Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

[alan5616]

If the SB doesn't like your trading style they are free to close your account. There is nothing you or anybody else can do about it. Constant manipulation on the other hand by flagging a client, should result that a SB lose their SB license if not corrected.

But, it doesn't happen. I'd love to see a regulatory body, with teeth, nail these f*ckers with a £1million fine for every transgression

 

[alan5616]

Exactly what MIFID was supposed to address.

If we were criminals or bogus asylum seekers, then we'd have no problem in getting the EU to stamp down on the SBs & MMs. Unfortunately, we're law abiding, tax paying citizens who, collectively, contribute £50 million a day, to this EU scam.

 

[gle101]

If we were criminals or bogus asylum seekers, then we'd have no problem in getting the EU to stamp down on the SBs & MMs. Unfortunately, we're law abiding, tax paying citizens who, collectively, contribute £50 million a day, to this EU scam.

Aren't you getting ahead of yourself a little bit. If you have such a long experience you should like me know that things have improved considerably in the last year alone. I do think that eventually the SB industry will get in line of regulation and improve their service even more.

 

[Ross Spur]

If we were criminals or bogus asylum seekers, then we'd have no problem in getting the EU to stamp down on the SBs & MMs. Unfortunately, we're law abiding, tax paying citizens who, collectively, contribute £50 million a day, to this EU scam.

Any hint of racism would have them all closed down immediately.

 

[alan5616]

Aren't you getting ahead of yourself a little bit. If you have such a long experience you should like me know that things have improved considerably in the last year alone. I do think that eventually the SB industry will get in line of regulation and improve their service even more.

"Eventually" there will be a cure for cancer and other awful diseases. That will, probably, happen before the SB industry gets regulated properly.

 

[easytimes]

I think all that has happened is that the SB market has got more competitive so it's in their interests not to screw too many or too much meaning they potentially lose future revenues. I don't think they like the idea of automation running on their platforms either this is where I'm hoping SM will force the hand of the other major players. As to regulation on them well all I can see is that they use that merely as a marketing tool to say hey guys look we're regulated we're safe! Other than that it's done nothing to control practices they get up to.

 

[Trading Gurus]

Morning Alan,

"Eventually" there will be a cure for cancer and other awful diseases. That will, probably, happen before the SB industry gets regulated properly.

So you trade futures, and pay tax? Futures are regulated properly, after all.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[alan5616]

Morning Alan,



So you trade futures, and pay tax? Futures are regulated properly, after all.

Cheers,

Jim

Whether you trade spot forex or futures, your profits will be taxable if those trades are made through a broker. It is only bets made with SB companies where there is no CGT liability.

 

[Trading Gurus]

Hi Alan,

Whether you trade spot forex or futures, your profits will be taxable if those trades are made through a broker. It is only bets made with SB companies where there is no CGT liability.

I'm aware of that. See http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...e-markets-spread-bet-mt4-138.html#post1425666

You haven't answered my question though. Do you trade spot forex, or futures, or SB, or....?

Jim

 

[montmorencyt2w]

If we were criminals or bogus asylum seekers, then we'd have no problem in getting the EU to stamp down on the SBs & MMs. Unfortunately, we're law abiding, tax paying citizens who, collectively, contribute £50 million a day, to this EU scam.

Have to smile at this. Yes, I'm a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen, but I'm very happy not to be paying tax (so far) on my spread-betting income, and intensely hope this state of affairs may continue.

 

[alan5616]

Hi Alan,



I'm aware of that. See http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...e-markets-spread-bet-mt4-138.html#post1425666

You haven't answered my question though. Do you trade spot forex, or futures, or SB, or....?

Jim

Spot forex via a broker.

 

[alan5616]

Have to smile at this. Yes, I'm a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen, but I'm very happy not to be paying tax (so far) on my spread-betting income, and intensely hope this state of affairs may continue.

If you're trading high turnover then there's, often, not much difference between paying CGT and tax-free betting.

 

[Trading Gurus]

Hi Alan,

Spot forex via a broker.

OK - So I assume you must be confident your spot forex broker doesn't indulge in any of the foul practices you accuse the SB companies of? Do you happen to know what the spread of your chosen broker was for cable around 9:30 AM this morning for example?

Jim

 

[montmorencyt2w]

The tax situation of traders, WAS:- Re: Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

If you're trading high turnover then there's, often, not much difference between paying CGT and tax-free betting.

