Richard Hill Forex Net Trap

wilczek said:
This forum is turning into a classic Why Most Traders Fail thread! This is a set & forget system, moving stop to breakeven, taking 20 pips instead of 50, etc. All means that whatever system you devise or choose to follow - YOU LOSE LONG TERM. This is one of the main reason traders fail, even if they have a profitable system that they know and believe in, they cannot follow it - END OF, LONG TERM LOSER. You are all doomed to failure unless you find a system and stick to the rules, if you cannot or do not stick to the rules of the system one of two things is wrong, you have no faith in the system or you have no faith in yourself - FAILURE, LONG TERM LOSER.

Just trying to help.

W

ps - Point made
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Think I have realised this now, especially today, missing the +50. I will set and forget from now on.
 
My approach has been to use vanilla NT all month...my results are -32. I read some of those very marginal days differently to RH. I have attempted not to tweak this at all, but I confess that I went in a little early on a few occassions if I felt that there was a very high probability that the vanilla NT entry would trigger, then why not go in a little early (like today!). This saved me a few pips. I have been live with MNT since the 9th of June, but I go for a 15 point target. This gave 30 points so I was -2 for the month. If I had been live with MNT all month, it would have given 76 points. My view is that I will continue on this basis. I agree with other posts that this is a set and forget system, which fits in with my lifestyle. I will not look at other factors. My advice to those who want to trade more actively is that they should attend some courses / webinars. I attended the Trade With Precision courses which are excellent, and really teach you how to trades...how to interpret the charts, the use of indcators, Fibonacci, S&R, multiple timeframes etc. It all takes too much time for me, so I am a self-confessed nutter now.
 
Hogs said:
Its not quite 75 pips though is it? The last 25 pips are not worth as much as you took profit early with INT.
Its closer to 37.5 when you average it out.
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No its +75 pips. I dual run my orders TNT @ 4%MM. It only averages out @ 37.5 pips if you wimp out and stick to 2%MM splitting your NT stake accross two. I double up my NT stake. Of course NT today would have been +100 pips for 4%MM theoretically........but NT has two many losses alone as last month showed.........you could double your losses!

M
 
mark120169 said:
No its +75 pips. I dual run my orders TNT @ 4%MM. It only averages out @ 37.5 pips if you wimp out and stick to 2%MM splitting your NT stake accross two. I double up my NT stake. Of course NT today would have been +100 pips for 4%MM theoretically........but NT has two many losses alone as last month showed.........you could double your losses!

M
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At the end of the day, you are effectively risking 4% on one trade (whether it be mnt or int as they all have the same trade at heart), and scaling out half your position at +25, for a net result of +37.5.
 
Mr Index said:
At the end of the day, you are effectively risking 4% on one trade (whether it be mnt or int as they all have the same trade at heart), and scaling out half your position at +25, for a net result of +37.5.
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Ok clever clogs. So what about the many days using TNT that NT goes into a loss and the varaint banks giving an overall positive?

I.e last month NT results where -68.5 by RH, But unsing the same rules 4% MM as TNT with NT+INT would have been +154 as INT banked +222.5 pips?

The whole point of TNT trades is that the variant does not always map NT but often banks when NT goes into a loss.

M

p.s. To make this easier for you to debunk.....NT = -137 pips 4%MM vs TNT (NT+INT) +154 pips. I know which ones ratio looks better to me! Or to split hairs NT -68.5 2% MM vs TNT (NT+INT) +77 pips 2% MM. Still trying to fit the formula into a box?

M
 
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mark120169 said:
Ok clever clogs. So what about the many days using TNT that NT goes into a loss and the varaint banks giving an overall positive?

I.e last month NT results where -68.5 by RH, But unsing the same rules 4% MM as TNT with NT+INT would have been +154 as INT banked +222.5 pips?

The whole point of TNT trades is that the variant does not always map NT but often banks when NT goes into a loss.

M
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Well not so clever clogs, I think you need to invest in some trading books. You are just breaking this up as though there is some totally new system here. Think it through, you are treating it as 2 separate trades with tiny differences, but what you are really doing is having one trade with 4% risk and scaling out half your position at +25 and not moving your stop on the other half at that point. Same result in combination. So really one trade with high risk, with a total result of +37.5 today. Hogs is correct.
 
Mr Index said:
Well not so clever clogs, I think you need to invest in some trading books. You are just breaking this up as though there is some totally new system here. Think it through, you are treating it as 2 separate trades with tiny differences, but what you are really doing is having one trade with 4% risk and scaling out half your position at +25 and not moving your stop on the other half at that point. Same result in combination. So really one trade with high risk, with a total result of +37.5 today. Hogs is correct.
Click to expand...

NT & INT have different entry points, by 4 pips today. So this does not quite work out. But I understand what you mean.

It's funny though because last week when TNT trades took a double hit IG took £60 from my account not less, and today when I checked they credited £75 not £37.5. What gives?

M
 
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mark120169 said:
NT & INT have different entry points, by 4 pips today. So this does not quite work out. But I understand what you mean.

It's funny though because last week when TNT trades took a double hit IG took £60 from my account not less, and today when I checked they credited £75 not £37.5. What gives?

M
Click to expand...

Mark, are you risking £1 a point or £2 a point? For the losses to be £120, that's 2 sets of £60 for the 30 pip stop. For your gain to be £75, that's 1 trade at £50 and 1 at £25, at £1 a point. Have you changed your bet size?

If you were betting at £2 a point, you should have banked £150 today, ie 75 pips at £2 a point.
I agree that your weighted risk is 30 pips at £4 (ie £120 risk) and your weighted return is 37.5 pips at £4 (ie £150 return)
Dax
 
mark120169 said:
NT & INT have different entry points, by 4 pips today. So this does not quite work out. But I understand what you mean.

