Quick Question for Experienced Traders

GammaJammer said:
Have you ever traded gbp crosses as well (gbp/jpy for example) or are you strictly a cable trader?

And I thought my Qs were perfectly sensible. All I was trying to do was establish whether this 4% per day return you think is perfectly achievable was based on leveraged or unleveraged trading. I still don't have an answer to that Q btw....
Click to expand...
Gamma; The thing is, its a bit of a rhetorical question - because 4% in FOREX UN-LEVERAGED every day.... Come on? Have you seen GBP/USD in terms of percentage movement? It moves like 0.2% a day at the best of times :LOL:
 
Gamma,.....Do you feel better, now that everything in your mind is settled.
Would be a bummer to have worked for 14 yrs and be wrong!
 
Its always worth getting posts into context. 9 Months ago in February 2009 Hilarymannah wrote:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/32991-potential-setups-426.html#post662794

Hi guys,.and girls,.
I've bin paper trading a strategy for five months now,.....and it's averaging me 200 pips per day,. the question I'd like to ask is,......how much is this system worth on the open market ?

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/32991-potential-setups-426.html#post662794
 
zupcon ,....LOL,.you really do not realize how foolish folk are in todays culture.
Okay,..just for fun,.lets just go with your premise.
I wanted to know how much my knowledge was worth, no-one gave me an answer.
What were your presuppositions?
What are they now,..no one asked me!
Is it hard to believe, for you and everyone else, my claims,..and why?
How do you learn, and from whom?
Have you been ripped off,..and did you learn from it?
I've a library stacked with useless/useful information,..have you?
And finally,.this context,...explain it to everyone,..just so's we can all think the same or not ! : )
 
Because like any village, anywhere in the world, the locals always treat travellers with suspicion, especially travellers with bold claims about the rest of the world.

The traveller infrequently think to ask how well travelled the villagers are, after all some villagers may have been there all their lives but others may once have been travellers too.

Incidentally, Aesop wrote a fable about a boastful traveller. He wrote it primarily because the moral trascends time and reflects human behaviour.

Right now, you're the new traveller and you're boastful claims are being treated with suspicion.

Just normal human behaviour if you ask me.
 
Wow you make 4% per day. The exact figure the opening poster was looking for. What a coincidence...

Hilary you said you make 200 pips per day on average trading only cable. Considering it often moves say 160 pips in a day, you would either have to pick pretty close to the bottom and top, or be batting up and down all day long. Neither is impossible, but both are a bit of a stretch on an average day. Well done if you can pull that off. But if I was making 200 pips per day on average, I wouldn't give a crap about what its price was worth on the market, because it could make me a multi-millionaire already. The fact you asked, makes you look like you're sellign false dreams. Also, weren't you asked for proof back on the potential setups thread, and you disappeared.
 
Robster,.....no one was asking you,.but thanks for your opinion.
Opinions are a good gauge of folks knowledge and wisdom, and they aren't set in stone,.unless by choice!
 
As you've asked questions, I'll answer them

a)Yes I realise people are foolish, and Ive successfully expoited that for many years

b) I suspect you asked the question as to how much your system was worth, because you you wanted to know what a bunch of people on this forum thought, no more no less

c)I dont find it hard to believe your claims at all.

d) All learning is based on heirarchical principles, for example it would be difficult to obtain a PhD in quantum physiscs without learning the alphabet, or how to count to 10 at the age of 4. Therefore information and skills have been passed to me by teachers, lecturers, my PhD supervisor, a variety of business mentors, my driving instructor, my windsurfing instructor, my peers, siblings, parents etc etc. Having said that the only things that Ive learned that are of real value, in a monetary sense at least, have been self taught.

e) Yes Ive been ripped off, and for some eye watering sums of money :LOL:

f) I learned that most solicitors are amongst the most untrustworthy people on the planet, I learned that revenge is indeed sweet, time and time again getting ripped off taught me that my initial instincts are generally quite good. Getting ripped of is part of the price of doing business.

g) I dont own a specific building dedicated only to storing books, but I do have small libraries within some of the buildings that I own, and I personally own thousands of books, I have no idea how many.

I'm not sure how this helps you, but the facts remain, and my post places things in context.
 
Hilarymannah said:
Robster,.....no one was asking you,.but thanks for your opinion.
Opinions are a good gauge of folks knowledge and wisdom, and they aren't set in stone,.unless by choice!
Click to expand...

I hear wasp is looking for a risk manager:) You two should get together and take the world to the cleaners.
 
Thanks zupcon,..I didn't learn anything new in your reply,.but i think others might.
Counter violent,..I work alone,...: )
 
kugan said:
Just an idea, not sure if it's an old one, or a naive one but I'd like to hear some thoughts on it. I'm new to trading, and am still learning the ropes but I was thinking about this possibility, perhaps as a goal to work towards in terms of consistency and skill.

