The end of the EU

[rsh01]

Imo Britain is in worse shape than the EU.

based on what? what evidence? just interested to know how you came to your conclusion.

they are both ****ed - however some parts of the EU will prob always do ok, so to with the UK.

 

[Pat494]

This makes pretty scary reading

The End of Britain - FSPonline-recommends.co.uk

I see the Survivalists in the USA are stocking up on food and weapons.
We got food I suppose

 

[justtrader]

This makes pretty scary reading

The End of Britain - FSPonline-recommends.co.uk

I see the Survivalists in the USA are stocking up on food and weapons.
We got food I suppose

Bit OTT
I would say

 

[LiboNZT]

First of all no, the average greek was not paid 5 salaries for a single job and that is GROSS propaganda. Secondly, the world's richest people have their money in swiss, not just the greeks.
Thirdly, I didn't say the uk currency is to blame for all the mess in greece. Read again what I wrote please.

The uk is in terminal decline since black friday. Their economy might be strong but no way stronger than that of the eurozone. If the supermacists prevail in england and they push their agenda for an exit from the eu that will cause unprecedented problems for the uk economy which will be unable to antagonize it's bigger eu brothers. But my main concern about the uk economy is that its financial sector is actually turning into a bubble. Compared to their gdp, their financial sector is becoming way too large.

 

[Splitlink]

First of all no, the average greek was not paid 5 salaries for a single job and that is GROSS propaganda. Secondly, the world's richest people have their money in swiss, not just the greeks.
Thirdly, I didn't say the uk currency is to blame for all the mess in greece. Read again what I wrote please.

The uk is in terminal decline since black friday. Their economy might be strong but no way stronger than that of the eurozone. If the supermacists prevail in england and they push their agenda for an exit from the eu that will cause unprecedented problems for the uk economy which will be unable to antagonize it's bigger eu brothers. But my main concern about the uk economy is that its financial sector is actually turning into a bubble. Compared to their gdp, their financial sector is becoming way too large.

Let's be honest with ourselves. No one knows how all this is going to end. There are so many incognitos and a bad decision by any of our leaders is going to be disastrous.

I believe that Greece's bad mistake was in borrowing all that money, instead of defaulting. Spain is trying not to do that and the money that has come in from Brussels, Rajoy has insisted, must be bank debt, not sovereign debt. Things are so bad, here, now that I dread to think what more working people would have to endure if we were bailed out by Brussels. I'm not saying that it won't come to that--just keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[counter_violent]

Let's be honest with ourselves. No one knows how all this is going to end. There are so many incognitos and a bad decision by any of our leaders is going to be disastrous.

Unsurprisingly, some of us know exactly how it will end 😆 Everyone else is either miss-informed, ignorant or in complete denial.

I believe that Greece's bad mistake was in borrowing all that money, instead of defaulting. Spain is trying not to do that and the money that has come in from Brussels, Rajoy has insisted, must be bank debt, not sovereign debt. Things are so bad, here, now that I dread to think what more working people would have to endure if we were bailed out by Brussels. I'm not saying that it won't come to that--just keeping my fingers crossed.

Split, all you need to know is that the worlds economies have been and continue to be run very badly. They are all trying to push snowballs uphill. We all know what happens when the pushers stop pushing or the snowball becomes too large etc etc.

 

[Atilla]

Split, all you need to know is that the worlds economies have been and continue to be run very badly. They are all trying to push snowballs uphill. We all know what happens when the pushers stop pushing or the snowball becomes too large etc etc.

Golf courses will save Spain.

Right now Chinese and Russian money is googling Spanish properties.

No worries 🙂

Steady as she goes... 👍

 

[Splitlink]

Split, all you need to know is that the worlds economies have been and continue to be run very badly. They are all trying to push snowballs uphill. We all know what happens when the pushers stop pushing or the snowball becomes too large etc etc.

Stop being such a pessimist! 😆

 

[counter_violent]

Golf courses will save Spain.

Right now Chinese and Russian money is googling Spanish properties.

No worries 🙂

Steady as she goes... 👍

😆 It's a good job I know your not serious.

If Russian or Chinese money is googling Spanish property.....thats only because they want out of China and Russia 😆

 

[Atilla]

😆 It's a good job I know your not serious.

