T2W Journal Section?

[bbmac]

So do your own research and stop expecting that trader to spoon feed you everything Lol !,...ie if indeed he is showing you only the ones that worked then you can find this out for yourself through your own research. By the Way if you had paid for it and not been told the whole story then yeh you can get upset-but actually I think I just described most vendors of trading systems Lol !

The simple truth is that the successful traders who are busy trading have little or no time or even is they have the time (ie if they are are on a longer t/f trigger) they don't have the inclination to prove anything to anyone. If they post something/examples - believe them or don't believe them- but just do your own research.

G/L

Because there could have been another 100 examples of the same setup that are not shown.

This might not even be deliberate on the part of poster. There is probably a natural human bias to overlook the setups that didn't quite work out as expected.

Thats why even a demo account, which logs every setup actually taken in real time, not just the ones that worked best in hindsight, with the not so good ones continently forgotten about.

 

[isatrader]

Is this section up to scratch? From where i'm standing i'd say no.
Wot r your views?

Going back to opening post I've personally found having a online journal very useful. I use it as an additional risk management tool as the scrutiny of other traders keeps me alert to not let any loses get out of hand and to not do anything stupid outside of my risk management tolerances. I've been keeping a journal for 6 months now and try to post my trades up as soon as possible after I've put them on. I've had advice from a lot of people, some good and some bad, but it has helped me to improve my methods and become more consistent.

Is this section up to scratch. I'd say there's a lot of junk but you do find the odd gem which gives you new ideas to explore on your own.

 

[bbmac]

A few years ago now before I had fully developed my trading edge I had cottoned on to the idea of divergence principly from one particular trader over at another thread...Now this trader would post example after example of this divergence but when I looked at it I could see plenty of examples that didn't work...When I asked the trader about this I didn't receive a satisfactory answer (either he didn't know and was being selective in what he posted/lucky or he knew more and didn't want to say-such was his right to withold details of his trading edge....I didn't know which) So, I did my own research and soon began to realise the following.

a. Each t/f of each instrument a cyclical character and the settings of any oscillator chosen to show divergence should be sympathetic to that.
b. I began to understand what it is was that oscillator divergence may be telling my about price
c. I began to understand that there were different patterns of divergence , some of which repeated, and which divergence had a greater probability of being truer than others - and why.
d. I began to understand that even having worked out the above, I needed further confirmation about what price may be doing and from price itself to support any divergennce between it and an oscillator (s)
e. I began to understand where on a price chart such divergence was most 'valid' ie where it's indication was going to be of most use.

All of these things I found out through my own research and these observations beacme intrinsically part of my trading edge. I have since met with the trader whose postings first alerted me to it's potential usefullness and it is obvious to me that it wasn't that he didn't know and was just being selective/lucky, - he didn't want to say. I took the time and trouble to meet him even though he was some distance away from me , but he could sense I was serious and thought I was on to something. We have met a fgew times since and am still in touch today and havesince both shared our intelligence on the subject of divergence with each other. ...what transpired was that our observations/conclusions were surprisingly similar saving for one facet that he had found that I had overlooked and vice versa.

These was just one of the steps I took to develop my trading edge, and I am sure that others will have other stories of effort, diligence and sacrifice to get to that stage.

Having got to the stage of trading a fully developed trading edge do you think that such traders have any inclination in calling live trades to a bunch of traders who they will probably never meet, 90% of whom will not be around in 2 years time or will have flitted on to something else ? Do you really think they care what such folk think about them - ie wether they think that their postings are complete BS or have some merit ? Can anyone honestly think of any upside for such a trader in calling live trades when completely unremunerated to do so, because other than massaging the ego and gaining a hero status amongst anonymous internet users I can't. And for the record, if anyone does - try taking that newly gained Hero status to the bank - they won't cash it !! Fully formed rounded traders who lead rich and rewarding lives don't need such an ego massage...I would suggest that those who currenly fall short of that may be tempted by the idea.

