Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

Re: The tax situation of traders, WAS:- Re: Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

I'm aware of that (that "Just because you use a SB Co. does not mean that you're exempt from tax."), but (as usually happens) you have now side-stepped my question about how tax is assessed for the non-spread-betting trader. For the purposes of my question, please let's ignore spread-betting (and horse-racing, and poker) for the moment: Are you only paying CGT on your trading income, and how do you know that HMIT/HMRC won't slap a PAYE assessment on you? (or if you prefer to keep this impersonal you could write about an anonymous third party whom you happen to know makes an income mainly from trading and have a rough idea of his tax status .... I'm trying to get away with purely theoretical situations, because that gets us nowhere).

Let's put this to bed once and for all, please. This is my final answer on this subject.

My tax status is my business. If you want to know how your own tax status might be affected by your trading activities, I suggest you contact your local HMRC office or visit their website.
 
Hi Francis,

TG i suggest you read http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...ital-may-have-pay-up-7-7-million-clients.html and in particular post 8 by black swan.

This goes for others leading others down the merry path by these pied pipers. You have no idea who these people are on these forums.

I've read it. So what? I'm not leading anyone a merry dance. I suggest to anyone that asks me that they do their own research where brokers are concerned. If you've done yours and you don't much care for SLM then I suggest you take your money elsewhere.

You originally asked about the advantages of SLM over Alpari, so I answered that question. However it now seems Alan is too busy playing golf to answer my questions! Perhaps you can answer on his behalf? You don't by any chance happen to know if his spot forex broker is Alpari, do you? Whoever they might be, it doesn't sound like he's awfully keen on paying the extra costs associated with trading on a "supervised and regulated" exchange.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Hi Francis,

My comments have probably become more generalised and diluted the original point and i aplogise but the facts were, that i was getting slipped. The spread then went to 1pip on EU 24 hours (great move). Its now going to variable with 1.5 target (TG - so what would SLM's variable been at 9.30am?).

How on Earth am I supposed to know? I'm afraid I don't possess a time machine, or a crystal ball. Ask me again in a few weeks, when I've had a chance to do my own research.

Jim
 
Hi Francis,



I've read it. So what? I'm not leading anyone a merry dance. I suggest to anyone that asks me that they do their own research where brokers are concerned. If you've done yours and you don't much care for SLM then I suggest you take your money elsewhere.

You originally asked about the advantages of SLM over Alpari, so I answered that question. However it now seems Alan is too busy playing golf to answer my questions! Perhaps you can answer on his behalf? You don't by any chance happen to know if his spot forex broker is Alpari, do you? Whoever they might be, it doesn't sound like he's awfully keen on paying the extra costs associated with trading on a "supervised and regulated" exchange.

Cheers,

Jim

I did answer your question. You asked me what the spread was, on cable, at 09.30. I didn't know. I do know that, yesterday, my broker was quoting a spread of 5.5 pts on USD/DKK, whereas the SBs would have been approximately triple or quadruple that.

Spot Forex does not have a centralised exchange which is why it is open to price manipulation by Market Makers. The banks that quote EU at 01.00 (GMT) will not be the same banks that quote at 08.00 and by 18.00 that will have changed too.

In the past I have traded Dow, S&P & Russell 2k futures so, have experience of trading through a proper exchange such as CME or CBOT.
 
"Eventually" there will be a cure for cancer and other awful diseases. That will, probably, happen before the SB industry gets regulated properly.

hello all...
Just to add to that Alan.. totally off topic i know, but re cures, it's already happened many moons ago..just type these in to youtube and watch all of them if you have time between trades....(these are just two of a few)