Are there any traders here who can consistently grow their accounts by 4% in a day? This doesn't seem like too huge a figure... am I wrong? If you can do this all 5 days of the week, and get a 20% profit at the end of it, regularly, great.

If you start with £1000, and can make 4%, £40 a day, at the end of the week the account has grown 20% to £1200. If, using the same risk/profit ratios you used to get that £40 a day were kept in place and applied to the larger, £1200 account, and you continued to compound profits whilst keeping in place the profit/risk ratios you use, am I right in thinking that it would take less than a year to reach £1million? I'm sure if you're experienced traders you'd all be able to calculate the figures yourselves, but for my excitement I like to watch the numbers grow (week by week) and so will post them here.

Jan
£1000
£1200
£1440
£1728
Feb
£2073.60
£2488.32
£2985.98
£3583.18
Mar
£4299.81
£5159.78
£6191.73
£7430.08
April
£8916.10
£10699.32
£12839.18
£15407.02
May
£18488.42
£22186.11
£26623.33
£31947.99
June
£38337.59
£46005.11
£55206.14
£66247.37
July
£79496.84
£95396.21
£114475.45
£137370.55
August
£164844.66
£197813.59
£237376.31
£284851.57
September
£341821.89
£410186.27
£492223.52
£590668.22
October
£708801.87
£850562.24
£1020674.69

By the end of the year, the total amount would be £6319748.71.

Now!

I am a realistic person, and am bracing myself for a bubble popping. I know trading doesn't occur EVERY single week, and some losses are to be expected but it's mostly the idea of compounding profits, whilst maintaining profit/risk ratios. As I am not yet a consistent, experienced trader, and am mostly learning things using demo accounts and online resources, as well as the forums here, and know there's far more to learn once REAL money is being used, I would like to pose this idea to any experienced trader who has any thoughts on the idea, if they already do this, or why it simply would not work, and why not. At the moment it seems like an excellent motivation to become consistent, and skillful.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about 4% but 2.849% is achievable in my opinion:p
You have to consider number of trades as well. in the last 6 months i have had a losing week but its unusual and I put that down to trading fairly regularly...about 3 trades a day. Losing days are however quite regular.....traders here are right, you have a losing trade and its quite difficult to stick to your guns....YOU must get the better of your own psych.
You also need to either have a system or be systematic....i have often pondered what the differnece is.......if you ever work this out let me know!
I feel that if you trade say one a week you will never make it. But as Trader Dante says anything and everything can be confirmed or disproved in trading, depends on whose doing the trading.

And yes there are some right nutters on here.
 
kugan said:
Just an idea, not sure if it's an old one, or a naive one but I'd like to hear some thoughts on it. I'm new to trading, and am still learning the ropes but I was thinking about this possibility, perhaps as a goal to work towards in terms of consistency and skill.

Are there any traders here who can consistently grow their accounts by 4% in a day? This doesn't seem like too huge a figure... am I wrong? If you can do this all 5 days of the week, and get a 20% profit at the end of it, regularly, great.

If you start with £1000, and can make 4%, £40 a day, at the end of the week the account has grown 20% to £1200. If, using the same risk/profit ratios you used to get that £40 a day were kept in place and applied to the larger, £1200 account, and you continued to compound profits whilst keeping in place the profit/risk ratios you use, am I right in thinking that it would take less than a year to reach £1million? I'm sure if you're experienced traders you'd all be able to calculate the figures yourselves, but for my excitement I like to watch the numbers grow (week by week) and so will post them here.

Jan
£1000
£1200
£1440
£1728
Feb
£2073.60
£2488.32
£2985.98
£3583.18
Mar
£4299.81
£5159.78
£6191.73
£7430.08
April
£8916.10
£10699.32
£12839.18
£15407.02
May
£18488.42
£22186.11
£26623.33
£31947.99
June
£38337.59
£46005.11
£55206.14
£66247.37
July
£79496.84
£95396.21
£114475.45
£137370.55
August
£164844.66
£197813.59
£237376.31
£284851.57
September
£341821.89
£410186.27
£492223.52
£590668.22
October
£708801.87
£850562.24
£1020674.69

By the end of the year, the total amount would be £6319748.71.

Now!

I am a realistic person, and am bracing myself for a bubble popping. I know trading doesn't occur EVERY single week, and some losses are to be expected but it's mostly the idea of compounding profits, whilst maintaining profit/risk ratios. As I am not yet a consistent, experienced trader, and am mostly learning things using demo accounts and online resources, as well as the forums here, and know there's far more to learn once REAL money is being used, I would like to pose this idea to any experienced trader who has any thoughts on the idea, if they already do this, or why it simply would not work, and why not. At the moment it seems like an excellent motivation to become consistent, and skillful.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi Kugan,

I think that most traders, starting out, look at the market as a cash register or annuity that can be used based on the supply of money being constantly increased (4% per day). In my experience, trading doesn't work this way. Trading is more of a psychological or behavioral endeavor than producing a regular ROI, IMHO.