If Russian or Chinese money is googling Spanish property.....thats only because they want out of China and Russia 😆

Haha - but I am serious. You should know I have been very positive and confident about it all since 2009.

There is no global recession or slump. Only a local correction of the excessive debt bubble in the so called Western economies.

Asia has grown tremendously and continues to do so.
Latin America is seeing very strong growth.
Africa has also grown and continues to - contrary to many disputers going way back to 2006. (Chump comes to mind 😉 )

Was talking to a trader only yesterday who said China is slowing down too. I thought OMG!!! What do we have here. China has slowed from 11 - 7% and that is supposed to be what negative news 😱

Get real I said. 7% growth and he is disappointed. What would please such people... China's growth goes up 4% eg: 11 to 15% year on year.

If any country in the West had 3% growth right now I think we'd be over planet pluto let alone the moon.

There is no common sense or sense of proportion in some people.

To say we are in a Global recession is to put it mildly a lot of tosh. But that's just my opinion.

Chinese and Russian money is free to go where ever it wants not because it wants out but precisely because it is a 'free' market economy. 🙂

 

[counter_violent]

Haha - but I am serious. You should know I have been very positive and confident about it all since 2009.

There is no global recession or slump. Only a local correction of the excessive debt bubble in the so called Western economies.

Asia has grown tremendously and continues to do so.
Latin America is seeing very strong growth.
Africa has also grown and continues to - contrary to many disputers going way back to 2006. (Chump comes to mind 😉 )

Was talking to a trader only yesterday who said China is slowing down too. I thought OMG!!! What do we have here. China has slowed from 11 - 7% and that is supposed to be what negative news 😱

Get real I said. 7% growth and he is disappointed. What would please such people... China's growth goes up 4% eg: 11 to 15% year on year.

If any country in the West had 3% growth right now I think we'd be over planet pluto let alone the moon.

There is no common sense or sense of proportion in some people.

To say we are in a Global recession is to put it mildly a lot of tosh. But that's just my opinion.

Chinese and Russian money is free to go where ever it wants not because it wants out but precisely because it is a 'free' market economy. 🙂

I really ought to split this thread up and put some of it in "joke of the day"

I'll leave you to figure out which bits😆

Meanwhile back in the real world, the only reason the west has not already imploded is because they all keep on throwing more and more money at the problem. When it all stops, then it all collapses, dragging the east with it.

We are not operating in a free market.

I can't make it any clearer 🙂

 

[Atilla]

I really ought to split this thread up and put some of it in "joke of the day"

I'll leave you to figure out which bits😆

Meanwhile back in the real world, the only reason the west has not already imploded is because they all keep on throwing more and more money at the problem. When it all stops, then it all collapses, dragging the east with it.

We are not operating in a free market.

I can't make it any clearer 🙂

I've heard of that recipe too.

The books will cook them selves soon enough.

Leave well alone 👍

 

[LiboNZT]

Expect the unexpected... But if a eurozone breakup is expected, then what is trully unexpected that we have to expect it?

 

[Splitlink]

Expect the unexpected... But if a eurozone breakup is expected, then what is trully unexpected that we have to expect it?

That it isn't going to break up!

Actually, I cannot understand how successful traders have not learned that lesson,already!

I do not know what the unexpected is but, at my time of life, nothing much surprises me.

I had another look at your name--I thought that it might be Nassim Taleb for a minute.

 

[Pat494]

We are in interesting times imho
The events in Egypt show clearly how split and fragmented modern ideas of Govt are.
The poor souls of many countries have harboured the thoughts of what they had not got i.e. democracy and freedoms , only to find that 90% of them are bust and going downhill. Which has left many intellectuals in a sort of limbo as to which direction to take after years of hardship and bloody struggle.
The USA has pushed for democracy for decades and they can't see that a $17 trillion debt is a clear indication of it's inadequacies.
Theocracy some yell is the answer - only God can decide. But is Iran a thriving economy and a nice place to live ?
The winners seem to be 1 party states like China. But would people want to give up their rights to have a political opinion for this ? Big brother is an Orwellian nightmare too.

Perhaps there is no answer - but only a best fit fudge.

