Spread betting..is it gambling or not?

[0007]

Depends what you mean !

Wiki's definition:

"Gambling has a specific economic definition, referring to wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period of time."

I suggest that whether or not you're gambling is dependent on whether you are a consistently successful trader or not. The method / vehicle you use is irrelevant. It's just that SB has a "gambling" repuation. Don't forget that our political know-alls are quite happy for the lottery companies to let us "play" the lottery "games" This infers some degree of skill is required whereas I've always thought the prerequisite is a low IQ or a propensity for gambling.

 

[mp6140]

I like it but try telling everyone you know that you are involved in
"the placing of a wager on a situation whose outcome is decided by learnable movements and momentum and observable patterns of price movement "
lol

At least it will shut them up and not call u a gambler.

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in the interests of brevity, clarity and that most people are now used to acrynoms for all types of groups and organizations, what about . . . . . . . . . . .

TPOAWOASWOIDBLMAMAOPOPM ?

personally, i would enjoy slowly turning to one who benifits me with the title of "gambler" , putting one or two puffs of my bitter smelling english tobacco in their faces and stating "my dear sir --- i do not gamble, which is for misfits, low lifes and thrill seekers ---- I engage in the placing of a wager on a situation whose outcome is decided by learnable movements and momentum and observable patterns of price movement !"

and then i amble away, contentedly puffing on my pipe, with the McGiver sisters on each arm as we jump into the Maserati !

works for me !

mp

 

[Crap Buddist]

Two tangentially relevant observations...

1. Nobody has picked-up on the massive difference between gambling where no/little skill is involved (bingo/roulette) and where it is (poker etc).

RGB.

Some peeps have , but its not their place to tell people how it is, how dare they rob others of the experience of discovery ?

But maybe we have relapses now n then ....

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.... well is it right to lead them to water in the first place? Nature is there to set these things up ?

 

[mp6140]

Some peeps have , but its not their place to tell people how it is, how dare they rob others of the experience of discovery ?

But maybe we have relapses now n then ....

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.... well is it right to lead them to water in the first place? Nature is there to set these things up ?

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as time has flown past me i look back at how NICE i used to be to newbs, and how often i heard others state stimply "let em learn like we did" ----- over a period of time i have vaccilated between one side of the street and the other (perhaps a bit too much "grog" some days ?)

Stuck with being a "nice guy", i perpetually and constantly warned of the dangers the newbs were approaching, learning later that they paid as much attention to me as they did to their parents or parole officers, which is to say NONE !

then they approached me with accounts in taters and asked for help, which being stupid i did --- sometimes clearing up the mess and sometimes even G-D couldnt do it, short of sending the world spinning backwards in time and eliminating the offending trades !

I "hardened" after that, and began wishing all newbs wanted to try underwater basket weaving or something of that ilk, and get the heck out of trading because I was so torn by trying to help, and wishing they were simply not there or would lose their money quitely and go away !

So now i guess I pretty much try to say what unfolds before them, probably aware that they wont listen, but it satisfies my soul that i have done my part although its futile.

they come like "starlets" into the Hollywood train station, from all over the world, and all they meet is a man wearing a trenchcoat, with a gleam in his eye and an "offer" to put them in the "movies" ----- and thats the end of that !

being a nice guy "bites !"

enjoy and trade well

mp

 

[bouniul]

My wife reckons spread betting/trading is just another form of gambling...the 'house' always wins.
I reckon she is partially right but feel it is more akin to playing poker i.e. an element of skill and discipline is involved to be successful and not just luck.

What are your thoughts?

:clap:for many people it's gambling, but for a few it's calculated risk.

 

[0007]

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...................... Stuck with being a "nice guy", i perpetually and constantly warned of the dangers the newbs were approaching, learning later that they paid as much attention to me as they did to their parents or parole officers, which is to say NONE ! ......................

mp

MP for every several hundred (million ?) like above there will be one who learned from your advice and will be eternally grateful. Contributions such as yours are never entirely wasted.

 

[mp6140]

:clap:for many people it's gambling, but for a few it's calculated risk.

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calculated, premeditated or throwing darts ---- the word RISK should NEVER be in there !

if one is at risk, then one is doing something VERY WRONG, because there is and never should be, any risk involved at all !

granted, if one enters a hospital and starts to do brain surgery there is risk --- unfortunately to the patient, but NO ONE can/should start any new endeavor without learning it first, and the process of learning is what eliminates the word RISK.

to be so uninformed as to think one will rush into a place that angels fear to tread, will end you up graveyard dead as far as your money is concerned ---- its a JOB, with its own rules and creed (which can also be spelled "greed") and to enter THAT arena, without your armour and weapons, has got to be the dumbest thing man can do !

mp

 

[nkruger]

Is going to university a gamble?

