Re – 2 traders required to complete team of 4

[Lord Flasheart]

Hi LF

I understand why you are sceptical. I cant prove on a public internet forum that are no fees all I can do is say we are 2 private traders looking for 2 other private traders to form a team. no fees now or ever, no splits, if it does progress to a shared office then strictly equal split of costs between the team.

Re - your opinion on whether there is an edge. I cant really prove or disprove you on a public internet forum and nor do I want to. It's no great shakes anyway as you could give a solid edge to 100 traders and probably 90 would still fail, it's only one component. Edges are everywhere when you start to look, just a case of finding one that suits the trader and then being able to trade it.

The reason for finding two more traders is in the OP.
_________________________________________________________
The edge provides a large number of high probability set ups from the 5min t/f and above and can be traded across multiple instruments hence the need for more pairs of eyes. Traders will alert the others to pending trading opportunities on the instruments they are monitoring thus maximising the number of trading opportunities in the trading session for all of the team.
_________________________________________________________

Good luck to you.

That seems fair enough,I may have been too strong and what you say about the 90% is true. Why do you want to share the edge?

 

[pboyles]

Im sure PB will be along shortly.

If they had the edge why share it. How many prop type firms do you know who have the edge.They are after the fees

IF you hold you own funds in a broker of your choosing

AND you pay your share of office rental monthly with no contract going forward (like a hot desk)

AND there are no other fees

Then I can't see how you can get scammed, whether or not you'll make money is another matter, as the OP himself would admit I'm sure.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

I'll take the other side of this, Flashy.

I think there might be an edge, and the proposers are merely using the desk-fees as a means of paying for the set-up, and getting themselves a free desk.
And possibly get some volume rebates.
Essentially, utilising other traders to get free resources for themselves.
Nothing wrong in that.
However, if there is no edge, given the day-trading nature of this, it will become apparent quite quickly.
I cant see how if it is underhand, how it could survive more than 6 weeks.

Things to watch out for would be not to get tied into any extended contracts.
I am notionally optimistic about this.
As I am with all possible trades.

Has pboyles commented yet? :cheesy:

Hi Trendie

'I think there might be an edge, and the proposers are merely using the desk-fees as a means of paying for the set-up, and getting themselves a free desk.'

I can assure you that is not the case. Personally I couldn't be bothered with the aggro of making a profit out of leasing desks. There are better things to do with my time than weasel people out of lousy desk fees. Any future shared office would be conditional on everyone being profitable in their own right (and that may never happen - trading is hard), if it does happen then the price would be strictly divided by the number of traders, then cost of broadband/coffee etc split.

'possibly get some volume rebates.'

Each trader will trade for himself with his own account so it would be impossible to collect rebates on another traders account. The instruments we will be trading do not have a rebate structure any how

Essentially, utilising other traders to get free resources for themselves.
Nothing wrong in that.'

I have to disagree, I think there would be something wrong in doing that, personally I would never want to trade with other traders with them knowing I am earning money from them directly or indirectly. That would create the wrong atmosphere.

'However, if there is no edge, given the day-trading nature of this, it will become apparent quite quickly.
I cant see how if it is underhand, how it could survive more than 6 weeks'

It certainly would be come apparent quickly, whilst discipline and strong motivation are required to succeed without any real edge trading is simply flushing money down the toilet or akin to taking a punt.

'Things to watch out for would be not to get tied into any extended contracts.'

There wont be any contracts now or ever, just a gentleman's agreement. We work on a trust basis bit old fashioned I know but its a small group and if you cant trust each other I cant see any way of moving forward.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

No no, course he has the edge, he's probably taking the core principles from
his illustrious 'gift to newbies thread' and added in pin bars at round numbers
and hey presto edge completed!! :clap:

those were the days, I hope you enjoyed the entertainment back then. Sadly the edge doesn't involve round numbers although I still do really like round numbers as potential battlegrounds for buyers and sellers to fight it out.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

I wish you good luck,the opening post may have been a touch misleading and similar to many weve seen before.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Im sure PB will be along shortly.

If they had the edge why share it. How many prop type firms do you know who have the edge.They are after the fees

Hi LF. As explained in the OP and my above replies the edge is being shared as we need 2 more traders to alert the team to set ups that occur during the 8am- 12noon trading session thus maximizing opportunities to all. Also it would offer a solution to the isolation of remote trading/social environment/sharing of ideas/offer new opportunities.

I agree with you that prop firms do try and make money from traders out of the fees, some are more genuine than others. We will not be a prop firm, just individuals trading together in a team.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

The only mention of any cost is £400/500 a month once successful for sharing an office, no?
No mention of brokers/exchange etc. as trading from own account from a rented office.

yes that's correct and I only used the figure £400-£500 per month as that is probably the going rate for a shared office in central London per desk. Of course it depends on the spec/location but there is a lot of empty office space available in London so the market is competitive and a good deal can be struck. It depends what the team wants and decides if we get that far - which is not guaranteed.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

IF you hold you own funds in a broker of your choosing

AND you pay your share of office rental monthly with no contract going forward (like a hot desk)

AND there are no other fees

Then I can't see how you can get scammed, whether or not you'll make money is another matter, as the OP himself would admit I'm sure.

Yes each trader would choose their own broker/clearing route and trade their own account, no other fees now or ever. Not sure how the contract for a shared office would work if we progress to that stage. I think most serviced office would require 3 month minimum so we would probably be on the hook for 1 month deposit plus 3 months of rent, I would be keen to commit to 3 months maximium at the start in case things don't work out,

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

I wish you good luck,the opening post may have been a touch misleading and similar to many weve seen before.

no worries LF, given the amount of scams and unscrupulous vendors in this industry you are right to be wary, I know I certainly am, I vendor bash like the best of them. Sorry if anything was misleading, good trading to you sir.