G/L

 

[donaldduke]

The simple truth is that the successful traders who are busy trading have little or no time or even is they have the time (ie if they are are on a longer t/f trigger) they don't have the inclination to prove anything to anyone. If they post something/examples - believe them or don't believe them- but just do your own research.
G/L

Posting well chosen examples of winning trade setups, and never completely revealing your edge anyway, is a waste of time for everyone concerned, unless the poster is a vendor! in which case it may be time very well spent.

It is very difficult for a new trader to differentiate a profitable trader from a deluded trader/charlatan/snakeoil vendor. Sure the reader should do there own research but is difficult as there are at least 19 deluded posters for every 1 who knows what they are talking about.

 

[bbmac]

So, ignore it/them, and move on, and do your own research...,your decision to ignore their postings will be right or wrong, but it will be your decision based on the available information they have shared...ultimately you'll find what it is you are looking for - or you will give up and move on.

G/L

Posting well chosen examples of winning trade setups, and never completely revealing your edge anyway, is a waste of time for everyone concerned, unless the poster is a vendor! in which case it may be time very well spent.

It is very difficult for a new trader to differentiate a profitable trader from a deluded trader/charlatan/snakeoil vendor. Sure the reader should do there own research but is difficult as there are at least 19 deluded posters for every 1 who knows what they are talking about.

 

[tar]

Having got to the stage of trading a fully developed trading edge do you think that such traders have any inclination in calling live trades to a bunch of traders who they will probably never meet, 90% of whom will not be around in 2 years time or will have flitted on to something else ? Do you really think they care what such folk think about them - ie wether they think that their postings are complete BS or have some merit ? Can anyone honestly think of any upside for such a trader in calling live trades when completely unremunerated to do so, because other than massaging the ego and gaining a hero status amongst anonymous internet users I can't. And for the record, if anyone does - try taking that newly gained Hero status to the bank - they won't cash it !! Fully formed rounded traders who lead rich and rewarding lives don't need such an ego massage...I would suggest that those who currenly fall short of that may be tempted by the idea.

G/L

I could also say : what is the upside for those profitable traders to post setups after the event ? why they insist in doing this ? what's the point ? If they r really profitable why they post delayed calls ? to teach others ? ok , why not teach others by giving live examples ( winnings/losers) this will give more credibility for the setup and for the caller , in the other hand giving delayed calls or posting setups after the event continuously is suspicious and misleading because we all know that every setup works at some point but which one will give "positive expectancy" this is the real question .

BTW this is the 100th time you've mentioned your "trading edge" ok we get it mate , good for you , and good luck .

 

[bbmac]

.....we all know that every setup works at some point but which one will give "positive expectancy" this is the real question....

It is up to each trader to find their own trading edge (dare I use the term - Lol,) that has a positive expectancy...stop expecting to be spoon fed it. I could give you my edge and you probably wouldn't be able to trade it because I developed it for me for me, and vice versa probably...but whatever - members will take what they find to be interesting or move on to something that they believe will benefit them more.

For the avoidance of any doubt my own motivation for posting is as under;

The isolating nature of trading is a threat to my own trading...maybe I am being niaive but I believed that if I got involved in an online commnity it would help to ease that. I knew that if I got involved in such a community as T2W I would have to contribute and this is what I believe I have done. I am beginning to doubt that being involved in such a trading community fulfills that need and may have to look at sharing an office/being in an arcade as an alternative. It seems there is too much downside in contributing in that if you don't reveal your trading edge in full - it must be fake. If you contribute and discuss aspects of your trading edge, even publish the set-ups, this seemingly isn't enough.

