Real Time Streaming Charts

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stevet said:
having done a dance on this thread with some learners
Click to expand...

Do you perchance mean me? I never said I was a "learner"(rather assumptive on your part), although I'm not arrogant or stupid enough to claim that there isn't plenty more for me to learn, even if I have been at this game for quite some years. Given the factual inaccuracies of some of your posts on this thread, it would appear that you too have plenty to learn.

Alex
 
alex

you for sure are not making money trading - and unless your real life attitude is different to how it seems on here -i would definetly be on a safe bet to say - you will never make a cent trading

trading is a real skill and normally people who learn that skill might get arrogant about the skill when they have been successful for a few years

and for others on here who genuniely want to learn - the underlying of the ftse futures is not the index - it is the stocks that make up the index, and a ftse contract gives you a hedged method to gain or lose based on the value of the underlying stocks that the ftse contract gives you exposure to, hence the interest input for the valuation of the different contract months periods due to the leverage afforded by the ftse contract

but the main thing is that if you are trading, you are trading the ftse futures - so that is the main thing your trading should be based on - this is key to trading - and until you get that fact - you will be really up against it to make money
 
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Another thread descending into madness I see...

There are a range of free charts and some excellent software for simulating trades on Index Futures (Dow, Nas, CAC, Dax, etc) and the major currency pairs available at www.tradingsimulation.com, which is a site run by another member of this site, Henry.

Click the above link, follow the "free charts" or "Tsim Lite" links and away you go. Tsim Lite used the Dukascopy feed (same one as on the www.livecharts.com page) and records real-time entries and exits, shows P/L levels (you have to download the software, but its free)

If you are serious about trading you won't want to stick with Spreadbetting for too long anyway. Practice trading index futures and then you won't be in for such a shock when you finally decide to kick you SB broker into touch and trade in the real world.

Hope this helps.

RR
 
Academic arguments should be restricted to the pub. There has just been a good example this morning why Stevet's point of view is correct. At about 0805 the FTSE 100 fell very quickly from 4553.8 to aboout 4544.5( in 2 minutes) If you had a trigger to go short if 4550 was breached you would have entered a Short trade! However, with my finger over the Sell button using D4F SBing, I noticed that the Cash price, the Sept price and the Dec price never budged from about 4556. I didn't go short. Sure enough, 5 minutes later the FTSE 100 has recovered and gone up to 4560.
What is the point of saying you want to trade "Fruit" futures, following the price of "Pears" and then trading "Apples"
Happy trading,
G McA
 
gmca686

praise be to whoever your god is!

and that is how you learn to trade - not by doing searches on google for definitions of rules, that arnt going to make sense to you anyway, or going on one day courses - but just keep watching the pricing in the markets - watch them for every tick , day in and day out - and slowly day by day - the markets will start to make sense ( perhaps frustratingly slowly - but the reward when it does - really makes up for the relentless work it takes to get there)

and slowly you will start to ditch the things that are holding you back and in themselves causing you to lose bucks, such as unreliable data or the wrong data or using SB companies - but keep the main thing that will make you bucks - an open mind (or at least keep it until you start making 4 figuers each day - and then close it just a bit - you'll deserve a break then!)
 
Back to my original question when i started this thread.

Can't remember who, it was so long ago, but somebody recommened ADVFN for live streaming charts of UK shares. Like the look of it, subscribed to the free thing, going to subscribe to the UK Silver Trader, its only £30/m. Easy to use, got what I'm looking for, don't really need much more just yet, just going to keep it nice and simple! So thanks to whoever mentioned it.
 
Hi Stevet (and others),

Can someone advise please - bare in mind I know very little about futures;


I use Spreadbetting (and unless someone has been giving me monet for the last 3 years, making money at it but that's another story....🙂. My average trade lasts between 1 and 3 months, and I find SB a decent vehicle - mainly becuase I have to fill in a tax return and don't want the bother.

I am ramping up my investment and hence am interested in minimising any transaction costs. Is it possible to explain (simply for me!) the adavantages of futures over SB. The commission on the "bet" is around 0.7%, plus any market spread (I'd have this if dealing directly) The other costs are the finance charge but as I'm fully hedged, the effect of this is neutral.