Alternative cancer therapy, B17 (1 of 5) - G. E. Griffin
Amazing: how to cure cancer & HIV (Dr. Bob Beck) -part 1/13

ask yourself why this has been surpressed by the WHO and Big Pharma and governments for so long?
Answer, because the Banking cartel elite own Governments & Big Pharma along with all media corporates etc etc.. illness = money and will eventually aid their depopulation goal. If you think this is far fetched look further into Jane Burgermeister. that's just one avenue of many this " New Word Order" are travelling down to gain total future control of us your children and your children's children.There are many more believe me...manipulated financial crisis, false flag terror attacks, "man made" global warming, war.... check it out.. the facts are out there..


on the SB front... anyone any updates on their dealings with SLM?

good luck
 
Morning Alan,

I did answer your question. You asked me what the spread was, on cable, at 09.30. I didn't know. I do know that, yesterday, my broker was quoting a spread of 5.5 pts on USD/DKK, whereas the SBs would have been approximately triple or quadruple that.

Spot Forex does not have a centralised exchange which is why it is open to price manipulation by Market Makers. The banks that quote EU at 01.00 (GMT) will not be the same banks that quote at 08.00 and by 18.00 that will have changed too.

In the past I have traded Dow, S&P & Russell 2k futures so, have experience of trading through a proper exchange such as CME or CBOT.

It seems that laudably you don't comment on things you don't know about. Do you have any experience spread betting via MT4, with SLM for example?

Why do you trade spot forex if it's "open to price manipulation by Market Makers"?

Cheers,

Jim

P.S. SLM's fixed spread on USD/DKK is currently 10, which is less than twice 5.5
 
Re: The tax situation of traders, WAS:- Re: Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

Let's put this to bed once and for all, please. This is my final answer on this subject.

My tax status is my business. If you want to know how your own tax status might be affected by your trading activities, I suggest you contact your local HMRC office or visit their website.

I thought I made it clear I wasn't interested in your tax status. I wanted an ilustration of the general case. You could have used (in very general terms) you own experience to back up some of the statements you have made, or you could have taken an anonymous third party that you knew of, or just quoted the tax law, as you understood it.


As usual, people who say that SB is rubbish and then go on to say that the tax advantages are overstated never actually back it up with fact.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you may actually know what you are talking about, but can't be bothered to explain, and not take the less charitable explanation that you are a "barrack room" or barstool tax-expert who doesn't know much.

Anyway, goodbye Alan. Go off in a huff at my "intrusive" questions if that's what you want. No one forced you to say anything, but you made some claims which you never backed up. Meanwhile, if anyone who actually knows the true situation, and can explain with a few examples (based on something like reality, but it doesn't have to give away any secrets).

If someone asked me the same question, I could quite easily frame a generalised answer without compromising any private information. Hypothetical income; hypothetical allowable expenses; notional allowances; then do the arithmetic.

I think what you have actually proved by your <drum roll>"final answer"<drum>, is that the tax situation of traders is far from clear cut, and in truth, is a bit of a minefield, and the innocent spread-better who in previous life only ever paid tax on a wage or salary via bog-standard PAYE will be letting himself in for a deal of headaches once he starts dealing with HMIT/HMRC on a regular basis, assuming he takes the advice given regularly and routinely on T2W to "stop that spread betting lark - it's a con - and try some real trading ™!".
 
Wrong thread for health/Pharma discussion I think, fascinating though it is.

Ticking over ok with SLM at the moment. No complaints so far.

yeah soz montmorencyt2w.. thought it was relevant at the time.. but another thread maybe a good idea for that...

good to see no complaints on the SB front.. good luck with it..
 
Morning Alan,



It seems that laudably you don't comment on things you don't know about. Do you have any experience spread betting via MT4, with SLM for example?

Why do you trade spot forex if it's "open to price manipulation by Market Makers"?

Cheers,

Jim

P.S. SLM's fixed spread on USD/DKK is currently 10, which is less than twice 5.5

No; I don't have experience of spread betting via the MT4 platform. To the best of my knowledge, SLM are the only SB Co. to offer this facility.