Forgive me, but this is the kind of vague statement I'm always seeing here on T2W. Whenever I try to pursue it, it usually disappears behind a welter of anti-SB diatribe, or accusations that I am(we are not) not a "real trader(s)". (At some point, someone will usually advise employing an accountant). Hopefully this will be an exception:-

Can you give me an example of how it works with CGT (you don't have to compare with tax-free betting). Just tell me, in general terms, how the arithmetic works for you, when you are trading and being taxed via CGT. (I'm not trying to pry into your income; I'm trying to find out exactly what the situation is. In the past I've had too many vague statements, or bald statements that did not seem to stack up when I tried to verify them).

Please see my recent post on the "overnight financing" thread.
So, if I may ask, are you only paying CGT on your trading income, or do you pay income tax as well? If only CGT, did you have to argue with HMRC at all, over not paying income tax (and NIC)? Also, if only CGT, what standard allowances are you getting before CGT kicks in (I'm not talking about your expenses, but the "standard" allowances (which don't seem to be exactly standard, from what I can gather).

 

[alan5616]

Hi Alan,



OK - So I assume you must be confident your spot forex broker doesn't indulge in any of the foul practices you accuse the SB companies of? Do you happen to know what the spread of your chosen broker was for cable around 9:30 AM this morning for example?

Jim

I have no idea what their spread was at that time. I was getting set to hit a short iron in to the 3rd green

 

[francisfinley]

Hi Alan,



OK - So I assume you must be confident your spot forex broker doesn't indulge in any of the foul practices you accuse the SB companies of? Do you happen to know what the spread of your chosen broker was for cable around 9:30 AM this morning for example?

Jim

TG i suggest you read http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...ital-may-have-pay-up-7-7-million-clients.html and in particular post 8 by black swan.

This goes for others leading others down the merry path by these pied pipers. You have no idea who these people are on these forums.

My comments have probably become more generalised and diluted the original point and i aplogise but the facts were, that i was getting slipped. The spread then went to 1pip on EU 24 hours (great move). Its now going to variable with 1.5 target (TG - so what would SLM's variable been at 9.30am?). The slippage appears to have stopped (again good).

Just because someone puts out spreadbetting on MT4 doesn't mean they are good or bad. I know I sound like a total contradiction but FFS complain like I have, I was being slipped on SB'ing in normal conditions. For some of you to sit there and say "ill stick with it," "tax savings are better than an efficient platform," makes me wonder why i bother posting here at all, you just don't get it do you?

No wonder 99% of companies (any industry) don't give a flying v about their customers.

Please stop this nonsense of advocating tax savings are better than a functioning platform (i dont care about any other argument of cost/benefit analysis - this was the point i was trying to make, i spreadbet and my comparison was of an established mt4 provider, i use autoclickers on the other vendors web platforms), because im afraid the jury is out on this one, and as always..... time will tell.

Traders accounts have been closed with people like ODL for being too profitable - this is a fact. Some of you may have accepted this but don't let the impressionable noobs forget about this fact - Think about it. Look out for each other and as a collective you have the power to change and not accept what is given to you.

If these bucket shops exist or malpractices happen lets shout it from the rooftops and get it changed instead of accepting it.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...e-markets-spread-bet-mt4-122.html#post1399636

 

[alan5616]

Re: The tax situation of traders, WAS:- Re: Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

Forgive me, but this is the kind of vague statement I'm always seeing here on T2W. Whenever I try to pursue it, it usually disappears behind a welter of anti-SB diatribe, or accusations that I am(we are not) not a "real trader(s)". (At some point, someone will usually advise employing an accountant). Hopefully this will be an exception:-

Can you give me an example of how it works with CGT (you don't have to compare with tax-free betting). Just tell me, in general terms, how the arithmetic works for you, when you are trading and being taxed via CGT. (I'm not trying to pry into your income; I'm trying to find out exactly what the situation is. In the past I've had too many vague statements, or bald statements that did not seem to stack up when I tried to verify them).

Please see my recent post on the "overnight financing" thread.
So, if I may ask, are you only paying CGT on your trading income, or do you pay income tax as well? If only CGT, did you have to argue with HMRC at all, over not paying income tax (and NIC)? Also, if only CGT, what standard allowances are you getting before CGT kicks in (I'm not talking about your expenses, but the "standard" allowances (which don't seem to be exactly standard, from what I can gather).

I cannot give you a specific answer to this for a very good reason. Just because you use a SB Co. does not mean that you're exempt from tax. Yes, you're not subject to CGT but, if HMRC consider that successful spread betting is your main source of income, they can slap a PAYE assessment on you.

It comes under a similar category as professional poker players and horse race betting.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Hi Alan,



OK - So I assume you must be confident your spot forex broker doesn't indulge in any of the foul practices you accuse the SB companies of? Do you happen to know what the spread of your chosen broker was for cable around 9:30 AM this morning for example?

