Sept 11: 2yrs on- is the world a safer place?

[barjon]

..................The USA went all out for revenge etc. after 911, swaddled in fine words and as we now know what a disaster it has been..............

Revenge? Maybe, but something had to be done about state-sponsored terrorism and the reaction certainly did it.

 

[Predicabo]

Africa will sort itself out as long as we let the Chinese get on with what they're doing there.


If the Chinese get to do in Africa what they have done in Tibet then the Africans are in for a nasty shock !!

Totally different set of factors. Tibet depends, apart from a miniscule tourist element, almost totally upon subsistence agriculture. It has no mineral wealth, a very small labour force, no industrial infrastructure, impossibly large natural barriers to physical infrastructure development of any kind and has no strategic geographical importance other than militarily as in occupying it means nobody else can, without a fight anyway.

There would be no benefit for the Chinese in adopting anything other than their current mode of use of and conduct in Africa in developing it for their own purposes as a provider of cheap labour, minerals, products and eventually, services.

As an aside, China's biggest headache militarily is defending the coastal plain east of the mountainous regions in the west: slap bang where the US has decided to start ramping up it's 'support' for the region. Who'd have thought.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

If the Chinese get to do in Africa what they have done in Tibet then the Africans are in for a nasty shock !!

Tibet is recognized by your government and by UN as part of China. Where is your authority coming that China can't do what it sees fit in it's own country ?

 

[Pat494]

Totally different set of factors. Tibet depends, apart from a miniscule tourist element, almost totally upon subsistence agriculture. It has no mineral wealth, a very small labour force, no industrial infrastructure, impossibly large natural barriers to physical infrastructure development of any kind and has no strategic geographical importance other than militarily as in occupying it means nobody else can, without a fight anyway.

There would be no benefit for the Chinese in adopting anything other than their current mode of use of and conduct in Africa in developing it for their own purposes as a provider of cheap labour, minerals, products and eventually, services.

As an aside, China's biggest headache militarily is defending the coastal plain east of the mountainous regions in the west: slap bang where the US has decided to start ramping up it's 'support' for the region. Who'd have thought.

The geographical factors may be different but the mindset of the Chinese leadership is the same - totally self serving and unprincipled. They could have squashed the nasty leadership in North Korea for instance years ago. But no it is in their interests to have an attack dog .
Don't make the mistake to think that they care except to further their own gains.

 

[Pat494]

Tibet is recognized by your government and by UN as part of China. Where is your authority coming that China can't do what it sees fit in it's own country ?

Doesn't human rights have a say even inside a country ?

As Mao said power comes out of the barrel of a gun. Noone knows how many his Red Guards murdered ? Was it 50 million or 100 million ?
I was shocked to see that currently many young Russians think that Stalin, another mass murderer was a great man.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Doesn't human rights have a say even inside a country ?

Well, people say this or say that. Who knows what the truth is. Your truth is as good as anyone else's. If you want to make your case, you can always come up with proof. Here's a map of China according to the CIA. As you can see, as a major respected authority on the 'TRUTH', they show Tibet is part of China. Also, of course, Taiwan. They don't even want to mention Taiwan on the map, even though Taiwan was supposed to be an ally.

Dealing with the truth is quite easy. You just need to bring in the well recognised authorities.

For instance if you want to make a case against Chinese aggression in the South China sea, you might have a better case because you can point to the CIA map and say: look that sea is clearly not part of China since CIA, by extension USA, don't recognize that as part of China, therefore they have no right to throw their weight around in that area by way of sailing their silly junks.

 

[Predicabo]

The geographical factors may be different but the mindset of the Chinese leadership is the same - totally self serving and unprincipled.

Yeah, I'd vote for them.

They could have squashed the nasty leadership in North Korea for instance years ago. But no it is in their interests to have an attack dog .

It doesn't hurt China to been seen at arms length generally supporting N. Korea in much the same way that Gaddafi served the same purpose for the ME. An individual or regional nutcase is always useful for adding a little edge and volatility when the occasion demands it and sanctions or retaliation even if enacted are always upon the proxy doing the dirty work, not the party doing the controlling. Regional joke: Why do you think N. Korean despots are so plump? So you can't see the strings. (Loses something in translation unfortunately).

Don't make the mistake to think that they care except to further their own gains.

Well of course, but what's wrong with that?

 

[Pat494]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat494
Don't make the mistake to think that they care except to further their own gains.

Well of course, but what's wrong with that?

That my friend is the root of evil that has caused countless wars and became an art form called imperialism.
It is usually better to let the other guy have a bit rather than screwing him to the wall for the last drop of blood.

Plan long term and make sure the others are happy too imho