You have assumed, incorrectly, that I am trading with a Market Maker. I trade directly with a major bank, on behalf of the investor whose funds I manage. The reason I trade spot forex is that the market is open 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. I use a customised EA that opens, closes and manages trades on 16 currency pairs, even while I sleep. I don't know of any other group of markets, futures or otherwise, that cointegrate in quite the same way that fx does.
 
Morning Alan,

No; I don't have experience of spread betting via the MT4 platform. To the best of my knowledge, SLM are the only SB Co. to offer this facility.

If you "don't have experience of spread betting via the MT4 platform" with SLM, then why have you made so many comments on this thread?

You have assumed, incorrectly, that I am trading with a Market Maker. I trade directly with a major bank, on behalf of the investor whose funds I manage.

I wasn't assuming anything. I was merely trying to establish why you said that you trade "Spot forex via a broker." in one comment, and then "Spot Forex does not have a centralised exchange which is why it is open to price manipulation by Market Makers" in a subsequent one.

The reason I trade spot forex is that the market is open 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. I use a customised EA that opens, closes and manages trades on 16 currency pairs, even while I sleep. I don't know of any other group of markets, futures or otherwise, that cointegrate in quite the same way that fx does.

Me neither. However I wouldn't dream of leaving large quantities of other people's money to the tender mercies of an MT4 multi-currency EA, which it sounds as though you are doing.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Morning Alan,



If you "don't have experience of spread betting via the MT4 platform" with SLM, then why have you made so many comments on this thread?



I wasn't assuming anything. I was merely trying to establish why you said that you trade "Spot forex via a broker." in one comment, and then "Spot Forex does not have a centralised exchange which is why it is open to price manipulation by Market Makers" in a subsequent one.



Me neither. However I wouldn't dream of leaving large quantities of other people's money to the tender mercies of an MT4 multi-currency EA, which it sounds as though you are doing.

Cheers,

Jim

but you have a website with a fair bit on EA's and your banging on about how people can use SLM for tax savings because you can automate with SLM / MT4?

but when it comes to the crux of it, you wouldn't dream of running an EA on a managed account???????

hellllllllllllllloooooooooooo? anyone in?

what is the point TG? All sounds a bit perverse to me.

What would you use on an automated managed account? only tradestation? some proprietary software?

because it comes across that deep down you don't have faith in any MT4 EA. (which is why i have my autoclickers on web platforms)

Why are you telling me about the benefits of MT4 and SLM?

Think you need to change your name mate, because im seeing the mike myers version here.
 
Morning Alan,



If you "don't have experience of spread betting via the MT4 platform" with SLM, then why have you made so many comments on this thread?

I wasn't assuming anything. I was merely trying to establish why you said that you trade "Spot forex via a broker." in one comment, and then "Spot Forex does not have a centralised exchange which is why it is open to price manipulation by Market Makers" in a subsequent one.

Me neither. However I wouldn't dream of leaving large quantities of other people's money to the tender mercies of an MT4 multi-currency EA, which it sounds as though you are doing.

Cheers,

Jim

I don 't know what your objectives are here but, I get the feeling that your trading knowledge is limited.

Let me deal with your points in order:-

1. The reason I made comments here is because one of the contributors was complaining about slippage with SLM. Having had similar experiences with SB Cos, I felt that it was appropriate to let him know that he is not the only one that this has happened to..

2. You, obviously, don't know the difference between an ECN broker and a market maker.

3. Don't comment on things you know ***k all about
 
Hi Francis,

but you have a website with a fair bit on EA's and your banging on about how people can use SLM for tax savings because you can automate with SLM / MT4?

If I may quote from my home page:

"Forex brokers that support micro-lots do provide an interesting service, in that they allow people to dip their toes in the murky waters of trading without risking too many of the hard earned shirts on their backs."

The same thing applies to SB brokers that offer 10p/pip.

When it comes to the crux of it, you wouldn't dream of running an EA on a managed account???????

hellllllllllllllloooooooooooo? anyone in?

what is the point TG? All sounds a bit perverse to me.

