Teach trading at School.

[simcom]

I agree though that Art, Geography etc are all important.

Agreed. Whilst I think teaching basic trading would be an interesting idea (if somewhat impractical), I do think that bare-bones financial management and planning would be both relevant and not as difficult to teach in a classroom environment.

 

[DaveJB]

it rather makes me think that getting the 3Rs right would be a good first step...

(Jack O Clubs)

Absolutely spot on - you can teach lots of things provided the basic 3 R's have been hacked, but without basic numeracy and literacy skills being in place you haven't much chance of making what you are trying to teach stick.

 

[Tawe Trader]

I am very glad that a high level of intelligence isn't essential to becoming a successful trader, otherwise I should never have started on this road over seven years ago.

I went to a very poor Welsh Comprehensive school back in the 80's where I was one of the lucky ones to leave with a couple of 'O' levels and get a skilled job, a very rare (Mechanical) apprenticeship.

I believe the key isn't intelligence, or some fancy trading software with tons of indicators, it's self-management, which unfortunately is not something you can learn overnight from a book / seminar / course. It's only by trading with REAL money can you see how you act under various mkt situations.

I have read over a hundred trading books and used to get so excited when a new one arrived through the letterbox thinking this was the one with the winning formula, only to be disappointed later and move on and order the next Holy Grail book with 4+ stars on amazon.

Trading is fairly straightforward but you can make it as complicated as you wish, which suit's the PhD Quants but if you are like me, of average intelligence you can succeed at trading, trust me it can be done, but you have to really want it and place it above everything else (apart from family) in your life. It's like everything else in life, if you really want something you WILL find a way to succeed, but in today's society everybody want's everything now and to get rich quick. Take as much time that's required and develop your own simple system that work's for you, trade it and manage yourself !

Determination - patience - discipline - trust in YOUR system (with a slight edge) and the holy grail ...... EGOLESS trading.

 

[Tawe Trader]

Sorry, it's looks like I may have gone a bit off topic.

Basic Financial planning or whatever should be taught in schools ie ISA's, APR's and stuff but I don't think trading could be taught/learnt in school based what I have mentioned above regarding what attributes I believe make a successful trader.

Has anyone noticed how a large portion of top US traders are ex-army/marines. Surely it must have a lot to do with their training ? building discipline and with that the ability to be able to think/act quickly when under pressure.

 

[Rhody Trader]

Has anyone noticed how a large portion of top US traders are ex-army/marines. Surely it must have a lot to do with their training ? building discipline and with that the ability to be able to think/act quickly when under pressure.

Or do they have the a ceratain personality trait which predisposes them to joining the military and also serves them well in trading?

 

[Captain Currency]

Hello all,

Paul71 well done, nice thread starter.
I just had a quick brouse of the previous 3 pages so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has said.

I was part of a group of "teachers" that went into schools in Dublin last year to talk about economice, companies, earnings etc to ten year olds, it was called juniour achievers. The kids learned alot and enjoyed the break from their normal subjects.
When asked to name one company in the town they all said MCDONALDS!!!

Im all for sharing information with others who want to learn, young or old. If you plant a seed today you will get a tree one day.

Kind Regards,

 

[Hook Shot]

Perhaps they could teach them about BUBBLES

I am not so sure trading should be taught at school.......

Personal Finance, Investments yep I can see good reasons for all of that...but trading can be akin to gambling... and consequently I'm a bit wary... The longer the time frame the more comfortable I feel about the idea but the concentration span of the young people needs to be considered :cheesy:

I think they should certainly teach them about the Asset Bubbles and boom/bust cycles. From what I read ages ago that's how the big guys play the game.... and win.

The challenge will be to keep it interesting since they might not see "results" during the period of study since major turns in market cycles are not a regular event. However, there are loads of case studies to draw upon even in the last 7yrs......

If they understand bubbles etc they can go bubble hopping.........and compound their capital..... from tech bubble to housing bubble to commods/emerging markets bubble to ...... nuclear, climate change bubble ? A great game and one sadly I've only recently become familiar with....

Just my tuppence............
Maybe one day a new boom in banking and real estate/prop stocks

Edit: Bubbles always seem to get bad press cos many people lose loadsa money when they burst - but nobody talks much about the silly money which is made on the up cycle of the bubble ..... or that all parties have to come to an end......

