird that there's an identically titled thread running on Bulls*tter's forum
at the moment.

Here's the last post . . .

Re: The Options Edge [writing vs buying]
« Reply #101 on Jan 16, 2007, 9:38am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OPTIONS EDGE: WRITER vs BUYER

8. QUESTIONS for you guys that trade Options:

1. The short PUT/CALL has an advantage "EDGE" over the long PUT/CALL TRUE or FALSE

2. The WRITER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the BUYER. TRUE or FALSE?

3. The BUYER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the WRITER? TRUE or FALSE?

4. Neither the WRITER or BUYER has the advantage or the "EDGE" over the other? TRUE or FALSE?

5. Who has more % gain on trades entered over the long term.? is it the WRITER or BUYER. In otherwords who has more chance of achieving more WINNING trades on the spin?

6. MORE than 50% of contracts expire worthless each month?TRUE or FALSE?

7. Options are a wasting asset? TRUE or FALSE?

8. All the above questions are suited to the title of thread and are on topic. TRUE or FALSE ?

Bull
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2007, 9:48am by MalteseBull1 »


But hey . . . you decide.

 

[zupcon]

Anyone else find it weird that there's an identically titled thread running on Bulls*tter's forum
at the moment.

Here's the last post . . .

Re: The Options Edge [writing vs buying]
« Reply #101 on Jan 16, 2007, 9:38am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OPTIONS EDGE: WRITER vs BUYER

8. QUESTIONS for you guys that trade Options:

1. The short PUT/CALL has an advantage "EDGE" over the long PUT/CALL TRUE or FALSE

2. The WRITER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the BUYER. TRUE or FALSE?

3. The BUYER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the WRITER? TRUE or FALSE?

4. Neither the WRITER or BUYER has the advantage or the "EDGE" over the other? TRUE or FALSE?

5. Who has more % gain on trades entered over the long term.? is it the WRITER or BUYER. In otherwords who has more chance of achieving more WINNING trades on the spin?

6. MORE than 50% of contracts expire worthless each month?TRUE or FALSE?

7. Options are a wasting asset? TRUE or FALSE?

8. All the above questions are suited to the title of thread and are on topic. TRUE or FALSE ?

Bull
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2007, 9:48am by MalteseBull1 »


But hey . . . you decide.

I myself commented on the similarities of CYOF and Bulldozers posts back in december.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showpost.php?p=297393&postcount=918

Perhaps the 3.4S reference implies they both share a level of intellegence 6 standard deviations above or below average (I'll let the general readership decide that one for themselves)