Best Thread The Options edge (Writing Vs Buying)

Profitaker said:
Hello again Bulldozer

You will find the answer to that and many other basic questions here:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Option-Volatility-Pricing-Sheldon-Natenberg/dp/155738486X/sr=1-1/qid=1167211130/ref=sr_1_1/026-3463153-3855611?ie=UTF8&s=books

Actually, I have a couple of questions for you:-

How many times have you been banned from T2W now ? How long does it take for you to get the message that you aren’t wanted or welcome here ?

p.s. Tell Soc he’s on ignore :)
Yes, when you finally decide to pay attention I have facts that will make you look very small, as a consequence of a conversation I have personally had lasting half an hour with Sheldon Natenberg in the United States, so when you are ready to recieve the cannonball I have here prepared to fire at you as a reward for your ignorance and rudeness, let me know and I will happily oblige.:LOL:

It will probably be one of several, just like a 74 gun frigate in a state of full combat readiness.:LOL: ...and furthermore as everyone on this site knows they always are fired accurtately in series ....and they always hit their target...:LOL:
 
Selling options has indeed many advantages over buying options – but as with all things in life – some will do it better than others.

To talk about trading options without acknowledging the facts, is, to say the least, foolish.

Some persist to talk about valuation models, volatility skews, etc, etc, and much more of the academic hype that is fine for teaching textbook trading, but others talk of trading options with respect to how the game really works.

I know who I want to listen to, but then again, it is really common sense, a thing that many so called experts seem to be lacking around here.

When you have a credit spread on and Index Option, you must manage it, the same as any trade that you have in any market.

A credit spread is created by selling an option, and purchasing another less expensive option.
When writing a credit spread, the writer is "credited" the difference between the premium collected from writing the option, less the cost of the option purchased. The option credit spread risk is limited to the difference between the strike prices of the option written and purchased, plus commissions and fees. Any loss would be further reduced by the amount of the credit received. While the option credit spread clearly offers the advantage of defined risk, the writer must sacrifice some of his potential profit in exchange for acquiring a limit to the potential loss.

If a put spread is written on the S&P 500, and the spread is not closed out prior to expiration, the strategy will be profitable if the S&P 500 futures price is above the strike price of the put written when the spread expires. If the futures price of the index is below the strike price of the put when the put that was written expires, the strategy may produce a loss. The loss will be limited to the amount of the difference between the strike prices of the two options in the spread. For example, if a put with a strike price of 900 is written, and a put with a price of 875 is purchased, the maximum loss on the spread is 25 points, minus the original credit on the spread. If this spread were originally put on for a credit of 5 points, the maximum possible loss is 25 x $250 = $6,250 minus the original $1,250 credit, or $5,000 plus commissions and fees.

Now, in reality, would a trader let this loss develop without hedging – well, if he is any good, he would not, but if he is a fool, he certainly would. :idea:
 
Profitaker said:
Care to enlighten us how exactly you would "manage" a credit spread ?

Do YOU mean that YOU don't know, or do YOU mean that YOU want me to tell you how I think is the best way to do it.

I thought you were the expert on Options :rolleyes:
 
Post No.223 is crystal clear, try reading it again.

I'd be amazed if you could come up with a credible reply. Until then, don't expect one from me.
 
Well, OK, if you insist.

Firstly I would look at the newspaper and see what day it is - for sometimes I tend to forget :idea:

Then, I would look at the clock and see what time it is, as I sometimes get dis-orientated :idea:

After that, I would then see how my positions are doing on my P&L Line Graph, and depending on how they are doing, I would then adjust to either lock in profits, or reduce risk, whichever is calling for me to do so.

It really is very simple, but then again, I am reading form a textbook, so it should be just that.

And now that you know how I would do it, how would you do it.

Please do enlighten us - for you do trade options, No?
 
And just to show that I always tell the truth - which I am fed up saying at this stage, but no one seems to believe me, but I don't know why, so I always have to show the doubting Thomas, which I will eventually get fed up doing, and one of these days I might just go away and not come back, and show some people who are really interested, not just people who talk a load of rubbish about something, and have absolutely no facts to back up anything they say.

Just in case I have not said it before :rolleyes: , THE TRUTH is always THE TRUTH, and no matter how much someone tries to twist it, they will never succeed :idea:
 
CYOF,

The example of the credit spread in #222. Did you write this yourself or was it copied from another source?