Bubbles are one of capitalism's great unsung heroes ......IMO

 

[grantx]

Captain,

I hope this isn't a prelude.

Apart from turning out illiterates and inumerates, do you also envisage producing obnoxious fkcus, like the "entrepeneurs" of Dragons' (Lions'?)Den fame? (Strange that it is only the foreign businessmen who occasionally lapse into civility).

Grant.

 

[Paul71]

Trading would be a part of a broader economics type subject/course. O level, A level and degree level, trading or the subject of trading would not have to start until the person reached A levels or degree levels. Also, the subject need not be compulsory, like maths and english, a person could opt for the subject.

Talking about trading in the same breath as gambling is an easy way to attack trading, there's no need for it. Ask anyone who has had their home repossessed in the last 12 months about gambling, bookmakers are always a real easy option for someone with a bit of a wild gambling streak, people are always gambling in some way, shape or form.

I see DaveJB is a physics teacher, is this correct? Does physics stand a person in good stead for the markets? Why are you teaching it? Was this the easy route, rather than applying your knowledge to create, you teach others hoping they will be able to apply their new found knowledge better than you can?

Yours,

 

[Captain Currency]

Captain,

I hope this isn't a prelude.

Apart from turning out illiterates and inumerates, do you also envisage producing obnoxious fkcus, like the "entrepeneurs" of Dragons' (Lions'?)Den fame? (Strange that it is only the foreign businessmen who occasionally lapse into civility).

Grant.

Hello Grant,

Your not a fan of dragons den? bet you cant wait till Alan Sugar comes back on the box with the apprentice!

Kind Regards

 

[Rhody Trader]

I see DaveJB is a physics teacher, is this correct? Does physics stand a person in good stead for the markets? Why are you teaching it? Was this the easy route, rather than applying your knowledge to create, you teach others hoping they will be able to apply their new found knowledge better than you can?

I'll leave DaveJB to answer for himself. Having done a lot of teaching myself - albeit more in an coaching role than a traditional classroom lecturer - I can honestly say I get more of a charge out of being an educator than I ever did as a participant. I loved playing volleyball (the sport I've primarily coached) when I was spry enough to do so, but that's a fleeting, in the moment sort of feeling. As a coach the satisfaction of helping someone develop is much longer lasting.

 

[Paul71]

Who'd teach it?
Anyone who taught pupils (well enough for the pupils to succeed at it) would hardly go into a modern classroom in preference to simply trading for themselves, or flogging their time as mentors at a rather better hourly rate!

I think anything that helps people develop financial commonsense is a good idea, it would have to be an subject pupils opted into - ie just like all the other course choices they make - there would be little point in trying to teach finance, trading, or what APR means to those who struggle to master divison and get cold feet when they count past 10.

Dave is a teacher, you know, Rhody.

 

[Rhody Trader]

Dave is a teacher, you know, Rhody.

I did pick up on that.

 

[Paul71]

Who would teach trading? Asked DaveJB. Splitlink?

Can a person talk a good trade, know exactly what they are looking at and looking for, be a master of the trading textbook, philosophize with the best of them about the subject of trading, a genious trading theorist, but in practice, be the worst trader ever?

Great in the classroom, not so good doing it for real?

Failed traders would teach trading.

 

[Crap Buddist]

Who would teach trading? Asked DaveJB. Splitlink?

Can a person talk a good trade, know exactly what they are looking at and looking for, be a master of the trading textbook, philosophize with the best of them about the subject of trading, a genious trading theorist, but in practice, be the worst trader ever?

Great in the classroom, not so good doing it for real?

Failed traders would teach trading.

hmm interesting point, I had a convo a while back with someone about choosing teachers, "today would they rather be taught by someone newly academically qualified to teach a subject or someone qualified by both 10 years experience & academically ?"

who would rather choose which and would it matter ?


ohhh, be interesting to be chawalla to the education commitee as they thrash out the definitive study text that pupils would be taught.

 

[grantx]

Captain,

Don't like Dragons' Den but I do like Alan Sugar (just can't stand the contestants - cliches of the 80's).