Nope.
It's a f**king doddle.

My eldest is there at the moment. The amount of work he's set (and expected to do) he could finnish in ONE YEAR if he worked a 40 hr week like normal people (us lot excluded obviously) It's an absolute scandal. And it'll probably cost £20K while he's there.

And people moan about a **I'll teach you how to trade** course that costs £1000 !! Bargain I say

 

[0007]

Hope.

It's a f**king doddle.

My eldest is there at the moment. The amount of work he's set (and expected to do) he could finnish in ONE YEAR if he worked a 40 hr week like normal people (us lot excluded obviously) It's an absolute scandal. And it'll probably cost £20K while he's there.

And people moan about a **I'll teach you how to trade** course that costs £1000 !! Bargain I say

18 month course crammed into 3 years in many cases (underwater basket weaving etc.)

 

[mp6140]

18 month course crammed into 3 years in many cases (underwater basket weaving etc.)

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well, here in the states a college degree (BA) is the minimum for any sort of decent job one does wearing a white collar and working in the city --- a graduate (MA) is even better and very much required when entering the business world, wanting to become the CEO in the next few weeks !

i TRIED, but my oldest looked at me and said -- "not for me sitting in front of a computer all day !" ======== laughing to myself, i never mentioned thats probably EXACTLY what she will be doing, but someone else will be the boss !

shes a "traveller", already having been to china, russia, europe --- and that was when she was in high school --- she took 2 semesters to study in england, so she likes to wander about i guess !

the youngest wants to "help" so shes studying psychology --- after spending $160K or so, ill let her tell me whats wrong with me, and that i should get a "job", like everyone else !

if youve never experienced the joy of children ----- DONT !

LOL

mp

 

[nkruger]

Nope.



And people moan about a **I'll teach you how to trade** course that costs £1000 !! Bargain I say

Please note, I am not an advocate of newbies spending £1000 on a course about trading. I was merely making a point.

I think you should teach yourself, with a few help ups on the way.

 

[toekneesee]

My wife reckons spread betting/trading is just another form of gambling...the 'house' always wins.
I reckon she is partially right but feel it is more akin to playing poker i.e. an element of skill and discipline is involved to be successful and not just luck.

What are your thoughts?

Hi,
I can see why people 'outside' think that trading in general is just another form of gambling - you can never eliminate all risk, so technically perhaps it always involves a gamble! ;-)

However, for me, it's a considered gamble and playing the percentage-game that makes the difference. For example, when you have a nice cyclical share like this, I believe the 'gamble' is minimised (just look at how regular this pattern is in the attached pic).

 

[mp6140]

Hi,
I can see why people 'outside' think that trading in general is just another form of gambling - you can never eliminate all risk, so technically perhaps it always involves a gamble! ;-)

However, for me, it's a considered gamble and playing the percentage-game that makes the difference. For example, when you have a nice cyclical share like this, I believe the 'gamble' is minimised (just look at how regular this pattern is in the attached pic).

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guess we gots 2 different thingies happening here, first being the "SEMANTICS" side of the discussion and the second being the "ACCEPTED REALITY" of the situation !

by definition, one pretty much has to admit that forex looks like some form of "gambling" --- especially when we use words like "bets" and such, but the reality of the situation is that for anyone who has learned through experience, what the market is, THERE IS NO GAMBLING INVOLVED --- its a pretty simple situation, more akin to throwing a rock across a pond (although one COULD easily bet on whether the rock would make it or not !)

what the public sees is "nothing" --- they do not understand how the market works and therefore placing money on price movement appears to be gambling because there is NO apparent predictability about it. What the "experienced" trader sees is a roadmap to where the price is going, and therefore is given the ability to place "trades" based on fairly predictable movements, which REMOVES the "gambling" label.

i am truly getting a bit miffed over hearing the "gambling" vs "not gambling" situation although ill still kinda go along with "are you gambling with SB's ?"

one person has pointed out, due to the laws in UK, that trading with SB's IS LEGALLY CONSIDERED GAMBLING, and that one cannot gain credit, buy a house or get that new Aston Martin very easily ---- its a bit different here in the states, as we pay taxes on gambling and by paying taxes we gain "legitimacy" which allows us to live fairly normal lives !