In Posting examples of set-ups I have taken (or missed) shows that the confluence of the technical aspects I have widely outlined and detailed here can be useful. The specific combination of those is up to each trader to find based on their own needs/preferences , and if they put the work in they may find that they too can develop a trading edge with a positive expectancy - or indeed to ignore and move on to something they think can help them more/fits more with their own thinking. Over and aboive this I have posted in advance the areas at which I will be looking for set-ups.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is, I have published the exact methodology I have used to ascertain both chart conditions and potential support/resistance, that is 90% of the job - all anyone then has to do is decide on a trigger at those potential support/resistance zones (it could be just price action alone) in the context of the prevailing chart conditions (ie trending or ranging.) I have even published my indicator set-ups bthat form part of the full set-up I look for at those areas...I mean if that isn't enough then I don't know what is....I developed an edge with far less info using these techniques.


G/L

 

[Shakone]

I'm one of those who believes that it is how you manage the trade once in, choice of stop placement/adjustment, and choice of exit, that matter more than entry (which of course matters a great deal too). So given this perspective, rightly or wrongly, this means that setups after the fact are interesting, but only give a snapshot of a potential trade. They're only one small part of a trade. Whereas a live call, and then seeing someone move stop up, and give reasons, take partial profits, full profits etc, is far more what trading is about (to me!), and so far more educational and interesting.

What someone does with their trading journal should be up to them, and I don't think anyone should be compelled to post live calls, but I do respect the views of those who post live calls and succeed, more highly than the average poster. It's not something that is easy to do, and does take a lot of courage, and is also distracting to your trading.

 

[Devilicus]

What someone does with their trading journal should be up to them, and I don't think anyone should be compelled to post live calls, but I do respect the views of those who post live calls and succeed, more highly than the average poster. It's not something that is easy to do, and does take a lot of courage, and is also distracting to your trading.

x2

 

[tar]

stop expecting to be spoon fed it. I could give you my edge and you probably wouldn't be able to trade it because I developed it for me for me, and vice versa probably...but whatever - members will take what they find to be interesting or move on to something that they believe will benefit them more.

Let me clear something here , beside learning from other's mistakes i am not interested in their live calls/systems/edge , i even rarely read the Journals section , i am only making a point on the fact that delayed setups doesnt prove anything and it could be misleading sometimes . Of course nobody is obliged to give live calls or to reveal their edge "if they have one" . I want to add something here , live journals could be beneficial for the caller himself , he could use it as a tool to tweak and adjust his own trading system based on others contributions .

 

[timsk]

n_t,

The only thing I’ve seen from you is criticism for the way people run their journals. If you don’t like the way people run their journals how about starting one of your own and showing us all how it should be done, you know, lead by example. What people post in their journals is their own business and I personally have no complaints whatsoever, but I can understand how the absence of details in them can be irritating to those who haven’t got a clue about trading.

I'm not criticising anyone. I'm merely pointing out that I personally don't see the purpose of journals that don't provide any background information or even state what the objective of the journal is. Whether or not someone posts live trades in real time is completely besides the point. Oh, btw, thanks for the patronizing comment.

I know you and others wouldn’t understand, but risking your own money in a trade and posting about it live in a journal requires courage and a high level of concentration. However, posting pretty pictures with detailed annotations, even ones with the important bits blacked out, AFTER the event can be done by anyone at anytime and proves nothing. This forum and the whole internet is littered with that sort of garbage. Do you really think we need yet another journal filled with pretty pictures of charts with coloured lines under a ‘support’ level...or whatever.

Ha, another patronizing comment - you've excelled yourself n_t.

Somehow, you appear to have read all manner of things into my post that I didn't say. You're welcome to your own opinions, but please don't make any more wild assumptions about mine.
Thank you kindly.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Is this section up to scratch? From where i'm standing i'd say no.

Wot r your views?

I'll get u started. There are so many demos available, why not use a demo account for the purpose of a journal?

Post the lot, acc. statements, charts trades....why not?

To follow up a bit on what timsk was saying earlier, the idea of a journal section (which was introduced at the suggestion of members) was quite squarely as a resource for journalists for their use in a way and for a purpose** that suited them. What we might think of a journal, as readers, is of no account.

Thus, whether live trades or after the event analysis, it doesn't matter so long as it is suiting the journalist.


**carrying the usual dangers of underlying commercial motives which cause us so much heartache

jon