It may sound perverse to you Francis, but personally I reckon it's better to find out if you're one of the mythical 5% that can supposedly make money from trading using a demo account or micro lots, instead of diving in the deep end with e-minis or whatever.

What would you use on an automated managed account? only tradestation? some proprietary software?

Proprietary software.

It comes across that deep down you don't have faith in any MT4 EA.

It's not that deep down Francis. See my home page for example.

Why are you telling me about the benefits of MT4 and SLM?

You asked a question. I answered it, albeit somewhat briefly initially! See above, for the benefits as I see them. Your mileage may differ of course.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Morning Alan,

I don 't know what your objectives are here but, I get the feeling that your trading knowledge is limited.

Let me deal with your points in order:-

1. The reason I made comments here is because one of the contributors was complaining about slippage with SLM. Having had similar experiences with SB Cos, I felt that it was appropriate to let him know that he is not the only one that this has happened to..

2. You, obviously, don't know the difference between an ECN broker and a market maker.

3. Don't comment on things you know ***k all about

Let me deal with all your points simultaneously. Why don't you go take a look at http://trading-gurus.com/tag/ecn/ ?

Cheers,

Jim
 
Hi Paul I would like to point you in the direction of this article which you personally are talking about fixed and variable spreads. I'd like to point out in particular the parts in red.

Dealing Desk or No Dealing Desk – That is the Question!
2
Smart Live Markets are proud of their dealing desk and their fixed spreads.

Pricing

Pricing is not just about spread, which many people think. It is about consistency of spread. If it starts to get a little busy or volatile and the spread widens, well that is when most people like to trade, so not much use there.

Smart Live Markets quote a 1 point fixed spread. This price comes from those same 10 banks that are feeding an STP company their price. But we keep ours fixed. Five seconds before Non Farm Payrolls we are still 1 point wide. How about an STP company? 5, 10 or 20 wide? Well there's service for you!

Also bear in mind that stop loss orders are triggered based on these prices. So if a price widens to say 10 points on or before figures then you might be stopped out. When you call up to complain you will be told by the Non Dealing Desk employee (who probably knows about as much about FX as I do about bio molecular nuclear physics), that the market must have been there for the order to have been triggered, so tough. With us of course, fixed at 1 point wide, you would not have been stopped.

Sure there are some currency pairs that in quieter times may get narrower than our fixed spreads, but to be fair, not by much. So you have to weigh up the pros and cons. Personally I would always rather know what spread I am going to get, as you might go into a trade on a 1 point spread but have to get out of it on say 5 points.



Personally I like fixed spreads and having the certainty that, barring something catastrophic, I know I will be able to close a trade on the same size spread as when I opened it.

I

Original source:http://trading-gurus.com/dealing-desk-or-no-dealing-desk-that-is-the-question/

What will SLM spread be before an NFP announcement? Is it going to now be "5, 10 or 20 wide?

Now these was written by you, would you care to comment on why in this article you have sold fixed spreads as the best thing for clients but are SLM are now changing to the opposite of this?

I would also like to point you to an earlier post of mine that I would like you to answer for me may if you may. Here is a link to it:http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spread-betting/93212-smart-live-markets-spread-bet-mt4-136.html I'm referring to post #1087

Thanks.
 
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Hi JD,

Hi Paul I would like to point you in the direction of this article which you personally are talking about fixed and variable spreads. I'd like to point out in particular the parts in red.

Any chance you can edit your post to make your point rather more succinctly? We do sometimes get a trifle hot under the collar when people repost our content en masse without requesting permission first.

Cheers,

Jim
 
Hi JD,



Any chance you can edit your post to make your point rather more succinctly? We do sometimes get a trifle hot under the collar when people repost our content en masse without requesting permission first.

Cheers,

Jim

Sorry Jim that was why I also included the original source. Would you mind If I just leave the parts in red in?

Thanks
JD
 
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