Re – 2 traders required to complete team of 4

[The Leopard]

is it a good idea though Leopard? as it looks like me and you are the only real traders fighting against a vendor and a trolling 14 year old student. sounds like a hiding to nothing.

Well, I think it might be interesting. To me the main question is not whether it is or not, but whether it matters and what lessons can be drawn.

But I genuinely do think that there are good arguments to be made on various sides (I don't actually think there are just two) so it could be a reasonable debate.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Well, I think it might be interesting. To me the main question is not whether it is or not, but whether it matters and what lessons can be drawn.

But I genuinely do think that there are good arguments to be made on various sides (I don't actually think there are just two) so it could be a reasonable debate.

ok lets see what lulz the dumb flow and student can provide us with.

 

[wackypete2]

I offered an explanation as to why retail traders get slipped, something which most people here would have never ever have known. regulatory matters are a subject in themselves and I certainly know very little about them.

I agree with your your explanation and it's what I was getting at. The tight spreads on bucketshops are usually only available a a very minimum volume. If you trade more than that you get slipped to the next price down. The tighter the spreads that are offered the worse this becomes.

Peter

 

[wackypete2]

Why all the fascination with a zero sum game??
Who really gives a rat's azz if it is or it isn't??
Let's see a show of hands (keyboards?) who's trading methods would be thrown upside down either way??

Peter

 

[The Leopard]

Why all the fascination with a zero sum game??
Who really gives a rat's azz if it is or it isn't??
Let's see a show of hands (keyboards?) who's trading methods would be thrown upside down either way??

Peter

Well, that's part of the point of the thread, something I hope might start to come out when all the d1ck swinging is finished with.

The thing is, I think it's possible to make the case (it does or does not matter) for both.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

I agree with your your explanation and it's what I was getting at. The tight spreads on bucketshops are usually only available a a very minimum volume. If you trade more than that you get slipped to the next price down. The tighter the spreads that are offered the worse this becomes.

Peter

That's a completely different issue, Pete. Choccy stated that a broker just adds their margin to the institutional quote and he's been on about impact the FX retail trader has on the actual market. If that was the case then the underlying quotes would have to have slipped too which is where the whole regulatory issue with FX quoting that I was alluding to comes into play... unless of course you believe that bookies can in/directly move the market with individual client orders.

The bookie quotes change/slip you cos you're being ripped off and they want to match as many orders as possible in-house to manage their own net exposure. It's got absolutely f*ck all to do with the underlying market where there's strict legislation on your bid/offer and spread and the whole ECN thing adds another degree of complexity to attempting to game people.

Insofar as spread betting firms are concerned then yes, liquidity is an issue (or rather is it how they deal with their counter-pary risk?) but in wholesale FX? Not a chance. They two things are worlds apart. The fact that most FX activity doesn't take place in the spot market is another issue that's been completely overlooked too.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

That's a completely different issue, Pete. Choccy stated that a broker just adds their margin to the institutional quote and he's been on about impact the FX retail trader has on the actual market. If that was the case then the underlying quotes would have to have slipped too which is where the whole regulatory issue with FX quoting that I was alluding to comes into play... unless of course you believe that bookies can in/directly move the market with individual client orders.

The bookie quotes change/slip you cos you're being ripped off and they want to match as many orders as possible in-house to manage their own net exposure. It's got absolutely f*ck all to do with the underlying market where there's strict legislation on your bid/offer and spread and the whole ECN thing adds another degree of complexity to attempting to game people.

Insofar as spread betting firms are concerned then yes, liquidity is an issue (or rather is it how they deal with their counter-pary risk?) but in wholesale FX? Not a chance. They two things are worlds apart. The fact that most FX activity doesn't take place in the spot market is another issue that's been completely overlooked too.

Hey troller

If you have a specific issue with something I said I think you should spell it out precisely so I can laugh at you.

When I talk about 'wholesale feed' I am talking about the feed that the ECN provides dealer clients of which bucketshops might be included. Within the ECN's this is what they call a 'wholesale' feed, that's what it is known as in the industry. Why dont you call an ECN and ask them if they offer a wholesale feed, muppet.

