Rogue Trader

Although he had a losing position - wasnt it made worse by factors outside his control ?

I recall reading that an earthquake in Japan knocked confidence, and the Nikkei fell further.

He may have lost his perspective, and a valid trading strategy was thrown into dissaray by this catastrophic outside event.
 
His strategy was to write options to cover losses.
Earthquakes happen :cheesy:
 
If it was me i'd have bricked it as soon as i made the first major loss and gone back to london tail between my legs. Personally I think he had huge knackers concealing the losses and running those positions
 
Last edited:
all major market moves are caused by some unforseen issue - and there is always another one round the corner - and thats why it takes at least 3 years successful trading to be on the first rung of the ladder - the better you do - the bigger you might stand to get taken out if you have not truly learned

and you can see gamblers like Nick Leeson every night in casinos - always trying to win back their losses - only he had a chance to sweep it under the table and earn fat bonuses along the way - if only he had learned to trade and not how to monkey with the books
 
I remember socrate's writing an excelent post on Nick and his adventures, anyone interested i would strongly recomend reading it.
 
ahhhhh......LTCM - thats brings back memories. good post oatman. well worth reading for any trader.
 
I was in singapore at the time it happened and I knew a number of his team .

to me , NL was flawed from the start , he was broker , who harboured secret ambitions of being a player .
So when the client books lost 20k on that day due to his poor execution , he saw it not just as a mistake but as his chance of trading his way out .

Of course , having then hidden the loss in the five 8s account , his fate was sealed , he was a one way trader - long only , he couldn't go short , since to do that he would have to close the five 8s and that would have been booked as a loss and his bosses in London would have seen it and probably sacked him.

so without the option of going short as well , he was doomed from the start . hard enough making money with both options of long and short , never mind this nonsense.
kobe and all that were excuses , if he had been using stops and could go short too , as a normal trader would , NL would have stood a better chance , but of course that was not the case.

He was a fool to think he could get away with it , he should have come clean and took the consequences .
 
I don''t have any specific inside knowledge, but I suspect the film was a fair portrayal of what happened although not entirely accurate. At the end of the day, the fault has to lie squarely with the absence of controls in the Singapore operation. I remember that, in the immediate aftermath, controlling trader risk suddenly became essential functionality for our system, but even so, systems today still do not possess basic checks - I can speak from experience at my former employer where on a number of occasions traders booked FX deals for several orders of magnitude greater than the GDP of the US. What struck me especially was the complacency of the Barings directors - one even remarked on NL's £10m profit in a single week, basically equivalent to the performance of the rest of the entire bank! The warning bells were sounding loudly...

Watching the film, I couldn't help but feel a genuine trader (I agree - I don't think NL had much trading experience, even though he managed to book that first large trade for the wealthy French geezer at a good price) would have played to his strength. Realizing that he had a huge losing long position, he could have started closing it, causing the market to drop and then following through by building up a short position. The market would have become hugely oversold, and he could then have closed his short at a good profit and reversed again into a long position to ride the bounce back up to even further profits. If all of this had been done in one, big, traumatically volatile day, he might even have been able to escape at break-even - and without having to worry about margin calls intraday. Basically, I don't think he recognized his advantage of being able to sell mercilessly and control the market in that way, rather than try and fight the market into supporting his losing long position.

Alex
 
AlexAndrews

yep, he did not have a clue about trading and just pissed away the money - day in - day out

its the companies fault for letting him do it - and its his fault for not taking advantage of the position he was in to make a fortune - he could be sitting on 100s or millions now of his own if he had just taken it slowly and tried to learn to trade - trading is not easy - maybe he could never have become a trader as he just did not have what it takes - but he was in a great spot to find and support and make money off people who did know how to trade
 
But that's really the point - Barings were not authorised to trade on their own account, he was simply a broker who, through the lack of adequate controls, was able to trade himself into trouble.

Alex
 
for all those that like the film , go and get the book , it's on bargain basements and it's even more revealing than the book.
 
anna friel ? she is the actress the book is written by NL and that would be about his real wife
 
AlexAndrews

yes, he was just a broker - and brokers are basiclaly like the people behind the check out at the sainsbuys - just because they take you money for the stuff does not mean they have the slightest idea about what the stuff is or does

but when you say - not allowed to trade for themselves - you mean Barings did not have permisson to trade on their own behalf from the regulatory authourity? you could be right - but seems unlikly they did not it - but if so, - what a bunch of goons from top to bottom!
 
There are brokers and brokers. When I was broking I had to work bloody hard to convince the client to trade with us. Had someone on my back all the time looking at the commission figures. If you didn't know your stuff you were stuffed. The clients wouldn't talk to you :cheesy:


by the way, I'm not defending Leeson, I still think he was a w4nker. I'm defending good brokers ;)
 
Last edited:
Barings were agency people , that's why what NL did was illegal .

one exception being arbitrage , they did that between SG and Tokyo on the nikkei225 future.
 
wisestguy said:
anna friel ? she is the actress the book is written by NL and that would be about his real wife

I know... but she is lovely. Although I wasn't too sure about the "blonde" hair.
 
wisestguy

arb is trading on your own behalf and you get exposed to market risk until both sides of the trade are in place

but are you saying that they only had permisson from the regualatory authourities to act as brokers and do arbing?

i know thats what barings thought was happening - but not so sure that about the regulatory side
 
Top