 

[trendie]

Just out of curiosity, how many trades, and how many pips would today have bagged?
On, for example, GU, EU and Dax?

 

[DionysusToast]

I'll take the other side of this, Flashy.

I think there might be an edge, and the proposers are merely using the desk-fees as a means of paying for the set-up, and getting themselves a free desk.

As opposed to going to a hedge fund and getting them to fund the operation based on past performance?

This explanation makes little sense.

As I mentioned before, I know a guy that was given 100k from a fund & he'd never placed a trade.

Shame he put it into a new account at MF Global 5 days before it went t!ts up, really.

There's tons & tons of $$$$ out there. Sure - a fund will expect their pint of blood & they will pi$$ & moan when you have an off day but it sure beats giving your edge away for 500 quid a month.

 

[DionysusToast]

Hi LF

I understand why you are sceptical. I cant prove on a public internet forum that are no fees all I can do is say we are 2 private traders looking for 2 other private traders to form a team. no fees now or ever, no splits, if it does progress to a shared office then strictly equal split of costs between the team.

Re - your opinion on whether there is an edge. I cant really prove or disprove you on a public internet forum and nor do I want to. It's no great shakes anyway as you could give a solid edge to 100 traders and probably 90 would still fail, it's only one component. Edges are everywhere when you start to look, just a case of finding one that suits the trader and then being able to trade it.

The reason for finding two more traders is in the OP.
_________________________________________________________
The edge provides a large number of high probability set ups from the 5min t/f and above and can be traded across multiple instruments hence the need for more pairs of eyes. Traders will alert the others to pending trading opportunities on the instruments they are monitoring thus maximising the number of trading opportunities in the trading session for all of the team.

help get over the isolation of trading alone, provide economies of scale, share costs not risk and also it may open up further opportunities for all of us working as a team.
_________________________________________________________

Good luck to you.

Sounds like you need a scanner, not a partner...

Seriously - I'm not talking about a bot - just a scanner that gives you an approximate heads up.

It's not dissimilar to that outfit I know. They have 4 guys but only 1 places trades. They use scanners but they also have a lot of trades on the go....

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

As opposed to going to a hedge fund and getting them to fund the operation based on past performance?

This explanation makes little sense.

As I mentioned before, I know a guy that was given 100k from a fund & he'd never placed a trade.

Shame he put it into a new account at MF Global 5 days before it went t!ts up, really.

There's tons & tons of $$$$ out there. Sure - a fund will expect their pint of blood & they will pi$$ & moan when you have an off day but it sure beats giving your edge away for 500 quid a month.

Hi Toasty. I am not giving any edge away for £500 per month. An edge would be provided with signing of a non disclosure agreement but I dont know where the £500 pm comes in. That is just the estimated cost of a shared office should we get to that stage, it's not an amount that that is paid to me or any other member of the group. Good trading to you.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Just out of curiosity, how many trades, and how many pips would today have bagged?
On, for example, GU, EU and Dax?

Hi Trendie, sorry I am not going to go into details of performance on a public internet forum as there is absolutely no upside in doing so. I could come back with a number but it would be meaningless too everyone. It wouldn't help you, me or anyone else and above all it would be a waste of time. sorry

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Sounds like you need a scanner, not a partner...

Seriously - I'm not talking about a bot - just a scanner that gives you an approximate heads up.

It's not dissimilar to that outfit I know. They have 4 guys but only 1 places trades. They use scanners but they also have a lot of trades on the go....

thanks for the suggestion but that would not work in this case for a number of reasons that I will not bore you with.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Good work ChocolateDigestive,

As I keep harping on to anyone that will listen, a group of eyes are far better than a single pair and can promote calm and finger pressing or a step back and review when necessary. It also distributes time amongst many and helps ensure the key trades are not missed, naturally when they are found, several will verify this and the team can rest assure that they will lose and review or win and drink.

Good luck and never give up,

Lee Shepherd

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Good work ChocolateDigestive,

As I keep harping on to anyone that will listen, a group of eyes are far better than a single pair and can promote calm and finger pressing or a step back and review when necessary. It also distributes time amongst many and helps ensure the key trades are not missed, naturally when they are found, several will verify this and the team can rest assure that they will lose and review or win and drink.

Good luck and never give up,

Lee Shepherd

Hi Lee. Thanks for the positive post. There is definitely an advantage to be had having others alert you to a potential trading opportunity on other instruments /timeframes. You are correct that having a different set of eyes verifying trades can help to filter out the various biases that we all have inbuilt in us. thanks

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Hi Lee. Thanks for the positive post. There is definitely an advantage to be had having others alert you to a potential trading opportunity on other instruments /timeframes. You are correct that having a different set of eyes verifying trades can help to filter out the various biases that we all have inbuilt in us. thanks

I've sent you a PM

 

[trendie]

Hi Trendie, sorry I am not going to go into details of performance on a public internet forum as there is absolutely no upside in doing so. I could come back with a number but it would be meaningless too everyone. It wouldn't help you, me or anyone else and above all it would be a waste of time. sorry

no probs.
(it was worth a try. )

Is there any reason you're writing in purple?
I'm getting disturbing flashbacks.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

no probs.
(it was worth a try. )

Is there any reason you're writing in purple?
I'm getting disturbing flashbacks.

alright since it's you i will change to Majenta I just started writing my responses in a different colour and purple seemed a good option. It is a sign of respect to our fallen comrade socrates