I work to be a good trader ( good trading efficiency, good decisions, even tempered, etc.) rather than produce a given return each day. Some days my returns are large, some days they are small negative. At the end of each day I look at my results and ask myself, "Did I trade well today"? If I traded well, had a plan and stuck to it, and broke even, to me that was a good day given the current market conditions. Then there are days when I made a lot of money, but had no plan. To me that is the riskiest circumstance, because it leads to false beliefs and ultimately leads to the car going over the cliff.

My advice to you is to forget about generating an consistent 4% each day, because trading does not work that way. Figure out a way to become a good trader who has mastered the emotional and psychological and behavioral aspects of trading and you will be better off in the long run. To me trading is about those three aspects. The money - large or small - is the result of mastery of E, P & B.

The above serves me well, but it only my opinion.
 
4 % Daily Return

kugan said:
Just an idea, not sure if it's an old one, or a naive one but I'd like to hear some thoughts on it. I'm new to trading, and am still learning the ropes but I was thinking about this possibility, perhaps as a goal to work towards in terms of consistency and skill.

Are there any traders here who can consistently grow their accounts by 4% in a day? This doesn't seem like too huge a figure... am I wrong? If you can do this all 5 days of the week, and get a 20% profit at the end of it, regularly, great.

If you start with £1000, and can make 4%, £40 a day, at the end of the week the account has grown 20% to £1200. If, using the same risk/profit ratios you used to get that £40 a day were kept in place and applied to the larger, £1200 account, and you continued to compound profits whilst keeping in place the profit/risk ratios you use, am I right in thinking that it would take less than a year to reach £1million? I'm sure if you're experienced traders you'd all be able to calculate the figures yourselves, but for my excitement I like to watch the numbers grow (week by week) and so will post them here.

Jan
£1000
£1200
£1440
£1728
Feb
£2073.60
£2488.32
£2985.98
£3583.18
Mar
£4299.81
£5159.78
£6191.73
£7430.08
April
£8916.10
£10699.32
£12839.18
£15407.02
May
£18488.42
£22186.11
£26623.33
£31947.99
June
£38337.59
£46005.11
£55206.14
£66247.37
July
£79496.84
£95396.21
£114475.45
£137370.55
August
£164844.66
£197813.59
£237376.31
£284851.57
September
£341821.89
£410186.27
£492223.52
£590668.22
October
£708801.87
£850562.24
£1020674.69

By the end of the year, the total amount would be £6319748.71.

Now!

I am a realistic person, and am bracing myself for a bubble popping. I know trading doesn't occur EVERY single week, and some losses are to be expected but it's mostly the idea of compounding profits, whilst maintaining profit/risk ratios. As I am not yet a consistent, experienced trader, and am mostly learning things using demo accounts and online resources, as well as the forums here, and know there's far more to learn once REAL money is being used, I would like to pose this idea to any experienced trader who has any thoughts on the idea, if they already do this, or why it simply would not work, and why not. At the moment it seems like an excellent motivation to become consistent, and skillful.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The reason that a 4 % daily return is unrealistic is not because the opportunity is not there. On the platform I use to trade, I have access to 38 currency pairs, each of which has an average daily price range of at least 100 points. The EUR, for example, has an ADPR vs USD of about 140 points. With a $ 1,500 account balance and using 1 % leverage, I can trade one EUR / USD standard lot. In order to make a 4 % daily return, I need to capture 6 points of the ADPR of 140 points. Doesn't sound difficult but the reason that the overwhelming number of traders don't succeed is because they haven't refined their skills to the point where they can identify profitable opportunities and act on them. That usually takes a lot of time reading charts and improving your powers of perception.
 
The reason that a 4 % daily return is unrealistic is not because the opportunity is not there. On the platform I use to trade, I have access to 38 currency pairs, each of which has an average daily price range of at least 100 points. The EUR, for example, has an ADPR vs USD of about 140 points. With a $ 1,500 account balance and using 1 % leverage, I can trade one EUR / USD standard lot. In order to make a 4 % daily return, I need to capture 6 points of the ADPR of 140 points. Doesn't sound difficult but the reason that the overwhelming number of traders don't succeed is because they haven't refined their skills to the point where they can identify profitable opportunities and act on them. That usually takes a lot of time reading charts and improving your powers of perception.
 
ok , so what is a realistic return on an account starting with 1000 pounds.........for example using a spread betting account which allows 50p per point bets.

reward/risk 2:1

average win rate of 40%

every time you double your account you double your bet size (starting with 50p) ......how long would it take to get up to the million ?
 
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