 

[Splitlink]

We are in interesting times imho
The events in Egypt show clearly how split and fragmented modern ideas of Govt are.
The poor souls of many countries have harboured the thoughts of what they had not got i.e. democracy and freedoms , only to find that 90% of them are bust and going downhill. Which has left many intellectuals in a sort of limbo as to which direction to take after years of hardship and bloody struggle.
The USA has pushed for democracy for decades and they can't see that a $17 trillion debt is a clear indication of it's inadequacies.
Theocracy some yell is the answer - only God can decide. But is Iran a thriving economy and a nice place to live ?
The winners seem to be 1 party states like China. But would people want to give up their rights to have a political opinion for this ? Big brother is an Orwellian nightmare too.

Perhaps there is no answer - but only a best fit fudge.

Don't go to Egypt--look at Spain!

Cataluña is very fragmented after this election. There, the unexpected happened.

Artur Mas and his governing CiU party decided to drum up big support by promising a referendum on independence. IMO, he was not trusted by independence followers, who thought that he only wanted their support as a big stick threat to wave at Madrid for tax reform, so his majority party became a minority by losing ten seats instead of gaining more.

The result was that those followers left him for two other, smaller parties, but both Catalan in thinking.

One is, without doubt, a left wing independence party and the other is a strongly Catalan party that does not want independence, Both made strong gains, the latter which is one to watch and was very small, went from three to nine seats. Still small, but I like the team.

Of the other main, "Madrid minded, parties, PP and PSOE, very similar to UK Conservative and Labour parties did not change much, PP gained a seat and PSOE lost some.

Nevertheless, Pat, the fragmentation, here, makes it very difficult to form a government which is the way Madrid and Rajoy like it, of course.

 

[Pat494]

Nevertheless, Pat, the fragmentation, here, makes it very difficult to form a government which is the way Madrid and Rajoy like it, of course.

Perhaps you could explain why they like it in a muddle ?
On the question of splitting up - this may well be the political fashion globally. Even some states in the US are thinking along similiar lines. China of course is not really 1 country. In the Hong Kong office the Shanghai lot had to converse with the locals of Cantonese origin in English. Their languages and customs were and perhaps still are as different as French to German.

Having found out the difficulties of being one big block they are in danger of forgetting the benefits.

 

[Splitlink]

Perhaps you could explain why they like it in a muddle ?
On the question of splitting up - this may well be the political fashion globally. Even some states in the US are thinking along similiar lines. China of course is not really 1 country. In the Hong Kong office the Shanghai lot had to converse with the locals of Cantonese origin in English. Their languages and customs were and perhaps still are as different as French to German.

Having found out the difficulties of being one big block they are in danger of forgetting the benefits.

If Artur Mas had got a majority in Cataluña I am sure that he would have given a headache to Rajoy because he would have threatened secession, after a referendum.

Cataluña signed the Constitution, which makes referendums and secession, by autonomic governments, illegal, but he would, and probably, still will, anyway, call one, However, he has been seriously weakened by this loss of seats and that is why Rajoy is breathing a sigh of relief.

How many of those who voted for him would vote for independence in a referendum? It would take us out of the EU and, your opinion regardless, many Catalans have not given up on that, yet, and would not like to be left outside in the cold.

My personal opinion is that Cataluña has a lot to moan about but this might well be sorted out by Madrid before the next elections. It's been a long time coming and Catalans should not be pushed too far. If nothing happens by then, then it will be the fault of the Central Government.

Why has not Cataluña got a fast link rail service to Paris when Madrid has one to Sevilla?

Why are motorways free, as in the UK, but not in Cartaluña?

Why is the port, now reportablyi 20% owned by Chinese interests and, easily, the most important in the Med, refused rail expansion by Madrid?

Too many "why's", Pat. Madrid is a geographical spot on the map. Cataluña is the powerhouse of Spain's economy.

Hey! I've lived here too long. The Scots would love to have me on their patch! 😆

 

[Atilla]

Euro is here to stay... We can all breath easy again... 😉

Euro doomsayers adjust predictions after 2012 apocalypse averted | Reuters

 

[Pat494]

If only the EU enthusiasts would get rid of the political/fiscal union bit, subsidies to uneconomic parts etc. and let trade flow things might improve.

Commissioners that lord it over 400 million without a single vote cast says it all. A crappy system run by incompetents and plagued with corruption. The beneficiaries of the corruption managed to silence Neil Kinnock ( appointed to tackle it ), they are so strong.

Europe is riddled with crime and peversion so embedded it is almost impossible to have a clean up, except a token one.