Grant.

 

[Rhody Trader]

hmm interesting point, I had a convo a while back with someone about choosing teachers, "today would they rather be taught by someone newly academically qualified to teach a subject or someone qualified by both 10 years experience & academically ?"

who would rather choose which and would it matter ?

Clearly, anyone would rather be taught by someone with experience over someone with none, all else being equal. The question fails to take into account a very important element - the ability of the teacher to actually communicate the material in a way the students can absorb it.

There are loads of brilliant ( insert specialist here ) who are masters of their field but cannot teach to save their lives. They have focused so much on "performance" that they never really learned how to communicate with those below their level. It tends to be more average performers, or folks with certain limitations against progressing to peak performer status (short basketball player, for example), who end up being the best teacher/coaches.

Consider the Premier League. It could be argued that Roy Keane was an elite level player. He's in the distinct minority among top level managers, though, and who knows if he'll turn out to be a really good coach in the long run. Wenger and Sir Alex certainly weren't top level players, but they are brilliant managers by any estimation.

 

[counter_violent]

hmm interesting point, I had a convo a while back with someone about choosing teachers, "today would they rather be taught by someone newly academically qualified to teach a subject or someone qualified by both 10 years experience & academically ?"

who would rather choose which and would it matter ?


ohhh, be interesting to be chawalla to the education commitee as they thrash out the definitive study text that pupils would be taught.

Interesting...is there a distinction to be made between a newly qualified
teacher and One who has 10 yrs experience....

Personally I would dismiss both groups....the more rounded teachers are the ones who have ...left school...had some outside world experience....they must add value to the purely academic subjects...

cv

 

[Rhody Trader]

Personally I would dismiss both groups....the more rounded teachers are the ones who have ...left school...had some outside world experience....they must add value to the purely academic subjects...

Hear, hear!

Assuming they could actually teach worth a lick, of course.

 

[DaveJB]

Sorry for the slight delay,
I only pop in now and then...

I see DaveJB is a physics teacher, is this correct? Does physics stand a person in good stead for the markets? Why are you teaching it? Was this the easy route, rather than applying your knowledge to create, you teach others hoping they will be able to apply their new found knowledge better than you can?

Does it stand you in good stead? As a subject that requires data handling and numerical skills, and a touch of logic I'd say that it probably doesn't hurt - but I doubt it helps particularly. I doubt very much if trading success and intelligence are linked, by the way.

Why do I teach it? It's the study of how the Universe works, which makes it 99.9%fascinating... unfortunately many educational systems dictate which bits of the fascinating whole are to be taught, it seems common to pick the boring bits. (The other 0.1%). I suspect commitees are involved, probably involving zombies.

Easy route - yep, I just dropped straight into it following my 23 year RAF career. I had 10 years left to retirement, and put my 18 months notice in - a young family etc meant I had to earn a crust still (my RAF crust was quite a decent one), but I had a strong desire to do something more constructive...old age setting in perhaps, I wanted to be able to say I had contributed something and I thought educating kids was a good way to do that. My previous career helps provide some 'real life balance' that young 'straight in' teachers can't provide, they bring other gifts instead - like they can bend easily, and don't need a crash cart after running 50 metres.

To complete the story, and avoid any more guessing -
I am quite popular with the majority of pupils, they like my bad jokes and non_PC view of life...I'm quite well rated on ratemyteacher.
Thanks in no small part to the skills I acquired in the RAF I didn't dip in pay for very long, I'm the dept head, so my boss quite likes me too.
My department's record in national exams at all levels is very good, and has been for a few years now.

Newly qualified teachers aren't a bad thing - they are often very keen and willing to work very very hard, there are good and poor teachers at all levels/ages. When I took the department over I had two recently trained colleagues on my team - the exam results would not have been as good as they have been without their willing support and enthusiasm.

The saying 'those who can do, those who can't teach' is a complete load of bo*****s, often promulgated by those who can do neither.
(Excuse me for fence sitting on that one).
I have read a lot of trading material over recent years, I would endorse the opinion that many good traders couldn't teach trading courses - they know what they are doing, but many seem to experience extreme difficulty getting their ideas across with clarity. Some teachers do too I guess.