I can see that for short term trades where % profits would be lower, initial commission would wipe out any advantages of the tax free element. Am I wrong in thinking that the benefits of lower commisions diminish the longer your time horizon, on the supposition this means you're shooting for higher % returns per trade - in other words savings of >20% tax on any returns outweighs <1% commission.

How do the charges on futures compare?

All advice greatly appreciated.

UTB

PS - eek - just realised this isn't an appropriate thread for the question but it's here now so......
 
Amongst all the madness and bickering here, might I remind everybody here, especially those who like to point out that some points made are 'basic', which I agree with, indeed they are; that this particular forum is aptly named 'First Steps' definition being:

"Thinking you might want to try trading? Want to ask a question but worried about saying something silly on the main boards? This is the place where you can take the first few steps in safety."

.
 
the blades

i can take a stab at answering what i think you are asking - but not completly sure what you meant

but i can only answer in relation to someone who is commited to and wants to trade full time and trading would be their only source of income and because it is their only source of income, and they are risking their own money, they want a reasonable lifestyle for the hard work - and because they need to pay the bills each week, they need to be making a cash profit on a weekly basis - the landlord or whatever does not not let you off paying the rent just because you are holding shares that have gone up

a conscequence of someone trading for weekly income is that you trade more- and when you trade more - you learn about your trading capability, which you dont do when you just do a few trades now and then

simply because if you just take for example a trade a month for a year - i guess there is a chance all those trades will work out - because you are just starting out - you are betting a smaller amount on each trade - so the pullbacks dont worry that much - and when the shares bounce your way - you will feel that you are a real swinging dick trader for holding throught the downs- so in the second year you will start upping the bet - unfortuneatly , your luck is running out for gettting winners - and those pull backs start to hurt more when you bet more - so you start closing a few losers and taking the loss - and after a while - your trading hobby turns into a nightmare - and as someone pointed out from a news article about someone else - you then kill your wife!!!

and most businesses in the world make their money by buying and selling all the time - it only seems to be in the trading world that people think they are successful by just buying occasionally and if possible, never selling! and in fact the longer you can hold a loser - the better you are doing!!!

but if you do 10 trades a day - and hit 70 trades in a week - (leaving aside all the baloney about intraday trading and over trading) - you are going to have a big wake up call as to how crap or good a trader you are

but at least when you can do it - you will be able to make a wage each and every week - and real money you can spend

the point of all this - is that when you would be trading each day to make money each day and you have you bucks on the line each day - you are just not gonna be dealing with the shannagans of trading throught a spreadbet company

you are gonna accept you normal trading losses -but not losses from dealing through amateur platforms for spreadbetting - you are going to want transparent pricing and one second fills - which is what you get with direct acces trading

so forget the tax angle - and glow when you pay the tax - knowing the alternative is not making money

an example on futures - is a quarter point spread on the emini sp which is $12.50 on a $50 a point contract

and in reasonable liquidity - you can trade up to 100 contracts - 20 are a doddle and if you want to learn with one - thats just fine

and you should not pay more than $5 a r/t per contract and when you really get motoring doing enough contracts - you will end up just paying cents per r/t

if anyone feels any of this is wrong - and they are making a million a year plus from trading - i would be happy to debate the points with you - but if you 'think' its wrong - or you read a book that said......... or whatever - tell it to the person next to you - cause i dont give a ****!
 
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stevet said:
alex

you for sure are not making money trading - and unless your real life attitude is different to how it seems on here -i would definetly be on a safe bet to say - you will never make a cent trading

trading is a real skill and normally people who learn that skill might get arrogant about the skill when they have been successful for a few years

but it takes a special kind of prick like you to be arrogant when you are still looking to get free streaming charts and dont have a clue about markets or trading

and for others on here who genuniely want to learn - the underlying of the ftse futures is not the index - it is the stocks that make up the index, and a ftse contract gives you a hedged method to gain or lose based on the value of the underlying stocks that the ftse contract gives you exposure to, hence the interest input for the valuation of the different contract months periods due to the leverage afforded by the ftse contract

but the main thing is that if you are trading, you are trading the ftse futures - so that is the main thing your trading should be based on - this is key to trading - and until you get that fact - you will be really up against it to make money
Click to expand...