so i guess what i say is ----- EDUCATED TRADING IS NOT GAMBLING and trading with a SB IS GAMBLING, BY DEFINITION AND LAW !

mp

 

[toekneesee]

The thing that makes me feel sure that there's more to it all than just pure 'gambling', is that even though I consider myself a relative newbie/novice, I just don't believe I would have had any success at all without some 'method' (i.e. without there being some reasoning behind it all). I feel sure that if it were all just one big gamble, I would've lost all my money by now! ;-)

 

[mp6140]

The thing that makes me feel sure that there's more to it all than just pure 'gambling', is that even though I consider myself a relative newbie/novice, I just don't believe I would have had any success at all without some 'method' (i.e. without there being some reasoning behind it all). I feel sure that if it were all just one big gamble, I would've lost all my money by now! ;-)

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I REST MY CASE !!!

mp

 

[FXSCALPER2]

People tend to have a problem distinguishing between fact and opinion if they hold their opinions strongly enough and argue just because of ego issues.

Whether or not a game is a gamble is something that can be demonstrated mathematically. For example, If you play roulette you are gambling because your expected value is negative. In the American game, there is a probability of 1/38 that you would win 35 times the bet, and a 37/38 chance that you would lose your bet, leaving you with an expected value of -0.0526.

-1*37/38 + 35*1/38 = -0.0526.

In other words, the casino has a 5.26% edge. If you play this game long enough, you will lose your money, guaranteed.

Going long and short EURUSD with IG index or CMC is not gambling and no one can show that it is. You know why? Because it is a factually incorrect claim, that is why. In order to know whether someone would lose or not, you have to know specifically what they are doing and have all the numbers in front of you to do the calculation. To say SB is gambling without knowing about specific circumstances is just ignorant and a waste of time, as well as being a useless and inaccurate claim.

 

[mp6140]

People tend to have a problem distinguishing between fact and opinion if they hold their opinions strongly enough and argue just because of ego issues.

Whether or not a game is a gamble is something that can be demonstrated mathematically. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

being a dumb bunny that did poorly (and continues forever proving the same) in most forms of math past the multiplication tables, i prefer to discuss through the use of both our languages, which while being a tad different, as we are from the aussies also, at least gets us CLOSE !

As i stated, by LAW and common language DEFINITION, those who think the markets, as played with spread betters, IS gambling HAVE to be correct ----- when faced by LAW, THE REVENUE DEPT and COMMON ACCEPTANCE, its just hard to beat or argue THAT HAND !

Going long and short EURUSD with IG index or CMC is not gambling and no one can show that it is. You know why? Because it is a factually incorrect claim, that is why. In order to know whether someone would lose or not, you have to know specifically what they are doing and have all the numbers in front of you to do the calculation. To say SB is gambling without knowing about specific circumstances is just ignorant and a waste of time, as well as being a useless and inaccurate claim.

As simply stated above, in the UK, trading with the use of spread betters IS GAMBLING --- if the LAW says so, then i will live with that and not with philosophy !

as far as the "reality" of trading EURUSD, education and experience replace any "LUCK" one may have and transfer what is "gambling", seen through the eyes of the general public, into simple educated work !

enjoy and trade well

mp

 

[pseudo straddle]

Going long and short EURUSD with IG index or CMC is not gambling

Shhhh! Don't tell the Britash Government that!

:innocent:

 

[mp6140]

Shhhh! Don't tell the Britash Government that!

:innocent:

IGNORE PREVIOUS TELEGRAM !!!!!!!

 

[leftvan]

Spread betting IS gambling

Weigh up the risks and benefits. The odds are not in your favour with spread betting. Beating the spread in the allocated time frame and allowing for all the random day to day noise in any market is a big ask. But remember you can't just rely on beating the spread, you must whip it well and truely. This requires great skill in trading, psychology and a favourable risk/benefit ratio. In any field a few will be successful, and the dreams of success will mean you will listen to those select few. Ask yourself a prudent question:
Spread betting companies are businesses - ie. they're out to make money, why do you think they are so desperate for clients? Why do you think there's so many of them? Why do you think they keep updating their sites with new layouts and gadgets - it's to keep you interested. As long as you're interested, you will "trade" (gamble), and eventually they will win. You will never be as solvent as the spreadbetting company. High risks equal high rewards. If you can find a system where low risk equals high reward, you'll be minted. Until then, stick with low risk and reap lower rewards and don't limit yourself to a pre-defined time frame. And don't worry about the tax, certainly when your trading skills are that good that the tax is effecting your profits THEN diversify.