Grant.
 
grantx said:
CYOF,

The example of the credit spread in #222. Did you write this yourself or was it copied from another source?

Grant.

Hi Grant,

I did write it myself, obviously, and a more fitting question, may be, do I understand what I am writing about, and if I do understand, why is that so?

We all get our information from other sources, it is just that some sources are much better than others. Herein lies one of the Keys to successful trading.

Now, do I understand what my writing means, and it just so happens that my understanding is as follows:

Ths strategy I wrote of is a PUT BULL CREDIT SPREAD - both legs expire on same day.

I just happened to learn this in the Elite club. Its one of the most simple & basic strategies on the planet.

I now have a question for you Grant.

Question: What is it a Short Put/Call can do that a Long Put/Call CANT do?

Looking forward to some interesting discussion on this very interesting subject.
 
As we seem to have some Options traders here, I would like to post a few questions for all who trade Options, as follows:

1. The short PUT/CALL has an advantage "EDGE" over the long PUT/CALL .

TRUE or FALSE?

2. The WRITER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the BUYER.

TRUE or FALSE?

3. The BUYER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the WRITER.

TRUE or FALSE?

4. Neither the WRITER or BUYER has the advantage or the "EDGE" over the other.

TRUE or FALSE?

5. Who has more chance to make winning trades entered over the long term. Is it the WRITER or BUYER. And who has more chance of achieving more WINNING trades on the spin?

6. MORE than 50% of contracts expire worthless each month.

TRUE or FALSE?

7. Options are a wasting asset.

TRUE or FALSE?

All the above questions are suited to the title of thread and are on topic.

So please answer each question with that which you think is correct.

Regards,
 
A Dashing Blade said:
A full and frank discussion would requier relative strikes & maturities non?
Hi Dblade,

For the purpose of starting off, a true or false will do.

We can then elaborate, and bring in charts, etc, if we think it is warranted.

But lets first show the readers what the different ways of thinking are for those that trade Options.

I also want to ask another few questions to open this discussion up some more - as some of the stuff I am reading, is, to say the least, even surprising me, but then again, I have always admitted that I know nothing about anything, which I truly believe.

Regards
 
I also have a few more questions that maybe some of the more seasoned Options traders can explain, as I am truly finding this discussion very interesting.

Question No.1

Is the following true or false?

I have read that the following is possible: You can do 3, 6, 9 legs Iron Diagonal Spiders on the FTSE Index and make 500% profit in less than 3 months :eek:

Question No.2

Is the following true or false?

A variation to above strategy as follows: You can do 3, 6, 9 legs Puts Diagonal Spiders on the FTSE Index and make 300% profit in less than 3 months :eek:

Question No.3

Do any of you Option traders understand these EXOTIC trades, and if so, how would you Hedge the positions to lock in profits on my little P&L graph.

Looking forward to the replies.

Regards,
 
CYOF said:
Hi Dblade,

For the purpose of starting off, a true or false will do.

We can then elaborate, and bring in charts, etc, if we think it is warranted.

But lets first show the readers what the different ways of thinking are for those that trade Options.

I also want to ask another few questions to open this discussion up some more - as some of the stuff I am reading, is, to say the least, even surprising me, but then again, I have always admitted that I know nothing about anything, which I truly believe.

Regards

Apologies Dblade,

As I have just seen that your reply was not a true / false answer.

So, if we can just give a general statemet to start, and again, we can bring in what ever is required at a later stage.

Thanks,
 
As we seem to have some Options traders here, I would like to post a few questions for all who trade Options, as follows:

1. The short PUT/CALL has an advantage "EDGE" over the long PUT/CALL .
TRUE

2. The WRITER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the BUYER.
TRUE

3. The BUYER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the WRITER.
FALSE

4. Neither the WRITER or BUYER has the advantage or the "EDGE" over the other.
FALSE

5. Who has more chance to make winning trades entered over the long term. Is it the WRITER or BUYER. And who has more chance of achieving more WINNING trades on the spin?
WRITER

6. MORE than 50% of contracts expire worthless each month.
TRUE

7. Options are a wasting asset.
TRUE

All the above questions are suited to the title of thread and are on topic.

So please answer each question with that which you think is correct.

Regards
 
Thank you trendie,

Lets see if this warrents a poll later on - a few more please.