LOL stevet, has someone's ego been bruised? Not that it really matters, but yes, I have made money trading over the last 8-9 years, principally from equities on something of a part-time basis, but now I'd like to branch out to the indices - hence why I've never needed a streaming live chart of the FTSE. Making assumptions about people really can make you look even more silly than when you come out with nonsense like the "underlying of the ftse futures is not the index - it is the stocks that make up the index". Hello? "The index" and "the stocks that make up the index" are one and the same thing. I'll decline to highlight the other guff you have spouted in the above.

But, amazingly, I think I've managed to work out what it is you might have been trying to say! I think the point you have been trying to make is that trades of the FTSE future can be a good leading indicator for the FTSE itself. The reason being that big players, when they want to adjust their equity portfolio, first hedge the equity trades in the futures market by going long or short (as appropriate) a FTSE future and then executing the equity trades in the stockmarket. That way, if the action of executing the equity trades moves the prices of the shares (and hence the value of the index), the futures price should similarly move. They can then close the futures position for a gain which should compensate for the "loss" they made from the lower prices at which they sold the shares. Is this what you have been trying to say? If so, I would agree entirely and just wish you could have articulated it earlier on, saving a lot of time and effort all round.

All the best,

Alex
 
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AlexAndrews

what a surpise that you are a 'part time' trader -and been part-time for 8/9 years - and want to branch out!

but you stil dont get it - will you ever - and in you little example - its not hedging - its called front running - and the futures are not a leading indicator - they are what you trade - so how can the thing you trade be the leading indicator for itself - unless you were using one futures contract as a leading indicator for another futures contract

bruise my ego - who knows it all before they start and then dumps the mother load when the start trading off their ego and you never hear of them again - get real

the reason i carry on the debate is that at least you raise issues that others can learn from
 
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SteveT,

regarding the costs associated with trading futurews, it seems I will have to learn a little elsewhere about these as I can't quite make comparisons with what you've said. thanks for the attemmpt anyway.

As for the comment about my trading - I am not here for re-assurance from anyone about potential returns. I am fortunate enough to not require a weekly wage and can ride out any bad patches. I undertsand who certain forms aof trading would be limited in some circumstances.

I do not trade tiny ammounts of money - I'd typically have around 15 trades open at around £3,000 per deal. Small to some but significant enough to have learned about my own emotions in choppy markets.

From what I know today, the advantage of the tax free element outweighs the higher commision as I'd expect to make around 5% on a deal (on average), so the maths are easy.

But I do need to learn about any way that I might reduce the costs of trading.

All the best and UTB!
 
the blades

my comment are not normally directed at the person that might bring up a point - but are sort of my interpertation of the question and then the comments are for all those who read these threads and are trying to learn about trading - so i was neither asking about nor commenting on your own particular form of trading

why dont you give an example of an exact trade you do with its associtated costs - and i am sure others on here with a similar situation will let you know if you have a good or crap deal

i couldnt tell if you are doing stocks - indexes or ?
 
Well, stevet, whatever. For the sake of this thread, I am not going to continue arguing when you insist black is white. But thanks for letting me know the market jargon for the operation I described (BTW, technically speaking it is also a hedging operation, as the seller would be hedging his exposure to falls in the share prices as he sells his shares - he is trading the shares and taking a futures position to hedge it; he is not trying to trade the futures). But I'm certainly not going to enter into a "my method of trading is better than yours" slanging match that you seem to want. As I said, you don't need to fully know or understand what you are trading in order to trade it successfully.

All the best with your trading.

est84: Glad you found the ADVFN service of use.

Alex
 
Alex / Steve

Please desist these petty comments. This is not the place for it.

Steve - you will notice that I have edited and removed some of your posts. Please do not insult other members intelligence on the boards, or resort to name-calling.

I have closed this thread, as its going nowhere.
 
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