It's funny though because last week when TNT trades took a double hit IG took £60 from my account not less, and today when I checked they credited £75 not £37.5. What gives?

M
Click to expand...

Mark, I think what Mr Index is saying is correct, if you took £75 today, then you are trading £1 a pip on 2 systems with subtle diiference on entry (he does say "tiny differences" on entry , to be fair). This is the same as £2 on one trade as he says, but scaling out for +37.5 pips in total. But you have to average your loss down as well as in pip terms, so a loss of £60 on one day is the same as a -30pips at £2 a pip if treating it as one system and scaling out. He is correct, as far as i see it.
 
DaxM said:
Mark, are you risking £1 a point or £2 a point? For the losses to be £120, that's 2 sets of £60 for the 30 pip stop. For your gain to be £75, that's 1 trade at £50 and 1 at £25, at £1 a point. Have you changed your bet size?

If you were betting at £2 a point, you should have banked £150 today, ie 75 pips at £2 a point.
I agree that your weighted risk is 30 pips at £4 (ie £120 risk) and your weighted return is 37.5 pips at £4 (ie £150 return)
Dax
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Typo........£1 pip until 10/7/10 then i up it. £120 was a typo, editied post to £60. Anyway just on a wind up today. People are free to use whatever they want IMO it's just others seem to get upset if it works better than the original, in the short term at least.

My thinking is let them fail...............then gloat. A lot. But if anyone does not want to hear about NTer's doing tweaks, trialing stops, TNT's etc then the Systems for traders thread is for you.......it reads like a RH update email, i.e. We lost again this week but remember this is why we use 2%MM.

Personally I like the info, especially those that have the balls to admit losing days and by how much. But then I don't let those that post they are unsure, pulling out early etc effect me. I let the system run and add a trailing stop if needed.


M
 
Wagtail said:
Mark, I think what Mr Index is saying is correct, if you took £75 today, then you are trading £1 a pip on 2 systems with subtle diiference on entry (he does say "tiny differences" on entry , to be fair). This is the same as £2 on one trade as he says, but scaling out for +37.5 pips in total. But you have to average your loss down as well as in pip terms, so a loss of £60 on one day is the same as a -30pips at £2 a pip if treating it as one system and scaling out. He is correct, as far as i see it.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand fully. Was on a wind up. But I find it funny that nothing is said by the risky doomsters of the TNT results when they have just made good on the worse month NT has ever had. And they can only improve good NT months.

I would not have the balls to trade NT alone @ 4% MM. It cant cope with volitile markets at all from what i've seen.

M
 
mark120169 said:
Typo........£1 pip until 10/7/10 then i up it. £120 was a typo, editied post to £60. Anyway just on a wind up today. People are free to use whatever they want IMO it's just others seem to get upset if it works better than the original, in the short term at least.

My thinking is let them fail...............then gloat. A lot. But if anyone does not want to hear about NTer's doing tweaks, trialing stops, TNT's etc then the Systems for traders thread is for you.......it reads like a RH update email, i.e. We lost again this week but remember this is why we use 2%MM.

Personally I like the info, especially those that have the balls to admit losing days and by how much. But then I don't let those that post they are unsure, pulling out early etc effect me. I let the system run and add a trailing stop if needed.


M
Click to expand...

I'm with you. I think the addition of MNT is a good thing. Even if it doesn't pay off in the long run (my testing, which is positive, only goes back to April), psychologically, it's easier to deal with. It's a nice felling when MNT banks in 20 - 30 mins and there's less temptation to mess with NT. I felt like closing NT for +30 today, but didn't as I was already up 15. I will looking into INT but not yet convinced by this (though the numbers you quote do look compelling)
Dax
 
mark120169 said:
Typo........£1 pip until 10/7/10 then i up it. £120 was a typo, editied post to £60. Anyway just on a wind up today. People are free to use whatever they want IMO it's just others seem to get upset if it works better than the original, in the short term at least.

My thinking is let them fail...............then gloat. A lot. But if anyone does not want to hear about NTer's doing tweaks, trialing stops, TNT's etc then the Systems for traders thread is for you.......it reads like a RH update email, i.e. We lost again this week but remember this is why we use 2%MM.

Personally I like the info, especially those that have the balls to admit losing days and by how much. But then I don't let those that post they are unsure, pulling out early etc effect me. I let the system run and add a trailing stop if needed.


M
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I'm glad that you finally see that you are risking 4% on one trade and scaling out.
Madness.
 
Hogs said:
I'm glad that you finally see that you are risking 4% on one trade and scaling out.
Madness.
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes and trailing stops @ +30 are unethical because they distort the figures in favour of those that use them vs those that trade the system exact. :sleep:

Sorry I forget to follow the established rules. This happened to me in 2007 when I sold my 2 bed semi in August 07 @ £194k after buying for £55k in 1996, then went into rented for 18 months and bought a 5 bed in the same town for £230k.

Every one seemed to get upset that I didn't follow rules and trade up to a bigger house and much bigger mortgae in 2006.

I just said its good money management to buy low. sell high, then buy low again.

They didn't understand.

M
 
wilczek said:
Agreed Mark.

This thread does have some (little) value - After today, I have decided, I will only observe the SystemsForTraders Net Trap room - http://www.systemsfortraders.com/real-time-trading-rooms/36036-trading-room-forex-net-trap.html - Quality not quantity for me - I wish you all well - See you in a year!

W
Click to expand...

I didn't know there was another NT (Vanilla) Forum. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll take a meander over and see how things are going there.

Good day Sir,
Mike
 
F***. I am watching this thinking how the hell it did not fill me in by a couple of pips...
 
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