Regards,
 
CYOF,

Rather than a poll, we need a discussion of why these statements are true or false.

Consensus confirms belief, not truth ( I can't believe I just said that).

"Question: What is it a Short Put/Call can do that a Long Put/Call CANT do?" I think I'm going to need some time on this (there's an indicement).

Re questions of "Edge". This term gets thrown around a lot and I'm not too sure as to the precise meaning. Does it refer to advantage through greater knowledge or superior skill, eg as in executing or managing a position? Indeed, it could embrace both and even expand to include (greater) experience.

I'll stick with the former - greater knowledge - until I've considered it more or told otherwise. On a very basic level, the writer of a put or call has an edge when the implied volatility is high; the buyer has an edge when the implied is low.

I would certainly be interested in other interpretations.

Grant.
 
1. The short PUT/CALL has an advantage "EDGE" over the long PUT/CALL .
False

2. The WRITER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the BUYER.
False

3. The BUYER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the WRITER.
False

4. Neither the WRITER or BUYER has the advantage or the "EDGE" over the other.
True

5. Who has more chance to make winning trades entered over the long term. Is it the WRITER or BUYER. And who has more chance of achieving more WINNING trades on the spin?

WRITER in terms of frequency of profitable trade.

To clarify - The writer will make many frequent small profitable trades and very few but substantial losses. The BUYER will make many frequent small losses and very few but substantial profits.

6. MORE than 50% of contracts expire worthless each month.
TRUE - but that statistic is meaningless, and is often used by newbies

7. Options are a wasting asset.
TRUE – but being positive (or negative) theta is not an edge.

CYOF – you need to understand volatility, implied volatility, normal distributions and a healthy dose of skew and kurtosis wouldn’t hurt either. From the questions you’re asking above it’s clear you don’t. Not trying to be condescending, but having read your posts on other threads, it’s clear you’re looking for an argument here rather than genuinely trying to understand option trading.
 
CYOF said:
As we seem to have some Options traders here, I would like to post a few questions for all who trade Options, as follows:

1. The short PUT/CALL has an advantage "EDGE" over the long PUT/CALL .
TRUE or FALSE?
2. The WRITER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the BUYER.
TRUE or FALSE?
3. The BUYER has the advantage and "EDGE" over the WRITER.
TRUE or FALSE?
4. Neither the WRITER or BUYER has the advantage or the "EDGE" over the other.
TRUE or FALSE?
5. Who has more chance to make winning trades entered over the long term. Is it the WRITER or BUYER. And who has more chance of achieving more WINNING trades on the spin?
6. MORE than 50% of contracts expire worthless each month.
TRUE or FALSE?
7. Options are a wasting asset.
TRUE or FALSE?

All the above questions are suited to the title of thread and are on topic.
So please answer each question with that which you think is correct.
Regards,

#1...........False
#2...........False
#3...........False
#4...........True
#5...........The better trader, irrespective of whether they are "writers or buyers"
#6...........Possibly
#7...........They have a finite life, however, some appreciate in price faster than they decay in theta, while others are overwhelmed by theta decay, so, False.

jog on
d998
 
grantx said:
CYOF,

Rather than a poll, we need a discussion of why these statements are true or false.

Consensus confirms belief, not truth ( I can't believe I just said that).

"Question: What is it a Short Put/Call can do that a Long Put/Call CANT do?" I think I'm going to need some time on this (there's an indicement).

Re questions of "Edge". This term gets thrown around a lot and I'm not too sure as to the precise meaning. Does it refer to advantage through greater knowledge or superior skill, eg as in executing or managing a position? Indeed, it could embrace both and even expand to include (greater) experience.

I'll stick with the former - greater knowledge - until I've considered it more or told otherwise. On a very basic level, the writer of a put or call has an edge when the implied volatility is high; the buyer has an edge when the implied is low.

I would certainly be interested in other interpretations.

Grant.

Hi Grant,

And thank you for the reply.

A simple poll, which we are doing, will assist some viewers with an overview as to what the general consensus is - so that is a good place to start. However, you are indeed correct in stating that a discussion is the best way for to learn, and that will naturally follow by itself.

Take all the time you like - the more thinking the better.

As for the "Edge", well that is off topic and will only serve to detract from the subjects under discussion, which we must not do if we are to make any real headway. I suggest that we all concentrate on the matter under consideration.

We will all learn something of real value, that is for sure.

Regards,
 
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