If you trade via a dealer broker you can have money taken off you either by them slipping you internally or getting slipped through the 'wholesale' feed. You didn't know about these wholesale feeds until I told you about them earlier in the thread and you are assuming they are something they are not. They are a separate exchange from the interbank market, the spreads are tighter and sometimes go inverted because the providers want the dumb flow. This feed goes directly to the dealer clients that is what is was created for. What you have failed to grasp because you dont have any experience of the matter is that this wholesale feed is not the underlying market, it is the market for the dumb flow. There is no size there for obvious reasons.

unless of course you believe that bookies can in/directly move the market with individual client orders.

you idiot. proof you dont trade, cant trade and best give up now.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

I didn't know about wholesale feeds? Are you kidding? And anyway what are you blathering about? Not once have I questioned the existence of institutional price feeds inc ECN. What I said was anyone trading through a bookie isn't getting their orders slipped by the adverse liquidity in underlying market or by movements in a wholesale quoting + margin spread. It's 99% of the time i.e. outside of thin liquidity e.g data releases etc, all margin and counter-party risk management.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

I didn't know about wholesale feeds? Are you kidding? And anyway what are you blathering about? Not once have I questioned the existence of institutional price feeds inc ECN. What I said was anyone trading through a bookie isn't getting their orders slipped by the adverse liquidity in underlying market or by movements in a wholesale quoting + margin spread. It's 99% of the time i.e. outside of thin liquidity e.g data releases etc, all margin and counter-party risk management.

No Scose you didn't know about wholesale feeds. that was clear for everyone to see.

here is what you said

Choccy stated that a broker just adds their margin to the institutional quote and he's been on about impact the FX retail trader has on the actual market. If that was the case then the underlying quotes would have to have slipped too which is where the whole regulatory issue with FX quoting that I was alluding to comes into play...

this shows your clear lack of understanding of what a wholesale feed is. You are trying to make out that I said the FX retail trader slips the real market because you dont understand and you look like a fool. The retail tarder gets slipped in the market designed for the dumb flow which is not the actual market. sounds like you also dont understand about the structure of dealer clients v. bucketshops. The feed is designed for the dumb flow, one step above you someone who spends their life trolling a trading forum but doesnt trade. lol.

now run along to google where you will hunt for another ridiculous post. PS - you wont find anything about wholesale feeds on google as this is insider knowledge. muppet.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

PS - you wont find anything about wholesale feeds on google as this is insider knowledge. muppet.

Teh lulz

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Teh lulz

now back to your schoolwork.

G Trolling T Y

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Will do


GTTYT

 

[traderfunding]

ChocolateDigestive, cool name, I PM'ed you a few minutes ago. Let me know when you have a few minutes.

 

[forker]

No Scose you didn't know about wholesale feeds. that was clear for everyone to see.

here is what you said



this shows your clear lack of understanding of what a wholesale feed is. You are trying to make out that I said the FX retail trader slips the real market because you dont understand and you look like a fool. The retail tarder gets slipped in the market designed for the dumb flow which is not the actual market. sounds like you also dont understand about the structure of dealer clients v. bucketshops. The feed is designed for the dumb flow, one step above you someone who spends their life trolling a trading forum but doesnt trade. lol.

now run along to google where you will hunt for another ridiculous post. PS - you wont find anything about wholesale feeds on google as this is insider knowledge. muppet.

Please stop sugar coating wholesale as if it's something only traders can know about and insider knowledge. Anyone can find an overview using a 10 second Google search with something more meaty within 10 minutes. Heck I even have a book on my shelf that can give me all the information I could ever need. So again, please stop pretending you're special

 

[kimo'sabby]

Why all the fascination with a zero sum game??
Who really gives a rat's azz if it is or it isn't??
Let's see a show of hands (keyboards?) who's trading methods would be thrown upside down either way??

Peter

Why is it an important question? Here are some more questions...

Q) What moves the market?

Q) Why is insider trading illegal?

Q) Is the market random?

Q) What is 'front-running'?