Jim

Exactly the point I was pondering. Spot Forex brokers are market-makers aren't they? In what way are they not likely to indulge in the practices usually ascribed here to spread-betting firms?


FXCM, for example, make great play of not trading against their clients, and their PR on this matter is certainly impressive on the face of it. But if I stand back from that for a minute, and ask myself: in what way are FXCM not market-makers? - I am not sure what the answer is. It would seem that the people behind the US lawsuit are not sure, either.


To try to answer my own question, I searched, and found this, which is a bit old, but sort of addresses the question:

http://blogs.fxstreet.com/francesc/...s-to-the-open-letter-to-top-fx-industry-ceos/

7 - For many, the very business model of Forex brokerage firms that needs to be decided is whether or not such brokerage houses can take opposite trading positions to those held by their customers, i.e., trading ‘against them’, which contradicts traders’ well-being. What is your company position on this? How do you hedge your customers’ trades?
We believe that No Dealing Desk model is best for both trader and broker, and FXCM is totally committed to it. Over 99.9% of our business is conducted on this model.

FXCM was primarily a market maker until the end of 2006, when we took a 180 degree turn to the agency execution model. So we know the market-making business. Currently, many of our competitors believe that because volatility has returned, market making is the more profitable business model. That is true — in the short term. Long-term, however, the no dealing desk system is better for both the broker and the client, for several reasons.

OK, let's just take that at face-value for a minute. Now, if we go over to the CMC thread in this part of the forum, we will find Peter Cruddas (not a man to be ignored, I don't think), claiming that CMC also now has a "No Dealing Desk" approach to spread-betting. If he is correct, what is the advantage (if any) that FXCM has (for the customer) over CMC?

Now, I may have read too much into what he has written, but I've sort of got the impression from Simon Denham of LCG that they too are heading in the NDD direction, which would presumably also apply to their white labels. (And LCG's Prospreads is already supposed to be providing a "DMA-like" experience for spread-betters).


Not to get too rosy-spectacled about this, but we could just be entering a golden age of spread-betting, especially as we are still getting favourable tax treatment in the UK, for the time being (I never assume that this situation will never change; in fact I think it will change).

 

[alan5616]

TG i suggest you read http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...ital-may-have-pay-up-7-7-million-clients.html and in particular post 8 by black swan.

This goes for others leading others down the merry path by these pied pipers. You have no idea who these people are on these forums.

My comments have probably become more generalised and diluted the original point and i aplogise but the facts were, that i was getting slipped. The spread then went to 1pip on EU 24 hours (great move). Its now going to variable with 1.5 target (TG - so what would SLM's variable been at 9.30am?). The slippage appears to have stopped (again good).

Just because someone puts out spreadbetting on MT4 doesn't mean they are good or bad. I know I sound like a total contradiction but FFS complain like I have, I was being slipped on SB'ing in normal conditions. For some of you to sit there and say "ill stick with it," "tax savings are better than an efficient platform," makes me wonder why i bother posting here at all, you just don't get it do you?

No wonder 99% of companies (any industry) don't give a flying v about their customers.

Please stop this nonsense of advocating tax savings are better than a functioning platform (i dont care about any other argument of cost/benefit analysis - this was the point i was trying to make, i spreadbet and my comparison was of an established mt4 provider, i use autoclickers on the other vendors web platforms), because im afraid the jury is out on this one, and as always..... time will tell.

Traders accounts have been closed with people like ODL for being too profitable - this is a fact. Some of you may have accepted this but don't let the impressionable noobs forget about this fact - Think about it. Look out for each other and as a collective you have the power to change and not accept what is given to you.

If these bucket shops exist or malpractices happen lets shout it from the rooftops and get it changed instead of accepting it.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spr...e-markets-spread-bet-mt4-122.html#post1399636

Amen, brother; Amen

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Re: The tax situation of traders, WAS:- Re: Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

I cannot give you a specific answer to this for a very good reason. Just because you use a SB Co. does not mean that you're exempt from tax. Yes, you're not subject to CGT but, if HMRC consider that successful spread betting is your main source of income, they can slap a PAYE assessment on you.

It comes under a similar category as professional poker players and horse race betting.

I'm aware of that (that "Just because you use a SB Co. does not mean that you're exempt from tax."), but (as usually happens) you have now side-stepped my question about how tax is assessed for the non-spread-betting trader. For the purposes of my question, please let's ignore spread-betting (and horse-racing, and poker) for the moment: Are you only paying CGT on your trading income, and how do you know that HMIT/HMRC won't slap a PAYE assessment on you? (or if you prefer to keep this impersonal you could write about an anonymous third party whom you happen to know makes an income mainly from trading and have a rough idea of his tax status .... I'm trying to get away from purely theoretical situations, because that gets us nowhere).